Is it me, or is the DRK storyline quests the BEST job quests in the game? I haven't explored them all, but I'm blown away with just how good the story was in Heavensward and now in Stormblood. Just wow. Good on you, SE.
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Is it me, or is the DRK storyline quests the BEST job quests in the game? I haven't explored them all, but I'm blown away with just how good the story was in Heavensward and now in Stormblood. Just wow. Good on you, SE.
I agree. Though I haven't done all the job quests (I don't even have MNK or BRD, lol) the deeply personal and introspective nature of the DRK 30-50 and 60-70 lines make them standouts as far as job quests go, or even quests in general. They actually explore the cost of our heroism... and by that I don't mean the people we fight and kill.
The climactic fights are suitably epic as well. Especially the 70 one; I think it might be one of if not the most epic solo player instanced fight in the game right now.
I haven't done 61-70 yet so I can't comment but I found 51-60 boring and really anticlimactic after 1-50 (which is the best job story that I have played so far I agree)
I'm a DRK main because it's my favorite class lorewise. I loved the first arc and liked the second arc okay, I mean how do you follow up THAT? But this third arc blew me away starting with the 65 quest. That was a fun fight and some nice character building for Sid. The next quest was a gut punch. And there's the finale. Yea it probably is the best solo fight. I loved everything about it.
I thought the DRK 30-50 quests were incredible. The 50-60 quests didn't appeal to me as much but the 60-70 quests were wonderful and had the bonus of confirming that the Warrior of Light regrets having to kill the heroes that just happen to be fighting for a different side as well as those who have been broken by a vicious, tragic world. It was great to see that the nuanced aspects of the setting and the clear shades of grey were brought to the forefront there.
Its a bit tricky I think to Judge for me because the thing that makes the DRK quest special, beyond it being well written, is that it is very personal to the WoL in a way no other quest is and is the biggest insight and development for the most important character in the story.
That is why I think it get harder to judge when you add in more qualities. Quests like the MNK quest are very lore rich and get delve into the history and story of Ala Mhigo and in that sense they offer a lot more details on the story of the world. SAM offers a very interesting counterpoint to the overall theme of violent revolution in SB where it argues that such revolution isn't always the best path to change. Some of the Postmoogle quests, while short, are endearing stories like the Keeper who's sister has turned to banditry after being discriminated against. Some of the sidequest chains in HW and SB are very good too giving insight into the issues of culture or personal stories about the people living in the areas.
DRK is amazing though.
I would do these quests just for the story if the class wasn't a tank class x_x
the woman who wrote the DRK quests is also the same that wrote the Nadaam part, which is by far the strongest part of SB imo. They should let her write a lot more.
Compared to the drk quest, Paladins quests feel lazy and deepy unpersonal and I hope that in the future the other classes get such a good writing as well
She is a full time writer :P I don't think they are holding her back much. Honestly I think part of the problem PLD has had is just a lack of direction. Comparatively I liked a lot of the Job questlines. While I wouldn't call PLD terrible this time round (unlike HWs) it doesn't really have anything, distinctly PLD about it. Infact it feels more like a continuation of the GLD story. I felt the ARR PLD job quests were a strong direction but they kind of lost their way after that. The whole 'shield that protects the innocent and weak' thing has a pretty strong vibe to it.
While none of the others are quite as personal, there have been some strong standouts in SB. WHM was solid this time round, MNK, NIN and BLM have all been excellent WAR really only felt like it fell short because it got kind of silly at the end. On thing I really liked was there was a lot of callback to previous story elements such as from the GLD quests. There were even references to non quest npcs like the guys in the goblin masks who were recruiting engineers around the Aetheryte all through the HW patch cycle. That lead in was a really nice touch.
I think the problem of the other Jobs not being personally engaging is that they're centered around the culture and history of other civilizations and do not have a precedent for something like Fray. PLD is about the Sultan[a]'s praetorian guard, SCH is about Nym, SMN is about its Allagan roots, DRG is centered entirely around its relationship to Ishgard, AST is about Sharlayan politics as much as it is about astromancy, etc. DRK just makes it personal and explores the concepts of "justice" and "sacrifice" in a context beyond Ishgard.
WAR is also a bit introspective and personal, though it requires deeper consideration and lacks a blatant "other self" like Fray and Myste to make it absolutely clear. I did the 30-50 line just for research on the subject. 50-60 also imply it, and I have yet to run the 60-70 line but from what I understand the trend continues.
