Savage Loot Restriction Needs to Be Removed.

The loot restriction in savage is ruining the content. It is already depressing enough to roll against people in your group that also uses the same gear. On top of that, you get nothing for the rest of the week except a token. To me, this brings discouragement instead of motivation to do savage content. Also, people with weekly clear are trolling with groups that wanted two chest (which makes it worse). The loot restriction brings nothing but negativity to savage content. We clear savage content once a week and call it because you aren't even allow to roll for that single chest. It does not feel rewarding at all. I don't get it at all. If people are capable of clear savage content consistently, why can't we farm the loot consistently like we do in extreme primal? I don't care about those ilvl tbh. I care about the feeling when you get something for your effort. Yet, those who under-perform seem to have all the luck in the world. (Sounded salty I'm sorry, week after weeks of nothing is demoralizing.)

What's worst is the token system. I suppose it is there to tell you to, "Hang in there. You will get loot after a month or two LOL." This is kind of insulting. So if I have the worst luck in the whole universe, I wait for a month to get a single accessory or belt in delta 1.0S and wait one and half month to choose from shoes, gloves, or head gear in 2.0S, and two months for 3.0S/4.0S, etc. If you cannot loot anything but a token every week, how many months does it take to get a full set of savage gear?Simply put, it takes too long.

So I clear once a week to get nothing but an insulting token that takes hellish long to get a single piece of gear. How is this rewarding? How is this fun? Once it's done we just all go back to do usual things or even just not play anymore for some people. This is probably the most boring content in the game to me. Even in normal mode I can have a goal to collect the piece I need.

It was fun when I clear for the first time for that accomplishment, and then the following weeks are nothing but empty feelings inside. We can do every other contents repeatedly, but why do we have to get penalize for doing savage content repeatedly if we are capable? Even in extreme primal we can work towards the loot we want with a set of pace. In savage, all we can do is wait, wait, and wait. (and maybe pray)

TLDR; I don't win loot so farming the raid tier should be finished in week 1.

A neverending loop.

Same discussion in every single raid tier.

And to prevent lost chests till SE finally get it done to bring a notification: Select "clear" instead of "practise" in raidfinder! It will fail to start if someone have a lockout.

Similar topic http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-is-ridiculous
The rng system that is used in this game is such junk, and not only for gear but also gathering and crafting

I understand this.
Once I clear on Tuesday there is no more reason for me to log back in.
during the week I do a rulette here an there an done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vigioX-Sun

I understand this.
Once I clear on Tuesday there is no more reason for me to log back in.
during the week I do a rulette here an there an done.

---

You log in every week though. If there was no savage lockout you would have stopped already because you'd have everything.

I mostly just find it unfair that it's possible to set up a party in such a way that all the dps are guarenteed to be able to "need" on any upgrade pieces that drop for them (outside of accs, of which there are only three subsets), but tanks and healers can never do that. I mean in a static it's not a problem but it's a bit depressing when you pug because losing, say, the tank headpiece one week doesn't guarentee that you'll get it the next time it drops like it does in a static.

Yeah...no. they're not going to change the way the savage drops work. Be grateful they added the page system. Back during Coil if you didn't get anything from those chests you had to wait until the next week.

If you're not already running with a trustworthy group to avoid the single chest trolls (who should be reported for griefing), then you may want to consider forming one.

The balance would a system similar to the Normal, gear is locked after you have received your clear for the week.

The drop amounts are always the same (always 2 chests) but once you have a clear for that week, you cannot roll on anything. It should also auto-pass for those players with clears to prevent non-rolling trolling.
This removes chest trolls, keeps the gear lockout integrity and allows for more people to get their clears each week because PUGs would not have always wait for people without clears to join.

I personally cannot commit the static due to RL but I have many FC/friends which are more than willing to clear with me after they have gotten their clears with their statics each week.
I would love to a system which allows me to clear with them and still have a chance at a piece of gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

The balance would a system similar to the Normal, gear is locked after you have received your clear for the week.

The drop amounts are always the same (always 2 chests) but once you have a clear for that week, you cannot roll on anything. It should also auto-pass for those players with clears to prevent non-rolling trolling.
This removes chest trolls, keeps the gear lockout integrity and allows for more people to get their clears each week because PUGs would not have always wait for people without clears to join.

I personally cannot commit the static due to RL but I have many FC/friends which are more than willing to clear with me after they have gotten their clears with their statics each week.
I would love to a system which allows me to clear with them and still have a chance at a piece of gear.

