Hypertuned/Resonant

Is there any lore to support what each of these states does for the recipents? It's possible I overlooked something in the MSQ, but all I have are assumptions.

Obviously Resonance is a Garlean copy of the Echo, though there's precious little information on how they might have imparted that sort of ability to someone in the first place.

Hypertune I assume is what the failed experiments/people who weren't strong enough of will? But it's clearly intended to be an upgrade in combat ability just the same. I'd question how exactly, though. Grynewaht was already rediculously strong and reckless before his procedure, the only difference I could see was that he became mentally unhinged.

Can anyone shed some light or are there no real sources yet?

There's unfortunately precious little information about both, but I think one will end up being more important than the other. I think we can just boil down Hypertuned to augmented Garleans, either through high exposure to cerulean (the backbone to Garlean technology), like what we seem to see in Castrum Abania with the Hypertuned in the pods, or implants (what seems to be what happened with Grynewaht in Doma Castle). Pure conjecture at this point.

Resonance seems to be something altogether different from or perhaps an offshoot to the Echo. Echo gives us the ability to at least somewhat converse with Hydalaen as well as complete immunity to the brainwashing effects of other primals, alongside the ability to seem to attune to different job crystals. Resonance, however, seems to be exclusively combat focused, giving the wielder Sharingan-ish abilities of prediction, enhanced combat power, and, at least through Zenos, the ability to fuse to and dominate the will of a primal. Both Echo and Resonance seem to be based around aether though, which, honestly, seems like just a catch-all for a-wizard-did-it juice.

I think the process of Hypertuned is newer but still relatively safe. We see Grynewaht thrown to the experiment to become Hypertuned without a second thought on Yotsuyu's part, and we see far more Hypertuned than Resonant. The implications of the procedure to become a Resonant do seem to imply a much higher risk, as when discussing with Fordola about her failure and the option to reach new powers, the underlying implications seem to indicate a low success rate, moreso that they had never done the procedure on a Ala Mhigan.

They're both new things introduced in Stormblood, so I don't think we have a lot to go off of just yet. I'll bet it'll be explored more in the next couple patches.

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Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

Resonance seems to be something altogether different from or perhaps an offshoot to the Echo. Echo gives us the ability to at least somewhat converse with Hydalaen as well as complete immunity to the brainwashing effects of other primals, alongside the ability to seem to attune to different job crystals. Resonance, however, seems to be exclusively combat focused, giving the wielder Sharingan-ish abilities of prediction, enhanced combat power, and, at least through Zenos, the ability to fuse to and dominate the will of a primal. Both Echo and Resonance seem to be based around aether though, which, honestly, seems like just a catch-all for a-wizard-did-it juice.

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We've never seen or heard of Krile or Arenvald talking with Hydaelyn, have we? I think that's a component of the Blessing of Hydaelyn, separate from the Echo.

As for the second point, Urianger explains it as letting Fordola preempt any attacks from any combat style, even ones she's never seen before. To me, that seems like a lore explanation for AoE markers more than anything. Zenos also suggests that we have the power to control primals like he can, asking if we're simply immune to tempering, or if we're immune because our influence is greater than theirs.

There is precious little information on the subject beyond Resonance (or more specifically the Resonant Echo) being an artificial copy of the Echo. The only thing we have is an unclear memory of Krile's.

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Originally Posted by Krile, "The Legacy of Our Fathers"

[Creating a Resonant] entails... the m-mechanical extraction and transfusion of some manner of... primordial essence.

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The simplest solution I can come up with is that Hypertuned are those who failed to achieve Resonance. "Tuning" is a mechanical / musical term, as is "resonating." Hypertuned, then, would just be subjects who were given the same procedure as Resonant but failed to properly achieve the desired effect. There is still a marked increase in combat ability, but a lack of the combat prescience and ability to dominate the will of a primal / eikon. We also know that the process of creating a Resonant can fail, as Zenos tells Fordola trying to obtain it could cost her life.

The cybernetics... may or may not have been Grynewaht's idea. My current guesses are that they're a part of Hypertuning (though the Hypertuned we see in Castrum Abania do not have such augmentations, theirs may be more... discreet, for want of a better term), they were forced on him for his repeated failures, or he willingly got those augs in addition to being Hypertuned. He was dangerously obsessed with defeating us, so that he would go to such lengths wouldn't surprise me.