(Also, any time someone brings attention to the breaking of gender roles, it ultimately undermines the concept of gender equality by implying that it is an exception and not the status quo. Please don't drag gender politics in here.)
My main issue with the PLD arc was that its just dumb. If they left it alone as a tournament arc and did some world building and got some character development, it would've been fine. But they had to throw in this gambling subplot. GASP, gambling in Ul'dah!? The Lv68 quest was just padding. And the whole thing doesn't make since. We're the Warrior of Light, the odds couldn't have been that great. Like 1:4 at most, no way the pay off would've been worth that effort.
I am really ?? why the Paladin arc was not something about being the sworn shield of the Sultana this time. Let someone else try to kill her and we have to investigate/protect her. Just let us stand guard at a public event with our fellow Paladins and notice something was off, let us be a shield of the innocent and actually save some people, give us a cool cutscene where our character blocks a powerful attack or an arrow or just lets us show off for once
give us a Dilemma where our job of protecting the innocent clashes with the greater good aka some idealism vs utilitarism or something
The 60-70 PLD quests were an improvement over the 50-60 PLD quests...though that isn't saying much when the bar was set so low. It's a real shame, too, since it would have been relatively easy to introduce a seasoned Ishgardian knight and have them teach the Warrior of Light a few tricks and advance Ishgardian lore in the process. Catching up with a few familiar faces during the 60-70 PLD quests wasn't the worst thing in the world but I think I'd have been much more interested in heading out into the world and trying to be the ideal knight in shining armour.
I liked seeing the old GLA npc's return in the PLD quest. I missed them in HW.
But that's the thing. The 60-70 Questline was better than the 50-60 Questline for PLD because it was not a Paladin Story but rather a Gladiator Story.
As a Free Paladin, we are not technically tied to the machinations of Ul'dah beyond our association with the Sultansworn. But there was so much wasted potential for a "Game of Thrones" style plot which calls on us to act as a sort of Kingsguard figure, or maybe even intervene as a neutral knight in the House Politics of Ishgard to mediate a dispute that goes bloody. This is what I mean, the plot writes itself but they wen't with this boring as hell Oathkeeper nonsense for the 50-60 quest-line.
I hear so many wonderful things about the DK story, but I feel tied down to the Paladin job at present which really does provide me what I need to supply the other classes I am trying to level.
She also wrote the 1-50 ALC storyline, and I believe she also played a part in the Coil storyline as well.
DRK's story is absolutely amazing. I enjoy it because it gives life to our character's feelings and emotions, and focuses on our character rather than another NPC or some random, legendary item. 30-50 is my favorite quest chain out of all the job quest chains, and I've done the majority of them (all of them prior to SB's release). I can't wait to do the 60-70 quest chain for DRK because I hear how incredibly epic it is, and if people put it above the 30-50 chain, then I know I'm going to love it.
Better then pld storyline.
We see a lot of the Job storylines referencing early class NPCs. Hamon and co. turn up in the MNK quests, Sephie in the WHM and even the MRD guild reps in the WAR. WAR 60-70 had potential but kind of got silly cause they decided to go goofy with the romance subplot and for me that kind of killed it. WAR touches a little of DRK stuff because for WAR controlling the inner beast is all about your emotional state and desire. If your emotionally confused or unbalanced your inner beast will likewise be unreliable or difficult to control. That said, the big difference is the WoL never has issues with controlling their inner beast so its more about observing the qualities in others.
They basically have themes they work off. DRK is a very personal one because it focuses on the WoL's personal mental state. It however has comparatively little lore. Compare that to the BLM or MNK which have some pretty major details about the origins of the arts and/or major historical events. Further, BLM is about power, it's value and its risks while MNK is about using strength to build rather than just destroy and learning from the past. PLD doesn't seem to be about anything really which is a shame because I found the 30-50 actually had a solid start.
Here is a case in point. If we went with the whole 'shield of the innocent' thing then they could have set things up so winning the tournament was a big deal but have us chose to abandon the final to go off to save the kid. Doing the right thing and keeping to your oaths above all else, even in the face of ridicule and pressure. What it means to be a PLD. Instead they have this weird one above all thing going. I mean I liked the fights and the quests weren't bad and I loved the Nostalgia. Interesting to learn that exploding orbs of light ability is actually a Ishgardian knight technique rather than a primal ability. However there was nothing PLDy about it and frankly I found pretty much every other questline dealt with that one way or another.