---

It's been so long since they made these changes, but what happened before if, say you cleared turn 4 and tried to go back and help someone in turn 2, it wouldn't even let you in right? I can't remember

Either way, IIRC they did this loot restriction in order to help prevent people selling runs. As it stands groups would have to sacrifice their own drops to sell a run (not sure if any runs are even being sold yet, but they will eventually I'm sure) instead of just have 2 drops after 2 drops after 2 drops.. So you see how that could be an issue? Not saying it's right or wrong just trying to help clarify why it is the way it is.

Our FC has ~10 people who want to run Savage each week. Instead of running with 8, get loot and then switch 2 people out and run again 2 guys are forced to run with strangers if they want 2 chests. Feels bad man...
Why not allow to get 1 gear + 1 page each week. Or make it 2 weeks cooldown for gear if you have a weird fear of people gearing too fast.

Gated savage loot is annoying yes. But as it is now I don't see chat spammed in cities of ppl wanting to buy or sell savage mode clears like I do whenever a new EX trial comes out... >.>

I really hate the loot lockout system. The reason is that I play multiple classes and it makes it impossible to gear up my characters. It completely goes against the fact that FF14 tries to let you play all the jobs on one character. The weekly cap is just too low and the one try a week drops suck even more. To make matters worse, there's not much to do after you get your one clear a week because none of the other content offers items at the same level. It would be nice if there were more ways to get the items, but nope.

I went 12 weeks straight as a healer in A9S. I saw 1 fending drop, 1 healer drop, the remaining drops were all aiming every week. After 3 months I got 3 accessories from pages. If rng decides you are not lucky, you are screwed week after week. Had a caster in a static for A1S/A2S that never saw one caster drop before the next tier, this was over about 2 months as I recall. While the token system is better than coil, I feel they should handle savage the same way they handle the 24 man raids. Each person gets one drop a week.

But then you would complain about having everything!

Wanted to try savage but won't. Too much fudging with the chests and such. I got my 230 weapon and chest and will just continue that route. 230 is fine for the stuff I do.

They could easily reduce the drops to 1 chest as long as there is at least one party member who hasn't received an item drop this week, and make people only able to roll if they haven't gotten anything drop.

That way, if you didn't get lucky enough to get anything when you ran with your 2 chest party, you could still try to re-do it with a decreased chance of actually getting something. That way only people who really want the drop would put in the extra time and effort to get it.

Edit: It would also potentially make getting PF groups better, as people would be more encouraged to help others through content.

I just wish they would lock it to personal loot per week. That would let me help friends clear things without screwing over my static.

The current savage loot system is a relic of a horrible base game engine (thanks consoles). Loot should be locked per player; on a per boss basis like every other modern MMO that matters.

Personal loot system is the way to go, additionally I have a feeling this game is biased to melee dps. If youre a melee dps with no duplicate class in your party or SAM/MNK and your gear piece drops, you are getting that drop plain and simple. However ranged, casters, tanks, and healers, literally every other role, have to fight over gear. It just is not fair nor rewarding that 8 people work together to clear a savage raid, yet only 2 people get rewarded (obv some other people get the gear upgrade stuff but im talking specifically about gear), seems kinda against the FF "team-work makes the dream work" mentality. If they want to keep raid gear the highest and hardest to get fine, but at least have some kind of intermediate option (330 gear) that isn't gated off by a stupidly low weekly cap.

Now that i think about it im pretty sure theyre only taking this approach to artificially stretch out the savage content, however from my experienced gathered in pugging v1-4s i don't think the extra 10 or 20 ilvls would even make much of a difference, ilvl cant save you from mechanics.

I just dont like having no dragoon in group... Oh 2 dragoon drops.. :*(

Savage lock is fine because if it was like normal raid :
- people will complain that top gear is too easy too get
- some will even start making fun of how getting geared with latest end game gear is a joke
- people will sell raids, making it even more laughable, as people get arrogant with their gils earned 340 gear

The only problem are those "chest trolls" that sneak in your party to lower the number of chests, which often lead to great dissapointment when the party leader wasnt cautious enough when registering the raid (or was the troll himself)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moogly

Savage lock is fine because if it was like normal raid :
- people will complain that top gear is too easy too get
- some will even start making fun of how getting geared with latest end game gear is a joke
- people will sell raids, making it even more laughable, as people get arrogant with their gils earned 340 gear

The only problem are those "chest trolls" that sneak in your party to lower the number of chests, which often lead to great dissapointment when the party leader wasnt cautious enough when registering the raid (or was the troll himself)

---

Weekly locks do nothing but stretch out the content so people cannot burn through it. Right now, the problem with gear locks is that it completely goes against the multiple classes on a single character. You can level them, but you cannot gear them. Right now, the weekly lockouts make gear hard to get because it takes weeks of grind to do it, not because the content is actually hard. The game only really gets hard starting at O3S. Even then, the only reason an encounter is ever hard is because of enrage timers. Without them, the game would easy even with all the instant death mechanics already in the game.