I asked about it in the PAX West question thread. Hopefully that, and the query on Inferno, are answered.

Honestly I think its unclear. Resonant seems to mean artificial Echo but Hypertuned could just mean supersoldier. Most Hypertuned enemies we face are augmented physically rather than Aesthetically from what we can see. I would not be surprised to see a Doma castle HM with us heading down into the labs under the castle after the waters recede during the patches.

I heard it pointed out in a live letter and had a look in game to conferm: Inferno seems to have the third Garlean eye.....

It is, admittedly, very uncertain. There is no buildup or explanation for Hyptertuned enemies beyond an Imperial soldier telling Yotsuyu they had performed a "procedure" on Grynewaht "as Lord Aulus instructed." Other than that and the Journal and Mock-up Grynewaht minion making it clear he has extensive cybernetic augmentations, absolutely nothing about Hypertuning is explained in-game.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I heard it pointed out in a live letter and had a look in game to conferm: Inferno seems to have the third Garlean eye.....

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If it weren't for that third eye, Inferno could easily be written off as just some horrific, cybernetically enhanced genetic monstrosity made by Aulus or whatever. But that third eye raises a lot of questions...

One of the NPCs prior to flooding the Palace comments that it might be for the best since there are rumors of terrible experiments being done in the lower parts of the Castle. I also get the feeling Grynewaht didn't get much say in his fate. He seemed pretty suicidal at the end and prior to that he had been an outright coward, running away at the first sign of loss. I actually felt sorry for him. He was a jerk but I didn't think he deserved that.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

One of the NPCs prior to flooding the Palace comments that it might be for the best since there are rumors of terrible experiments being done in the lower parts of the Castle. I also get the feeling Grynewaht didn't get much say in his fate. He seemed pretty suicidal at the end and prior to that he had been an outright coward, running away at the first sign of loss. I actually felt sorry for him. He was a jerk but I didn't think he deserved that.

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He's apparently closer to braindead than suicidally angry in JP. I'll be mad if Yotsuyu gets a redemption arc just because of what happened to him under her watch.

So it's mostly as I thought, then. We can only speculate (though said speculation going on here intrigues me). I had missed that line from Krile though. I wonder what kind of 'primordial essence' was being used, since I assume it's not all thanks to them having gotten their paws on Shinryu. I assume as much since I can only assume Zenos was already possessed of Resonance when we first met him.

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Originally Posted by Cenerae

I had missed that line from Krile though. I wonder what kind of 'primordial essence' was being used, since I assume it's not all thanks to them having gotten their paws on Shinryu. I assume as much since I can only assume Zenos was already possessed of Resonance when we first met him.

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My current hypothesis is that Krile was captured and used to create the Resonant by extracting bits of her soul and transfusing them into whoever they wanted to achieve Resonance. There has to be some specific reason they went after Krile and held her where and as long as they did. This does invalidate the "Hypertuned are just failed Resonants" hypothesis, but I'm fine with that.

My current hypothesis is that Zenos achieved Resonance either shortly before or after Fordola did; he did not display the abilities he has in Ala Mhigo during our battles at Rhalgr's Reach or Yuzuka Manor and has two Resonant Eyes instead of just one like Fordola. The battle at Yuzuka Manor is more important for this - he has Ame-no-Habakiri there as well, but never uses Art of the Sword...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

My current hypothesis is that Krile was captured and used to create the Resonant by extracting bits of her soul and transfusing them into whoever they wanted to achieve Resonance. There has to be some specific reason they went after Krile and held her where and as long as they did. This does invalidate the "Hypertuned are just failed Resonants" hypothesis, but I'm fine with that.

My current hypothesis is that Zenos achieved Resonance either shortly before or after Fordola did; he did not display the abilities he has in Ala Mhigo during our battles at Rhalgr's Reach or Yuzuka Manor and has two Resonant Eyes instead of just one like Fordola. The battle at Yuzuka Manor is more important for this - he has Ame-no-Habakiri there as well, but never uses Art of the Sword...

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He plays with us most of the time. Its worth noting even the first time he faces us he blocks all Ydas attacks with just one hand and shatters Y'shtola's shield.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

My current hypothesis is that Zenos achieved Resonance either shortly before or after Fordola did; he did not display the abilities he has in Ala Mhigo during our battles at Rhalgr's Reach or Yuzuka Manor and has two Resonant Eyes instead of just one like Fordola. The battle at Yuzuka Manor is more important for this - he has Ame-no-Habakiri there as well, but never uses Art of the Sword...