That's a good point. It worked for me because I enjoyed the GLA npcs more then then PLD ones.... Fine. I am a huge sucker for romantic subplots. I just love happy endings, it makes me go D'awww, so seeing the GLA npcs' was great for me. Not to everyone's tastes I am sure, especially if you want more PLD lore. Though as a not exactly big fan of Ul'dah, I'm not sure how I feel about the job being tied to the Sultansworn, even if we are a free paladin.
I thought the PLD was an improvement because I could at least follow what was going on and it didn't drift off into... whatever the hell the Heavensward ones were suppose to be. It's true the PLD ones this time around was more of an extension of the GLA storyline but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
For me, I just think it a missed opportunity. The Sultansworn stuff was a bland mess. And it's not like I respect them considering they were sitting out the entire Palace Intrigue that booted us into Heavenswards Content. If they were doing their job, Teledji would have been cut into pieces long before Raubahn was ever interrupted from his dinner. While I enjoy being a Paladin and how well it ties (or did tie) into my being a White Mage, I can't help but feel the class itself was shown very little respect by the developers when it came time to tell us the class story.
I mean for heaven's sake, the Hildebrand Story was a better Sultansworn Story than the actual Paladin Quests themselves, any of them lvl 1-60. A string of crimes connects us to a leading member of the Order tied to an ancient Ul'dahn conspiracy to cover-up one of Eorzea's greatest war crimes. This sounds a hell-of-a-lot better than finding lost honor through a lost sword that lost power.
And the Ul Cup story meta was bull. We weren't fighting swordsmen, we were fighting spell warriors that were dropping magic aoe circles the way most people drop trash into a can. Then in the cut-scenes of course they are just clanging blades like normal. It was dumb and stupid from any perspective.
It's stuff like this that makes me want to just lvl up a DRK (haven't yet) but then I remember that I am currently working on the Paladin Anima Weapons and drat... then again, DRK already had a bunch of good looking weapons.
Anything is better than the PLD story, the freaking White Mage story is better than the Paladin story.
Well they were all using Swords and its not like PLDs don't use flashy techniques.
I think the very first 30-50 PLD story has been the most PLDy. It was basically about the values and principles that defined being a PLD. Staying true to your ideals and oaths. HW just lost that direction and its never picked back up.
The Sultansworn couldn't touch Teledji though unless they had evidence. He is one of the rulers of Ul'dah. The Sultana cant strong arm them without major political backlash. She just doesn't have the power or influence.
I think even the most beleaguered Queen should be able to have her guards forcibly stop a man and his own armed thugs from barging into her private quarters. Otherwise she can be captured and used for political purposes on a dime. Now I am not going to go and pick on this particular scab, because I am sure the opening to HW content has been washed by the player base time and again and like as not needs to be forgotten, but I will still penalize the Sultansworn all the same. The Sultansworn failed their purpose, completely and utterly. Any other order of bodyguards would have been rightfully disbanded and it's leading officers imprisoned and charged with criminal neglect of their sworn duties. Heads should have started rolling the moment the Sultana opened her eyes.
And yah, most one-on-one with npc in the Coliseum would have been right boring considering we Paladins get Clemency (it still was) so the flashy attacks was needed to enliven things.
The Dark Knight is also my personal favorite story, it has a lot of great elements to it. 30-50/60-70 had a really unique, introspective feel to it that few other questlines have managed to beat, while 50-60 explored and eventually subverted a typical "edgelord" character. While Dark Knight provides less information about the world at large, it instead explores the Warrior of Light's place in it.
Since we're talking about Paladin somewhat anyway...talk to Sidurgu after completing the level 70 Quest. Even he thinks the whole "Paladin's fighting for Dominance" thing was stupid. Honestly, while I enjoy the Paladin in many other games, for me personally it was one of the weakest questlines in the game. 30-50 takes way too long to get interesting, with most of it being "go to a place, light a bonfire, kill some animals", and while 50-60 had a fun concept (teach a child to become a Paladin) the execution was terrible, especially the level 60 quest. I'll need to try out the 60-70 soon though.
I honestly have no idea what your talking about. Telehji would have never pulled off a coup by force which is why he framed the WoL. He needed public support and he would have lost that the moment he forcibly threatened the Sultana, even if he succeeded. However there is no reason a leader of Ul'dah couldn't visit the Sultana's quarters with Ul'dah's equivalent of the police if he felt there was a matter of security. The whole point about the events of 3.55 was that they managed hide any criminal activity so that everything they did appeared legit. The Sultansworn themselves would have arrested us if Telehji hadn't. If there was a failing it was not picking up on the Assassination attempt, not what happened during or after. The law was on the side of the Syndicate members, unless we could prove foul play, which at the time we couldn't. Hell, we literally had the vial of poison in our pockets.
