Last straw

Have been consistantly turned down for mog battle partys because they are looking for arc only DD... apparently because of the need to avoid AOE attacks.

cant believe its come to this again.. its rediculous lol.

i give up trying to play this game.

Maybe it's just you. I've done hte fight as both conjuror and marauder, at least a dozen times. Granted we didn't win, but still.

You give up because you can't get into one battle while the entire game is being reconstructed? Lol

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Originally Posted by KamikazeMan

You give up because you can't get into one battle while the entire game is being reconstructed? Lol

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i give up because i think i can only expect more of the same

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Originally Posted by nasomi

Maybe it's just you. I've done hte fight as both conjuror and marauder, at least a dozen times. Granted we didn't win, but still.

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Its not just him when the reason you aint winning is because you aint Arc! XD

But it is sad it comes to this, the developers just dont know how to make a well balanced battle lol.

You have GLA50. l2Tank. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Rogue

i give up because i think i can only expect more of the same

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For a while yeah. There are much better MMO games in the market. Perhaps you should play one of those till SE fixes most of whats wrong with this game.

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Originally Posted by Aistaraina

You have GLA50. l2Tank. Problem solved.

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Learn to tank? i presume that means you have summized that i dont take glad because i cant tank?

i can tank very well thanks but the problem is each party only needs ONE gladiator..

and also you have completely missed my point... or just ignored it.

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Originally Posted by viion

But it is sad it comes to this, the developers just dont know how to make a well balanced battle lol.

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This right here sums up endgame very well.

We beat the BC with PGLs, LNCs, and MRDs. /shrug
This is like DH, when people thought it was Archer onry lol

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

This right here sums up endgame very well.

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THere's always going to be something that is stronger than other. The issue is enough content to take advantage and give everyone a strengthness and weakness. Being purely balanced isn't very fun, that means anyone can replace anything.

Any melee can be second tank.

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Originally Posted by nasomi

THere's always going to be something that is stronger than other. The issue is enough content to take advantage and give everyone a strengthness and weakness. Being purely balanced isn't very fun, that means anyone can replace anything.

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Please say this is some kind of joke. SE should be trying to discourage class stacking, not encourage it. We already got 3 endgame events that have that.

Moogle uses 2 gladiators... At least you can!

This battle does not require class stacking at all.

Class stacking is something the community will come up with. If one class has but a slight edge over the others, some LS' will always chose to stack it.

All the DDs are quite balanced at the moment. They are all more than viable for Ifrit. However, a lot of players can't combo and when you're forming a PUG and you're gonna invite a stranger you won't want to put your faith in their ability to do positional combos.

In summary, class stacking in Moogle is nothing like what it was for Ifrit, or even DH. It's a path of least resistance taken by the community.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

This battle does not require class stacking at all.

Class stacking is something the community will come up with. If one class has but a slight edge over the others, some LS' will always chose to stack it.

All the DDs are quite balanced at the moment. They are all more than viable for Ifrit. However, a lot of players can't combo and when you're forming a PUG and you're gonna invite a stranger you won't want to put your faith in their ability to do positional combos.

In summary, class stacking in Moogle is nothing like what it was for Ifrit, or even DH. It's a path of least resistance taken by the community.

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I agree with your point, BUT

this isnt for example, a lancer doing more damage than a pugilist or something like that.. in a pinch people would still be quite happy to take pugs or mrds or whatever was considered "lesser" DD

the point here is that archers are invulnerable to AOE attacks (because of their range obviously) something which SE is very well aware of yet STILL give mobs huge circular AOE attacks..

to sum up, SE could have made those circular AOE attacks single target and there might be a pug/mrd/lnc in the party instead of an archer.. the mob would still be getting hit the same amount of times..

or they could use some imagination like say have donut shaped AOE AND circular AOE so the archers wouldnt have an advantage over close range. OR making the mob do single target attacks on random party members... IE there is no benefit to stacking archers

SE allways seem to include needless elements in fights that encourage class stacking, in the case of ifrit people took lancers because they could attack out of range of seer but archers have animations lock... solution- get rid of/replace seer and dont give disadvantages to inbuilt game mechanics like.. "animation lock"

conclusion it isnt the players its the developers, sorry.

in FFXI, it took me 3 years to get Nidhogg, first kill (the other LS wiped) and got the server first NA koeing body. been riding on that high for years lol *sadface*

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Originally Posted by Rogue

I agree with your point, BUT

this isnt for example, a lancer doing more damage than a pugilist or something like that.. in a pinch people would still be quite happy to take pugs or mrds or whatever was considered "lesser" DD

the point here is that archers are invulnerable to AOE attacks (because of their range obviously) something which SE is very well aware of yet STILL give mobs huge circular AOE attacks..

to sum up, SE could have made those circular AOE attacks single target and there might be a pug/mrd/lnc in the party instead of an archer.. the mob would still be getting hit the same amount of times..

or they could use some imagination like say have donut shaped AOE AND circular AOE so the archers wouldnt have an advantage over close range. OR making the mob do single target attacks on random party members... IE there is no benefit to stacking archers

SE allways seem to include needless elements in fights that encourage class stacking, in the case of ifrit people took lancers because they could attack out of range of seer but archers have animations lock... solution- get rid of/replace seer and dont give disadvantages to inbuilt game mechanics like.. "animation lock"

conclusion it isnt the players its the developers, sorry.