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I find that a little difficult to accept, considering in the first encounter he barely considers us worth putting any effort into fighting...and the second time, we're only interesting enough to him for him to want to see what his new toy is like.

We weren't worthy opponents in his eyes, so he was barely trying (and still kicked our butts six ways to sunday). It's not until we fight him in Ala Mhigo that he actually fights us seriously, although I do question why he didn't use his Resonance against us there.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

[Zenos] plays with us most of the time. Its worth noting even the first time he faces us he blocks all Ydas [Lyse's, sic] attacks with just one hand and shatters Y'shtola's shield.

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Originally Posted by Cenerae

I find that a little difficult to accept, considering in the first encounter [Zenos] barely considers us worth putting any effort into fighting...and the second time, we're only interesting enough to him for him to want to see what his new toy is like.

We weren't worthy opponents in his eyes, so he was barely trying (and still kicked our butts six ways to sunday). It's not until we fight him in Ala Mhigo that he actually fights us seriously, although I do question why he didn't use his Resonance against us there.

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The ultimate point is that while Zenos is an overwhelming opponent in all instances (even our final bout is 4 on 1), he lacks the combat prescience and magical abilities the Resonant Echo is intended to imbue prior to Ala Mhigo. While it is difficult to hit him during the Rhalgr's Reach duel it is possible, and it's not until you sufficiently press him that he pulls out Ame-no-Habakiri at Yuzuka Manor and summarily rips you to shreds. All throughout he shows no supernatural or magical abilities; the best he has is his Unbridled status buff, which is not the same as the Resonant Echo buff Fordola uses and is granted by Ame-no-Habakiri.

Then you get to Ala Mhigo, and Zenos is using sword arts from enchanted katana and making illusory copies of himself.

There's also the fact Krile was captured sometime during our adventure in Doma; implicitly after our showdown with Zenos at Yuzuka Manor and before our return to Eorzea. As I sincerely believe they needed Krile (or an Echo user, any Echo user would do) to make the Resonant, it would be impossible for Zenos, Fordola, or anyone to achieve Resonance beforehand. Something something attuning souls to the same aetherial wavelength as an Echo user's, something something destabilizing a soul's aetherial wavelength so it can attune itself to others on the fly.

It's true that Zenos is just toying with us during our first two duels, but there's no reason to believe or proof to confirm he had the Resonant Echo back then. He could have just as easily been an unparalleled combatant. The most likely reason he doesn't use the Resonant Echo to utterly overwhelm us during our showdown in Ala Mhigo's throne room is that doing so would make the fight laughably one-sided on his part, and Zenos cared more about getting a good fight out of it than winning.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

My current hypothesis is that Krile was captured and used to create the Resonant by extracting bits of her soul and transfusing them into whoever they wanted to achieve Resonance. There has to be some specific reason they went after Krile and held her where and as long as they did. This does invalidate the "Hypertuned are just failed Resonants" hypothesis, but I'm fine with that.

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I think it was simply pragmatism - 1.0 made it clear most people awoken to the Echo actually hide their powers fearing persecution from ignorant people (not entirely unjustified either as it turns out), which is why Minfilia set up the Path of the Twelve before the Calamity to provide a sanctuary from persecution for those with the Echo and to research it's powers (so as to better educate Eorzeans). Most of the Path's members were sadly lost in the Calamity or not long thereafter (as a significant number were adventurers), which is why Minfilia reorganized it into the Scions of the Seventh Dawn.

Apart from Minfilia, the only known Scion after the Calamity to have the Echo until Krile was introduced was the player/Warrior of Light, everyone else in the Scions were either just random adventurers who joined after inspired by their success or the Archons (unless you count Una Tayuun and her friends Percevains and Satzfloh who were originally in the Path of the Twelve before the Calamity and rejoined after as Scions suffering amnesia, only to be killed sadly ironically during Livia's attack on the Waking Sands).

And given Minfilia's... ascension... and the Warrior of Light is a very hard man/woman to find at the best of times given our transient nature (and Zenos was more interested in us being a challenger to fight rather than a test subject anyway), it left the Empire with only one remaining possible known Echo user subject that they could easily capture: Krile (which is somewhat ironic given Krile's Echo ability is rather low).