Access to a Monarch, however weak, is one of the most closely guarded corridors of power in any such system. No system of laws would have prevented the Sultansworn from cutting down Teledji before he could force himself into the Queen's own bedchamber which is a crime of intrusion without probable cause (yes the handmaid was there, but where were the Paladins?). Kings often feared their own nobles because they could be captured by them and propped up under threat as a puppet ruler. If the guards surrounding you are not loyal to you then you are not in charge. The Brass Blades were basically Teledji's private army and the Sultansworn were the Sultana's private army - her bodyguards would have been incompetent not to know this. Had we been arrested by corrupt Sultansworn this would have made sense, but this whole episode smells because they seemingly had no input (corrupt or otherwise).
And this underscores my point - the Sultansworn are either corrupt (already established) or incompetent (a likely possibility as well). Ergo the basis for the Paladin class is severely undercut.
The Dark Knights not having to be connected to an established order or political movement free's them from the risk of such ridiculously wishy-washy story telling drivel.
How did you know Teledji didn't have permission of the Guards? "I have urgent business with the Sultana"
If the Monetarists wanted to shelf Nanamo she probably would never had gotten to full adulthood. However Ul'dah works on a balance of power in many ways and while they manipulate things and control most of the finances of Ul'dah, they still are subject to the opinions of the people. More over most of the power in Ul'dah already sits with the Syndicate. It is very hard for Nanamo to do much without their agreement. Teledji wouldn't have been able to prop up the Sultana as a puppet ruler because A) the other Syndicate members wouldn't allow it since they all have their own competing interests and B) the people would riot.
The whole thing was set up to legitimise Teledji's arrest of the WoL. It wouldn't be hard for him to set things up to have a legitimate reason to be visiting the Sultana at the time, nor would it be strange for him to have bodyguards.
It would be very strange to confront a monarch with armed guards in her own sanctum where there were no other guards. So many red flags would have been raised by even a semi-competent guard force. In the medieval ages it would be game over at that point unless the Sultana could rely on a successful rescue attempt.
I think there's merit to the idea that there should be consequences for those who fail to protect the leaders that they are sworn to defend. I also believe that there should be consequences for the failures of leader figures, too. If they expect people to fight and die for them then they, too, need to show good judgement and not allow for naivety or misplaced trust to lead to situations where they are put at risk in the first place.
Its not the middle ages and Nanamo doesn't have much more power than Teledji already had if she had more at all. Practically speaking, Nanamo almost a puppet ruler for the Syndicate already. She has had to work damn hard to grow her influence and the whole point of her plan was to depower the Syndicate as it was the only path she saw open to her.
Honestly it might have been a bit odd but it would have been moronic for Teledji to actually threaten or harm the Sultana. It would basically cost him his own position. Frankly, prior to this the Syndicate could already overrule anything Nanamo wanted to do so there would be little to no value in doing so. People wouldn't be worried about it because it would make no sense to do. Plus, Teledji always has his bodyguards with him and any breach of decorum would have been overlooked in the face of the WoL having murdered Nanamo.
There probably would have been consequences for the Sultansworn if the events ever went public. However, for the most part, the public was told she was just unwell. Lolorito wanted to maintain the status quo, not rock the boat even more.
It's still Nanamo and the Sultansworn's fault it came to this. Even if the Syndicate had more political power, that does not mean they can walk all over Nanamo's private rights. The whole point of the Sultansworn is to defend the Sultana, and unless each of those thugs had proper itinerary for walking into her quarters unannounced then it was either corruption or incompetence on the Sultansworn's part that would see Teledji able to march in with his thugs. Nothing should ever be presumed, especially where security is an issue. I can't believe you would defend the Sultansworn on this matter - there is no defense.
There was corruption in the Sultansworn. We know this for a fact from levelling PLD to start with. Half the issue in the first part of the PLD story is that the Monetarists had gained influence and control over the Sultansworn, working to weaken them.
For to the point, I am not sure how stopping Teledji walking into Nanamo's chambers would change anything. It isn't like he walked in there and forced her to drink poison. Even if it was a breach of decorum, that detail would have been quickly overlooked by the fact that Nanamo wasn't breathing and the WoL was apparently responsible.