However, weekly lockouts this does not solve any of the problems. The hardcore players will always find a way to burn through the content. As a result, you shouldn't be designing a lot of content with them in mind. The reason is that they represent a very small minority of players. It's why raiding in most MMOs are generally dumbed down now. If you designed content for that 0.1% or less, it would just be a waste of time and resources anyways. Instead, you should be designing content that can be appealing to as many people as possible.

Selling raids is something that is unavoidable as long as you have them. As much as they would like to claim to avoid it, there's nothing to stop them from simply selling for just the weekly clears to collect the datalogs or drops and just cash them in later. I'm sure someone will be able to do it with the Ultimate raids after about two weeks of practice.

To me, what weekly lock outs do is basically limit the amount of content available. Once I get my once a week drop from reach raid and cap out my weekly tomestones, there's really nothing to do in the game. By Thursday, I'm done with basically everything. I can't make any more progress until the weekly reset rolls over on Tuesday. I've spent most of my time grinding Anima relics and leveling up other classes.

To make myself clearer, I agree there's a lot of disadvantages, especially the "I'm done doing raids 2 days after reset".
But since there will always be people abusing the system, and that in the end the pros will never overcome the cons, from my point of view, it is sadly better the way it is.

I don't really think the raids lockout are made to slow people down from quickly clearing content - as there will always be amazing players. I think it is to control the pace at which the people gear themselves, so that only 2 week after release some people are already full bis. It would kind of feel like a joke, and some people, especially gils buyers who bought their clears, would start making fun of the game and call it easy... hence starting the infernal spiral leading to the "ffxiv raiding is a joke" phenomenom.

I absolutely disagree. The only reason lockouts exist is to stretch out the content and to pretend like there is more than there actually is. The defense is that people cannot content burn, but it also makes the end game content irrelevant because you can only do it once a week. Weekly caps are even worse because you take away the choice of the player to progress at their own rate and the loss of control is what makes it far worse than just letting people burn content at their own pace for a month if they want to.

Controlling the pace at which players can acquire gear does nothing to address this issue. Instead, it makes it impossible for players to gear up for content to create an artificial sense of difficulty and a grind that does not need to exist. Instead of something you can devote a total of 10 hours to in order to complete, you have to devote 7 to 8 weeks. This is not really giving content to players either. It's giving players content for half an hour a week due to drop restrictions. Most players are still stuck with i320 gear because of this grind problem.

All you have is a bunch of content that gives you no rewards for doing them and that is the real joke of FF14 raids. At least in other MMOs that do this, they at least give you a piece of gear you can actually use and it is for everyone. FF14 does not do this. Instead, you get an item that you can trade in after 3 to 5 more weeks of grind, further worsening the deal. The result is that the incentive to do the newest content is very low and even worse than the 24 man raids right now. In 24 man raids at least you can keep going each week until you get one drop. To make things worse, if you are not a raider, you haven't seen new content for a very long time.

I'd be happy with a slight reduction in the token costs for certain items. I.E. requiring 8 for body/legs is a little excessive in my opinion. 5-6 would more reasonable. Hands/feet/head should be 4 and belt should be 4 also.

There's nothing wrong with the system - it just takes time.

If you could grind it like you can normal mode, you'd be done after a few weeks and then complain that you have nothing to do.

The current system also prevents people from feeling forced to play more hardcore - a fairly casual raid group can keep a similar pace (not counting actually being able to clear the encounters) and at least for us that is a good thing.

Is it perfect? No. But most alternatives have their own disadvantages.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vindicta

There's nothing wrong with the system - it just takes time.

If you could grind it like you can normal mode, you'd be done after a few weeks and then complain that you have nothing to do.

The current system also prevents people from feeling forced to play more hardcore - a fairly casual raid group can keep a similar pace (not counting actually being able to clear the encounters) and at least for us that is a good thing.

Is it perfect? No. But most alternatives have their own disadvantages.

---

There's already nothing to do because it is a once a week content. Clear O1S and it is off your checklist for the week and you will most likely get nothing out of it. Clear O4S and you are literally done with your end game content for the entire week with nothing left to do unless you haven't maxed out your Creation tomes. At least if you could grind tomestones or Savage content, you would have a few weeks to dedicate to gearing up your classes with each patch. That's a lot more content overall than doing something once a week.

It's not ruining content, let it be as it is. There is a reason for it.
Close please

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dragonhand

It's not ruining content, let it be as it is. There is a reason for it.
Close please

---

The only reason is to pad out content and pretend like more than there actually is. At the same time, it also makes it so that there is no end game content because it's something you can only do once a week. You are more likely to get get nothing for clearing, making Savage raids one of the worst effort to reward ratio things in the game right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RealKingKami

The current savage loot system is a relic of a horrible base game engine (thanks consoles). Loot should be locked per player; on a per boss basis like every other modern MMO that matters.