So basically the Empire used Krile as their Echo power lab rat simply as they had no one else, it was pure pragmatism. Of course that doesn't make it any less horrible though.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

And given Minfilia's... ascension... and the Warrior of Light is a very hard man/woman to find at the best of times given our transient nature (and Zenos was more interested in us being a challenger to fight rather than a test subject anyway), it left the Empire with only one remaining possible known Echo user subject that they could easily capture: Krile (which is somewhat ironic given Krile's Echo ability is rather low).

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Also Arenvald, but I grant that the Empire might not know that Arenvald had the Echo. In fact, that's probably the case; Krile was specifically targeted during the mission she was kidnapped in, while Arenvald was specifically incapacitated due to (ironically) an Echo vision, of Fordola's past. Also I think it was implied that as low as Krile's Echo powers are, Arenvald's is even lower.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

So basically the Empire used Krile as their Echo power lab rat simply as they had no one else, it was pure pragmatism. Of course that doesn't make it any less horrible though.

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The point I was getting at was that Zenos needed an Echo user. It was unlikely to be personal against Krile, but Aulus needed an Echo user to try his procedure and Krile was simply the easiest one for Zenos to get his hands on.

I'm in agreement that Hypertuned and Resonant have little in common aside from the scientist in charge (who remains one one of my top three suspects for Elidibus's meatsuit, though the Ala Mhigo dialog doesn't seem to fit). The hypertuned seem ... well, as their name suggests, extraordinarily reinforced. Stuffed full of surgical enhancements and drug cocktails. Super-soldier experiments turned into bioweapons. Qyburn with access to an Umbrella lab. (The minion at the very least confirmed he was implanted with magitek.)

The Resonant, meanwhile, seem to be focused on giving the Garleans what they lack - magickal talents - even if it means transfusing the spiritual aether of savages to get there. The laboratories themselves are focused on Resonance, and (much like with the Sahagin elder) it's easy to pick up a few traces of Elidibus's words along the way. But I suspect that Zenos had perhaps tested magickal transfusions before Krile was abducted, and became Resonant after capturing her.

After seeing Zenos wielding what looked like Dark magicks in the trailer, I kept a keen eye on any abilities that seemed out of place for a Garlean and any hint of an Ascian connection. I was all ready to pat myself on the back for seeing it coming when Zenos motioned to the throne and a figure in white stepped out from behind it ... but then it was just Aulus, lol. (UNLESS...!) Recall that he comments that Y'shtola's magicks can't keep him out, and in Doma infuses multiple blades with magicks, not just the Ame-no-Habakiri. (This was before Fordola even delivered Krile.)

While Zenos specifically demands Krile captured (basing his assumptions about the Echo on Baelsar's notes and likely Elidibus's intervention), I can't say whether any old Echo user would have done the same or if she specifically had a desired effect. After all, the Resonant are often focused on seeing aether, which is how Krile reacted when awakening to the Echo.

I also squint inquisitively at that the symbol in the eye has twelve points.

We don't even fully understand the limits of the Echo yet. Maybe Garlean superscience will give us some more details in the coming patches. I find it odd that no one seems to be studying the Echo. Even the Scions seem content to just use it rather then try and master it.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

The battle at Yuzuka Manor is more important for this - he has Ame-no-Habakiri there as well, but never uses Art of the Sword...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Then you get to Ala Mhigo, and Zenos is using sword arts from enchanted katana and making illusory copies of himself.

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Still catching up, but I want to point out this wrong--Ala Mhigo isn't the first time he uses these attacks against us. "The Time Between the Seconds" i.e. our match vs Zenos in Yanxia, he displays all of these characteristics. In fact the very first thing he does after unsheathing Ame-no-Habakiri is use "Art of the Sword!" His illusory copies are even called "Dark Reflections" and can be defeated in this solo instance.
Even in Rhalgr's Reach he's using Vein Splitter, calling down copies of swords (both the Storm and the Swell, actually) and what-not. Whether these are used via aether or not is, again, debatable, but honestly it feels that way. Gaius just kind of dropped some flaming ceruleum on the ground and used Terminus Est. Regula used Terminus Est and deployed turrets, iirc (his Ceruleum Servant is a whole 'nother can of worms, but I digress)

Vein Splitter, in particular, calls to mind of Nael van Darnus' initial use of Thermionic Beam in 1.1x; which was our original clue that she was no longer bound by the Garlean's genetic aetheric deficiencies. In this case he shoots a great blast from Bradamante which causes aether to erupt from the ground and severs an Aetherial vein. This is a very shoddy ground to argue that Zenos already has the Resonant procedure as of 4.0, but I suspect that Fordola probably wasn't Aulus' first run regardless. Given Zenos' big speech about wondering if Fordola was strong enough to survive the procedure I have no doubt he underwent Resonant procedure twice and that helps serve his proof as "I'm super tough guys."