Remember, the whole point was that Teledji set this whole situation up to make the WoL look like the villain and him to look like the man bringing the murderer of the Sultana to justice. He would have planned to be able to walk in at the right time including having a justifiable reason to do so. He would have hardly set everything up but failed to arrange credible access. There is nothing to indicate he simply just barged in past the Sultansworn without a justifiable reason.
Are you telling me that if you were the Queen of a nation, with limited power and many enemies, that you would consent to a guard force that would allow a powerful rival to walk into your bedchambers with several armed men? This is Square Enix basically skipping a few steps, at the price of a proper portrayal of how power works in an age of swords. Had the Sultansworn walked into the bedchamber first, secured Nanamo and had their own chosen chirurgeon examine her then the WoL would have been cleared of wrongdoing when she awoke. Instead we are seized by soldiers not loyal to the Sultana and then blamed for her infliction and then almost executed. Credible access would never have been available if the Sultansworn had been a credible defense force.
You seem to be missing the fact that Teledji cant turn Nanamo into a puppet cause that is practically what she already is. The real power in Ul'dah lies with the Syndicate. She is a figurehead and she has managed to claw back influence but the main power in Ul'dah resides with the Syndicate, not her.
Teledji is, powerwise, close to Nanamo's equal. If he had important business, politically he would be very hard to deny. Further, since the Sultansworn failed he would be perfectly at rights to demand that the WoL be handed over to the Brass Blades since they are the policing force of Ul'dah. The Sultansworn may be Nanamo's personal guards but they aren't in a position to overrule the Syndicate unless they have proof of Nanamo's safety being at risk.
Seriously, what do you expect the Sultansworn to do? Deny one of the rulers of the city? They don't have that authority. Maybe if they had Nanamo to back them up but without her Teledji has authority. They don't have a legal basis for saying no unless they have some indication that Teledji was involved in the poisoning himself. The WoL was literally carrying the bottle the poison came from in their pocket. Its practically being caught red handed.
The Encyclopedia Eorzea is actually pretty clear about this, the Sultansworn only have half of the force that they need, they're weakened enough that they've had to receive aid from the Brass Blades to secure the palace. So it isn't purely a case of an incompetence or corruption on the Sulatansworn's part, though those likely play a part, but that they have been systematically weakened by the Monetarists, so that they could have their muscle there to "protect" the Sultana.
I don't think the Sultansworn should be taking orders from anyone but the Sultana or their own. To them, Teledji should be little more than another up-jumped noble (who may or may not be bribing them). What is the point of the Sultansworn if they can be ordered to step aside from their posts by someone who is not A) Their Captain or B) Their Sultana? Being in charge of the Brass Blades does not grant Teledji judicial authority anymore than being in charge of the Stone Torches would allow Chief Foreman Fyrgeiss of Amajina & Sons Mineral Concerns to turn Mines in the area into his own personal Kingdoms where he can make whatever laws he wants.
If Teledji was able to order the Sultansworn guarding Nanamo's chambers to step aside then they still failed because they did not seek clarification from Nanamo herself. It is entirely possible that they got permission from the Handmaiden who they could easily assume was speaking on behalf of the Sultana. If the trusted Handmaiden had told them that the Sultana demanded Teledji's presence along with his guards then they could almost be forgiven for mistakenly letting Teledji walk in. This is really the only redeeming scenario for the Sultansworn and it still calls for a security review.
Okay. If I had only 10 guards in the Sultansworn then 3-5 of them would be outside the Bedchamber and the others either resting or patrolling. Let the rest of the Palace be guarded by Brass Blades - the Sultana is more important than a hallway or a banquet room. This would be similar to the Kingsuard in GoT - prioritize protecting the Royal Family above all else.
Teledji isn't just another up-jumped noble. He is one of the rulers and lawmakers of the city with power on par with that of the Sultana. There would be rules to what and what they could not deny Teledji. Further, as I stated earlier, Teledji almost certainly had a legitimate reason cooked up for being there. He had planed this carefully. Further, if they had stopped him or not would have made little difference in the long run. The WoL would still be arrested, Teledji would still be able to claim custody and events would have still pretty much played out the same.
Fun fact: Lolorito donated half of his personal funds and all of Teledji Adeledji's leavings to the Sultana in a gesture of goodwill as some measure of recompense for the... unfortunate outcome of Teledji's machinations and his own (somewhat failed) attempts to mitigate them. This gives Nanamo some measure of control over the Syndicate, though Ul'dah remains a virtual plutocracy.