---

PFFFT please. 24 man raid much? That was available for consoles. Don't blame consoles for this design.

They can remove the lockout for gear but in return they'll make it like FFXI, where the boss has a lot pool and the chance of drop is not guaranteed. So you could clear and get nothing but upgrade materials and even that would have a % chance to drop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blanchimont

I absolutely disagree. The only reason lockouts exist is to stretch out the content and to pretend like there is more than there actually is..

---

There is no pretending about it. Savage raid is only done by a small amount of the players. There's an even smaller amount that even bother with Savage, and that number will get even smaller when Super Savage is out. This raid tier is already "dumbed" down.

I will agree a nice middle ground with reducing the amount of tokens would work though. The amount of tokens is causing more hoarding than upgrades due to the amount to get for just one item (in other words, they'd rather wait for the drop instead of spending the tokens for upgrades. This means saving tokens for alt classes)

We'll have to see if the new content they're designing will help people find other things to do, but nothing can be really done for players ONLY interested in doing Savage

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Millen1

I went 12 weeks straight as a healer in A9S. I saw 1 fending drop, 1 healer drop, the remaining drops were all aiming every week. After 3 months I got 3 accessories from pages. If rng decides you are not lucky, you are screwed week after week. Had a caster in a static for A1S/A2S that never saw one caster drop before the next tier, this was over about 2 months as I recall. While the token system is better than coil, I feel they should handle savage the same way they handle the 24 man raids. Each person gets one drop a week.

---

I might be able to break your record of lootless roll of 12 weeks soon. From week 1 till now all I see is tank/heal drops from loot and the only real loot roll I got was a heal bracelet from greed. I wanna cry hard.

Of course I know this may not be a popular point but I too agree the page system is fine. An alert should a party leader mis-make a party for "Only 1 of 2 chests will be award upon duty completion." or something would be great. But since I dabble with both this game and WoW, look there. You do an entire raid of bosses (6-9) and might see a piece of gear you can use. You get a few bonus rolls per a week which usually amount to AP or gold, no loot. One chance of loot per boss on personal loot does not solve gearing issues when you get gold. Meanwhile here, you can at least be assured of getting a page upon weekly completion.

And at least here, you have a choice of tome gear or Omega gear. Not the 15 varieties of the same piece that drop in WoW, coupled with varying stats to know if "if this piece really good / BIS for me?".

Not saying this game's loot is perfect, but I prefer it far over some of the others out there.

The restriction is fine IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blanchimont

snip

---

Because they have to extend content duration. No development team can produce content fast enough to keep up with how quickly it's consumed. In fact, I'll go over my Savage progression but change it to a guaranteed drop system.

Week 1: Slaying Accessory and Striking Boots
Week 2: Slaying Accessory, Striking Head, Striking Legs
Week 3: Slaying Accessory and Striking Arms (V2S is now functionally useless),
Week 4: Slaying Accessory and Samurai Weapon (V2S and V3S are now functionally useless)

In just one month, two floors of Savage provide literally nothing for my mine job. If the system works similarly to normal mode, thus allowing us to farm for anything. I'll have Dragoon finished within a couple weeks after Samurai. Say seven weeks for argument sake. I now have no reason to touch Savage outside parse runs. What about the 24-Man raids? There are completely worthless to me since my alt jobs will have access gear overflow long before fourteen weeks rolls around. Basically, content that needs to last 6-7 months barely has life after one. The system isn't intended to slow down hardcore raiders but to assure people who want the highest level gear will continuously play, thus paying for a sub. They won't if you hand them everything on a guarantee weekly. And we haven't even touched on how uncapped tomes would speed up the process even further.

I wouldn't mind if it didn't take eight freaking weeks to get the large pieces. At least tone it down to six.

I'm going to have to wait eight weeks to get the healer pants from books (only seen them drop once and I lost the roll, of course) and then I'll have to save up again for roborant since I'm a healer and a DPS always takes priority on that... not to mention my static fell apart so I'm pugging it every week. The only thing I've gotten in three weeks are the guaranteed books and the accesory upgrade material. It sucks and makes me not want to do it any more.

I think the only aspect that needs to be changed in the loot system is the requirement to do the 4 bosses in order. Here I am blocked with my CL, impossible to be able to go on the V3S with them. Reason: Not being able to do the V1S and V2S with Tuesday, if I go with them on the 3, I will lose all the chances of 1,2 loot including the token. I can understand for the chests but for the token?