Something that needs to be pointed out, I feel, is that Krile has something rather unique to her (in terms of NPC): she has the Blessing of Light. Whether Garlemald or Aulus knew this is debatable but it's a key difference between, like, her and Arenvald.

Personally, with very little evidence to help me, my headcanon is that the Resonant probably manifests as differently as the Echo (being that it's all but certainly an artificial version of it). We know that some Echo-users can't walk in the memories of others, and some can't listen to the whispers of a person's soul (omnilinguism)--that is, unless this has been retconned since 1.0 which is something I feel Moose might know better than I. It's possible that Zenos' Resonant didn't allow the 'anti-Echo' seeing of the future or something. I feel like we'll learn more as time goes on--I hope anyways. It's just as likely too, I feel, that Zenos' Resonant did allow him to predict his opponents attacks or something but maybe he decided against using it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by Rocl

Still catching up, but I want to point out this wrong--Ala Mhigo isn't the first time he uses these attacks against us. "The Time Between the Seconds" i.e. our match vs Zenos in Yanxia, he displays all of these characteristics. In fact the very first thing he does after unsheathing Ame-no-Habakiri is use "Art of the Sword!" His illusory copies are even called "Dark Reflections" and can be defeated in this solo instance.

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You're right; it's been a long while since I did that fight, so the fine details escape me. Thank you for jogging my memory. (I'm not perfect, c'mon...)

Ehh... well, Zenos' ability to use magicks at Yuzuka Manor may be attributed to the original intent of Aulus' research: imbuing Garleans with the ability to wield magicks. Fordola specifically notes that such a treatment would be useless on her since she's not a Garlean, but Zenos explains that's not what was done to her and that the ability to wield magicks pales in comparison. We don't see anything else.

Ultimately there's not really enough information to draw a conclusion. Did Zenos have Aulus modify him so he could wield magicks prior to our bout in Ala Mhigo? (Probably, because I faintly recall some lighting swords raining down on us back in Rhalgr's Reach.) Was the Resonant Echo responsible for his ability to wield magicks? (Unlikely.) Why did they need an Echo user to make Resonants? What's the connection between Hyptertuning and the Resonant Echo, if any? What is Hypertuning?

I hope all these questions are answered at some point.

I don't think the sword arts used by zenos are magic really but unique to the swords themselves... otherwise why use multiple swords? They made a huge deal about finding the one sword which was a power up of sorts for zenos and his abilities... the resonance let him overcome shinryu and merge with it (perhaps exhorting his will over the primal which in turn fused with zenos on command)... also why.didn't we take the damn sword with us after he killed himself? As a Sam main I was like... ma new sword, awwww...

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

I don't think the sword arts used by zenos are magic really but unique to the swords themselves... otherwise why use multiple swords?

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Ame-no-Habakiri is all but assuredly a magicked sword, though I question whether a normal Garlean could bring out its potential. If a Garlean could make use of enchanted items, would their aetherial limitations be such a major obstacle? They'd theoretically only need to conquer one aetherially-adept culture and force them to churn out magicked equipment for them to harness. Though, in 1.0, when Darnus channeled magicks through Bradamante, the VIIth was flabbergasted.

As for why so many swords, Yoshida addressed this in a LIVE Letter not too long ago. Zenos gained an appreciation for the katana while fighting in the eastern theatre. However, real katanas in actual combat degrade very quickly. Zenos carries several katanas so he can endure prolonged combat; when a sword dulls or breaks, he tosses it aside and takes up another. He also joked that the multi-scabbard is designed primarily to look cool but maybe there's a little switch Zenos flicks to make it spin.