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I do agree to this statement in particular in a way. Both ourselves and the developers are equal to blame. Dev's fault for adding in elements that cause stack parties (Lancer on Ifrit for Seer), and ourselves for not willing to make a diverse setup. It is kind of a balance issue there itself. We should learn to be diverse in parties, while Dev's need to give less incentive for stack partying. I don't know what they are thinking when they know this is an issue.

MRD, King, and BLM AoE are hurtful to the point you don't want a close range melee in there. If that was simply toned down a bit, it would still be challenging and ARC wouldn't be as high in demand. ARC still overall does more DPS however, but that is a different issue on balance.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

ARC still overall does more DPS however, but that is a different issue on balance.

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This is another thing that really bothers me about the current system. I don't see any reason why a ranged DD should be able to put up similar or greater numbers than a close ranged DD. If they have the ability to attack from a safe distance, they should do weaker damage.

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Originally Posted by Rogue

I agree with your point, BUT

this isnt for example, a lancer doing more damage than a pugilist or something like that.. in a pinch people would still be quite happy to take pugs or mrds or whatever was considered "lesser" DD

the point here is that archers are invulnerable to AOE attacks (because of their range obviously) something which SE is very well aware of yet STILL give mobs huge circular AOE attacks..

to sum up, SE could have made those circular AOE attacks single target and there might be a pug/mrd/lnc in the party instead of an archer.. the mob would still be getting hit the same amount of times..

or they could use some imagination like say have donut shaped AOE AND circular AOE so the archers wouldnt have an advantage over close range. OR making the mob do single target attacks on random party members... IE there is no benefit to stacking archers

SE allways seem to include needless elements in fights that encourage class stacking, in the case of ifrit people took lancers because they could attack out of range of seer but archers have animations lock... solution- get rid of/replace seer and dont give disadvantages to inbuilt game mechanics like.. "animation lock"

conclusion it isnt the players its the developers, sorry.

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That's why ARCs and THMs are squishy, but close range DDs can take hits.

Point is the classes are balanced. Stacking can never fully be solved, however it can be made so that it isn't obviously encouraged.

They'd have to make bosses more or less inconsequential or entirely scripted to hope to get around it. Imagine the Moogle fight without the AoE attacks. Cake walk.

Point is Moogle has been beaten - smoothly and easily without feeling handicapped - with the presence of all DDs. I'm sorry but, in this case, it's 80%+ the players.

Also keep in mind this type of Full Party content is being made with the release of Jobs in mind. Jobs will be what everyone will be on for endgame content, and they will make a considerable difference.

there must be other ppl out there frustrated they can't get in a party with the class they like. so OP you set up a party for all you misfits

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Originally Posted by grandm

there must be other ppl out there frustrated they can't get in a party with the class they like. so OP you set up a party for all you misfits

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Then you need friends who will want you on your class. Don't believe Dev's can come up with a patch for that issue.

Once again; too bad that the status quo is this way but in all honesty as far as the big picture is concerned there is no reason why ARC's DPS shouldn't be at least equal to other classes. It is designed for soloers while it's grouping counterpart is a buffer with relatively weaker DPS capabilities when compared to other jobs designed for grouping.

Other classes currently in competition will keep primarily expanding their DPS capabilities through Jobs. Archer will branch to become a buffer. That is the intended grouping design. That it is currently used for an activity it was not mainly designed for is too bad but unavoidable unless you wanted to wait for action reforms in 1.21 instead.

You have been playing a placeholder ever since 1.18.

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Originally Posted by nasomi

Maybe it's just you. I've done hte fight as both conjuror and marauder, at least a dozen times. Granted we didn't win, but still.

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lol ..

Well, i can't even get in a group for the pre req NMs cuz nobody wants to. And since i haven't even finished the quest once, the new way of getting stones is worthless for me.

Suggestion:

Try making a party?

Then play an ARC.
You have the freedom to do so.

Some fights are going to be better suited for certain jobs. You need to be able to adapt to whatever situation arises. I'm sure the next primal fight will favor pugilists or something.

Alternatively: Find a linkshell that doesn't care about that stuff and is willing to fight.