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Originally Posted by Grayve

We don't even fully understand the limits of the Echo yet. Maybe Garlean superscience will give us some more details in the coming patches. I find it odd that no one seems to be studying the Echo. Even the Scions seem content to just use it rather then try and master it.

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Well, those on the Isle of Val were researching the Echo...before the Isle was blasted into oblivion, with only Krile surviving. They definitely found something that made the Ascians throw an Ultima-like spell at it.

I do agree that it seems like the Echo is going to be a prominent feature in the coming patches

Upon looking at the skill meditate it seems that's what zenos does before unleashing certain attacks so he's building up kenki for those attacks... and probably sen too if any kinda logic is to be followed... and kugane castle shows us even inanimate object can use kenki as an offensive measure... zenos is probably doing the same

I think Zenos is a resonant from the first moment you see him.

"But when I read van Baelsar's reports, I immediately saw the boundless potential of the Echo. I saw how it could be instrumental in binding an eikon to one's will. Hence my research and the Resonant - and oh so much more!"
- Zenos

It's made clear through dialogue that Aulus started out as a geneticist - his original proposal was to "modify the Garlean genome" to correct what he sees as the one flaw in the otherwise-superior-in-every-way Garlean race - their inability to wield aether. He was unable to find anyone in Garlemald willing to support his work, until he met Zenos.

Now, why Zenos chose to support Aulus is not 100% clear - either he had read the reports already by the time they met and presumably saw an avenue to achieving his goal of conferring the Echo upon one who was not born with it, or he supported Aulus simply as a path to greater strength and then read the reports later and changed the focus of the research.

Either way, under Zenos, it's clear that specifically the Echo rather than merely the ability to wield aether became the goal of the research. At some point after beginning work, Aulus invents the soul transfusion concept and abandons genetic modification as a path to achieving this goal. His early work lives on however (and possibly continues to progress under a different research team), and while he was not able to genetically confer magical ability, some of his modifications were found to be useful in... other ways, the hypertuned being the result. The magitek implantation may be a later development of the hypertuned or it may be another of Aulus' abandoned research paths. Certainly it's conceivable that magitek implantation would be a potential path to explore with regards to making a Garlean able to wield magic.

Rewatching the cutscene where Fordola wakes up after receiving the resonance treatment, it's clear that Aulus' laboratory is not substantially integrated into the surrounding structure, and it's also not something Gaius would have allowed when he was viceroy (i.e. up 'til the end of 2.0), so it definitely looks like it was constructed in or moved to Ala Mhigo recently.
On the other hand, there are dozens of bodies of presumably failed test subjects placed around the floor, so it seems equally unlikely that all of these are a result of attempted transfusions using the recently-captured Krile.

I would conclude that the laboratory was set up shortly after Zenos became viceroy and has been operating for some time, Krile merely being its newest Echo source. Echo users are not all that rare, and certainly some would have been born in the annexed territories of Ilsabard or Othard, being far more accessible. It's also well noted that the Echo manifests in multiple ways and conceivable both that Aulus would want to collect as complete a set as possible and that Krile's form was not one they had already.

As for Zenos himself, if the lab has been around for some time (and the research itself even longer), then I'd doubt he only becomes a Resonant after capturing Krile. His strength doesn't really appear to change throughout the course of Stormblood (yours simply grows to match his) whereas we would expect a significant jump in power if he suddenly gained Echo-like abilities. The specific way in which he is described as having (effortlessly) slaughtered anyone who tried to fight him during the Doman campaign is also reminiscent of an Echo user.

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Originally Posted by Singularity

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I can see the possibility that Zenos had these powers longer than it seemed like, as well; that the narrative was just holding back the surprise by beating around the bush. There are just a few things I can't make work with it (yet) and thus prioritized (Occam-wise) the interpretation that it was more recent for the time being. In order from least problematic to most:

First; I don't recall any precedent for Echo-blessed originating outside of Eorzea in this Calamity cycle (YET). What little lore we have about Echo-ex-Eorzea suggests that its appearance is relatively localized to the area being used to create the Calamity; the Zodiac Braves consolidated within Thavnairian legend, for example (assuming this wasn't itself a Thavnairian account of an Eorzean event, which is too big a leap to take unbidden).

The Echo sounded right around the Battle of Silvertear Skies, where there were many witnesses to a starshower over Eorzea; this same starshower is seen in a vision when someone new is awoken. The farthest away we can make a case for so far is Sharlayan, where the Echo was identified in Krile in 1567 (5 years after Silvertear Skies and the exodus from Eorzea). Even then, she was in an orphanage off the mainland at the time and we have no idea where she came from. Counterpoint, we have Ascians working in the Far East; She should choose Far Easterners to combat their influence.

Second; Lahabrea seems to have been the one that clued Gaius van Baelsar into how the Warrior of Light consistently fared so well against primals, seeing as it was Gaius who dispatched Livia to capture the Warrior of Light for study and Lahabrea who teleported her into the Waking Sands to complete her mission (where she failed, but took Miniflia, a different Walker, as a consolation prize). If so, that provides us a clear time-table for when Gaius's reports would include the information that sparked Zenos's interest.

Except Gaius was rogue; would he have been sending reports home or just keeping his own records? Given the timeline as we know it (war of succession, Doman rebellion, consolidation of Varis's power all completely finished before 2.1 was over), it's possible that the Emperor died earlier and Gaius just didn't know; that his notes were found by Zenos after arriving in Ala Mhigo to take over (making you wonder just how long Elidibus and Varis had been speaking, but that's a whole other can of worms).

This would not give Zenos very long to comprehend all the facts on the ground, realize the Echo's potential (which is interestingly in line with his father's way of thinking since 3.0; primal enslavement rather than primal annihilation), tap Aulus for advancement, get functioning prototypes up and running in Gyr Abania, and capture his first Walker all before 3.57.

Third, and most problematic, if Zenos was already Resonant, I don't understand the rush to kidnap Krile Baldesion. The best I can tell so far, the capture of Shinryu sped up his time-table. After Yugiri's botched assassination, Zenos is informed that Shinryu has been found - helpless, shacked by Omega. He immediately deprioritizes Doma (claiming that is "obligations" have been fulfilled), leaves Yotsuyu to fend for herself, and heads off to claim the primal prize. While the Warrior of Light wins command of the Xaela and lays siege to Doma, Zenos specifically and deliberately orchestrates the abduction of Krile, yet he doesn't offer Fordola transcendence until after the Scions return from Doma and press past Castellum Velodyna. What then was the rush, if not that he wanted to be able to control Shinryu for himself as soon as possible, but couldn't do so without a Walker to receive a transfusion from?

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Ame-no-Habakiri is all but assuredly a magicked sword, though I question whether a normal Garlean could bring out its potential. If a Garlean could make use of enchanted items, would their aetherial limitations be such a major obstacle? They'd theoretically only need to conquer one aetherially-adept culture and force them to churn out magicked equipment for them to harness. Though, in 1.0, when Darnus channeled magicks through Bradamante, the VIIth was flabbergasted.

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While possible, I see this more of an example of a combination of ignorance and arrogance than definitive proof that Garleans can't utilized enchanted items. Few in the Empire even believe that savages would be capable of creating such items - and for those in the know, why would they bother with these trinkets when Garlean technology can provide all the benefits and more? It wouldn't be the first time in history that a belligerent nation has turned away a technological advantage due to prejudice and racism.

Zenos, on the other hand, is a bit more pragmatic when it comes to magical items (at least, when they are katana), and has no pride issues about using their magic in combat.

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As for why so many swords, Yoshida addressed this in a LIVE Letter not too long ago. Zenos gained an appreciation for the katana while fighting in the eastern theatre. However, real katanas in actual combat degrade very quickly. Zenos carries several katanas so he can endure prolonged combat; when a sword dulls or breaks, he tosses it aside and takes up another. He also joked that the multi-scabbard is designed primarily to look cool but maybe there's a little switch Zenos flicks to make it spin.

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While Zenos wields katana because he thinks they're neat, it's also stated that he's a COLLECTOR of rare and interesting katana. While he carries several at once, each katana does have special properties that he makes use of in combat. While he no doubt like to have several at hand so that he's never without a weapon when his katana breaks, I don't doubt that he also likes to stock a variety of katana with different effects for different situations.

And yes, everything is better with spinning!

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

While possible, I see this more of an example of a combination of ignorance and arrogance than definitive proof that Garleans can't utilized enchanted items. Few in the Empire even believe that savages would be capable of creating such items - and for those in the know, why would they bother with these trinkets when Garlean technology can provide all the benefits and more? It wouldn't be the first time in history that a belligerent nation has turned away a technological advantage due to prejudice and racism.