Lol these people aren't getting it. You shouldn't have to change your class to something you don't like just because people want you to. I could understand if there were too many healers or too many tanks, but I mean come on, there are never enough DD's (or no more than 6 in our case).

I'm not changing because people ask me to, I'll play what class I want or I'm not gonna do the run

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Originally Posted by viion

Its not just him when the reason you aint winning is because you aint Arc! XD

But it is sad it comes to this, the developers just dont know how to make a well balanced battle lol.

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This. FFXI was so cookie cutter D: Why I ended up stop playing it. I was hoping FFXIV wouldn't be cookie cutter but so far...yeah.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

You shouldn't have to change your class to something you don't like just because people want you to.

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Then expect not to get invited.

People shouldn't have to accept your class just because you're too stubborn to adapt. Class changes aren't even a big deal in this game. It's one of it's biggest selling points.

And even then, you can make your own party or join a casual linkshell. There are ways around this.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Then expect not to get invited.

People shouldn't have to accept your class just because you're too stubborn to adapt. Class changes aren't even a big deal in this game. It's one of it's biggest selling points.

And even then, you can make your own party or join a casual linkshell. There are ways around this.

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No it's not being stubborn, it's going against the norm. Class stacking is a bullcrap excuse for trying to beat a primal fight, and I can't wait till they balance it. I'm tired of class stacking.

Yeah adapting to the situation is important, but adapting to class stacking is stupid.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Class Stacking is stupid

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In any other MMO, I'd agree.
But the fact that you can change classes on the fly makes it a pretty weak complaint to me. You're not bound to one class like with other MMO's.

Need to be an archer in this situation? Be an archer.
Situation calls for a tank? Be a Gladiator.
Need to heal your party? Go for Conjurer.

The only thing stopping you is yourself.

By the by, I hope this doesn't sour my position in Counter Post. I really am a good boy. Honest I am.

So basically you're saying you either play the flavor of the month or get left behind? Yeah, that's sure going to keep the playerbase happy.

I don't really enjoy the class stacking idea either but..... there's a game called World of Warcraft that's been out for awhile that makes any class viable for everything.

The only reason why i haven't raged at the way this games terrible balance is because if you're trying to be the best at your ability you'll end up getting other classes to 50.

The simple solution is to stop making encounters where the enemy uses large and damaging AOE abilities, because this will only lead to ranged units being preferred over melee. I do agree that the community is also to blame. For a community that sees itself better than WoW's and most other MMOs', they're no better with this path of least resistance mentality.

I bet they could wave a sign with a Bard on it in front of your faces and you still wouldn't get the hint.

I hate class stacking, it's the most retarded concept ever. It isn't a concept to "adapt", if i love a class i should'nt be forced by the community (because it's a our problem) to level the OP class just because the internet has spoken.
I always wait the day where SE forces us to bring every class.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

In any other MMO, I'd agree.
But the fact that you can change classes on the fly makes it a pretty weak complaint to me. You're not bound to one class like with other MMO's.

Need to be an archer in this situation? Be an archer.
Situation calls for a tank? Be a Gladiator.
Need to heal your party? Go for Conjurer.

The only thing stopping you is yourself.

By the by, I hope this doesn't sour my position in Counter Post. I really am a good boy. Honest I am.

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However, most of the time in other MMOs, outside of very specific fights and setups, you won't be rejected by 90% of the community because you aren't class X.

Sure, in FFXIV we can change classes, but what you're saying is simply: "Leveled X to cap only to discover no one does endgame on X? Too bad, level up Y or gtfo, we don't want lazy players" which is stupid. All classes should be equally viable on most endgame fights, then people with multiple classes should have an extra advantage due to that fact, instead of the current fights that does "enforce" cookie cutter stacking setups that the community will obviously jump on once discovered.

And no, just because PLing is rampant it doesn't give any excuses to this mentality and the developers should try to balance fights in a way that class stacking isn't so much more effective than everything else.

We have two groups for moogle in our LS, both without ARC tactic. One group has GLA, 2xMRD, 2xARC, 1xTHM, 2xCON, the other 2xGLA, 3xLNC(MRD/PUG sometimes), ARC, 2x CON. Both groups are successfull in beating the encounter. We keep getting questions like "No ARC onry, why? U shtupid?! Wery easy!" - Of course we know that, but we wan't to play what we want with tactics we forged for ourselves, some adjustments are made for sure but we refuse to stick with one setup just because it is branded "the best".

We did this with Ifrit and Oger/Batraal too. There are LS out there who won't force you to play a specific class, your just have to find them... I'm sure you'll find a LS fitting your playstyle! Maybe you should consider joining one of them instead of going with random groups.

I don't understand. Since 1.18 people have been coming on here and complaining about how they can't get into pickup groups with their desired class. Why do you even want to join a pickup group? They're terrible. Make friends and join/make a linkshell to do this stuff with instead.