Zenos, on the other hand, is a bit more pragmatic when it comes to magical items (at least, when they are katana), and has no pride issues about using their magic in combat.


While Zenos wields katana because he thinks they're neat, it's also stated that he's a COLLECTOR of rare and interesting katana. While he carries several at once, each katana does have special properties that he makes use of in combat. While he no doubt like to have several at hand so that he's never without a weapon when his katana breaks, I don't doubt that he also likes to stock a variety of katana with different effects for different situations.

And yes, everything is better with spinning!

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Ah yes, but also remember, when things spin, science happens! ;)

Hence, I still believe the drum he kept his katana in was some kind of magitek device for infusing the blades with aether, which enhanced their effects, thus in keeping with that trope, and not simply a fancy scabbard for them.

As for blades breaking, although that is indeed true of katana in real life (and even in the FF series itself - it's actually a gameplay element of the SAM Job in FF Tactics using the 'Draw Out' ability, using the ability would often break the katana destroying it completely (thus FFT's SAM was a very expensive Job to use) - I think in this case it was not something that Zenos actually ever had happen to him.

The first time we fought him in Rhalgr's Reach, when he defeats us his katana breaks, and the way the scene was framed, it seemed that it didn't break because of normal wear and tear, it specifically broke because of our power as the Warrior of Light.

The result was that it appeared to hint that we were the first to actually deal damage to him (he defeated a whole unit of Doman samurai during the Doman Insurrection after all apparently without damage to his weapon), and thus he realized we were not like any other enemy he had faced, that this person could actually be potentially a worthy challenger to him (the next battle we faced against him outside Doma we instead broke his helmet).

So Zenos's breaking a blade was not about Garlean superiority over Othardian weapons, it was simply a narrative device to show our potency with the Echo and the power we wield as Hydaelyn's champion.

One of the things that makes me believe there is echo outside of Eorzea is the very first time you meet Hydaelyn. You see many people circling the Mothercrystal, and they have said these are other agents working for her. Since having the echo seems usually a prerequisite to seeing her like that and we aren't literally tripping over hundreds of her agents, I would expect she has them across the world. Certainly it would be strange for her to localise her influence to Eorzea only since the Ascians certainly aren't similarly limited.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

One of the things that makes me believe there is echo outside of Eorzea is the very first time you meet Hydaelyn. You see many people circling the Mothercrystal, and they have said these are other agents working for her. Since having the echo seems usually a prerequisite to seeing her like that and we aren't literally tripping over hundreds of her agents, I would expect she has them across the world. Certainly it would be strange for her to localise her influence to Eorzea only since the Ascians certainly aren't similarly limited.

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To be fair, we kind of ARE literally tripping over hundreds of her agents. There are THOUSANDS of player characters in the game, and in a player hotspot you could easily see as many of them as there were floating around the crystal in that opening scene. Those player characters (along with a handful of NPCs) are her agents.

There may be only one Warrior of Light (you), but the other player characters in the game are part of the lore, as well. NPCs comment on the many adventurers frequently.

This does not discount the possibility that there may be agents outside of Eorzea, though. However, it IS the case that Eorzea is special. Aetheric energy is much higher in Eorzea than elsewhere, and that could be why Hydaelyn's efforts are focused there. It could be easier for her in her weakened state, or perhaps it is a more "valuable" conquest for the Ascians and therefore requires a greater degree of protection.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

To be fair, we kind of ARE literally tripping over hundreds of her agents. There are THOUSANDS of player characters in the game, and in a player hotspot you could easily see as many of them as there were floating around the crystal in that opening scene. Those player characters (along with a handful of NPCs) are her agents.

There may be only one Warrior of Light (you), but the other player characters in the game are part of the lore, as well. NPCs comment on the many adventurers frequently.

This does not discount the possibility that there may be agents outside of Eorzea, though. However, it IS the case that Eorzea is special. Aetheric energy is much higher in Eorzea than elsewhere, and that could be why Hydaelyn's efforts are focused there. It could be easier for her in her weakened state, or perhaps it is a more "valuable" conquest for the Ascians and therefore requires a greater degree of protection.

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Most of the comments on other adventurers, especially in SB, are exclusive to the English as a way of poking fun at things. Even then we don't know if the other adventurers are considered agents of Hydaelyn, just that they have the Echo.