Paladin too overpowered, nerf their damage output!

Yeah I said it! Pld has the best defensive abilities, best self-heal, best damage output from the three tanks. Was SE drunk when balancing the tank jobs? Why the fk is war so nerfed? Where is the aggressive bad ass style?

You're kinda late

Don't be hatin' ;C

Or just buff the other two classes to PLD's damage.

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Originally Posted by Aeeninwen_Taldel

Don't be hatin' ;C

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Lets be honest, it makes no sense that a class who wears a shield and a toothpick deals more damage than classes with a big ass axe or a huge sword. ;)
But i wouldn't say nerf PLD i would say buff WAR and DRK.

I would agree with buffing WAR/DRK.

We have a Salty War that lacks in DPS output so OP blames Another class for their short comings?

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Originally Posted by Raynar

We have a Salty War that lacks in DPS output so OP blames Another class for their short comings?

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Well, it's true. WAR's have always been the "DPS" of the tanks to make up for their low defense, DRK was middle-man.
PLD topples over both while it was originally the "Defensive" tank. They just need to up those two tanks.

All tank dps is really close right now. I don't think Pld needs nerfing, just Drk and War need slight potency buffs and it will all be fine imo.

WAR reigned for 2.0 and 3.0, let PLD have the stage for a change.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Well, it's true. WAR's have always been the "DPS" of the tanks to make up for their low defense, DRK was middle-man.
PLD topples over both while it was originally the "Defensive" tank. They just need to up those two tanks.

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I understand that... Seeing that I'm also Lvling my PLD to 70 myself I personally like its new changes. But this OP has nerve to come on here and QQ about nerfing a job that has nothing to with him/her playing the current job is pointless. My FC has members with WAR, DRK, PLD maxed out and not once I have seen them QQ about nerfing another job in favor over another. They know how to play their jobs and besuccessful at it. This thread OP started is just about WAR having title and losing it. So in the end of the day it's just about entitlement nothing more nothing less.

Is this a meme.

Please don't nerf pld. Please DO buff war and drk.

Alright, lets nerf PLD's damage output through the floor. However! The trade off is that PLD's defense and healing are boosted to the point that a PLD and 3 DPS can easily clear a 4 person dungeon. Or a PLD, 0-1 healer, and 6-7 DPS can handle 8 person raids. Everyone is so quick to point out that PLD is the defender tank, so lets take that to the max! While WAR and DRK will have L33T M4D DPS to throw out, but need healer support, PLD will deal almost no damage, and make up for it by having more DPS players along in the unneeded healer spot. Everyone's happy, right? >_>

(note: This post is mainly a joke.)

PLD needs dmg output to compensate for DPS that do less total damage during an 8 man raid than a single LB3... >.>

They're far from overpowered. WAR dished out an immense amount of damage throughout much of 2.0 and 3.0 whilst PLD was forced to hit like a wet noodle by comparison. It's fair for PLD to finally be in a strong spot after being stuck in a horrible spot for the better part of two expansions.

I like how everyone just completely disregards DRK from the running of being the 'best' tank.

While I would be in agreement than PLD is more than a little silly right now, I would rather just have the other tanks brought above them in damage, rather than gutting out PLD. Then again, with how they've been handling MCH and SMN, I'm not sure I trust them to buff things either....

WAR design was flawed in the beginning. Or rather, I should say that the differentiation philosophy between the tanks was flawed.

The WAR needs to be able to MT, which means content had to be balanced to make it's "lower defense" shortcoming not a shortcoming, which meant that the PLD's superior defense was not needed, resulting in the PLD not being a tank with superior defense, but just a tank with bad dps. Tank differentiation should never have been about survivability and dps. It should have been about playstyle and lore. All tanks should bring similar utility and dps to the raid. But they should play wildly different.

The PLD was the simple tank, sword and board, passive mitigation. The WAR could have been an active mitigation tank (instead of the original concept of damage absorption). The DRK could have been a stance dance gameplay (as in actually frequently changing stances, not the current stance dance we know now).

i witnessed a PLD (70) take on ifrit extreme solo (unsynced). may not sound like a big deal, but seeing this particular PLD brush off ifrit's damage with more than a few self-heals and ending the battle with more than 80% health was enough to convince me that something was wrong.

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Originally Posted by Mysticdraggon

i witnessed a PLD (70) take on ifrit extreme solo (unsynced). may not sound like a big deal, but seeing this particular PLD brush off ifrit's damage with more than a few self-heals and ending the battle with more than 80% health was enough to convince me that something was wrong.

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Something is wrong because someone can solo content from 2 expansions ago? Is this your first MMORPG?

Dark knight use to be the magic tank with slightly higher dps than a pally until SE decided paladin needed to have all the things.

You will probably be really upset to find out RDM wrecks all the ARR ex primals then Mystic.

What a time to be alive.

While WAR are QQing about no longer having God-Tier DPS as a tank, DRK would like to ask why SE removed half their damage mitigation abilities in SB... which are far more relevant to you know, tanking

*DRK Mains in general after SB revamp*
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...47/532/37c.jpg

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

While WAR are QQing about no longer having God-Tier DPS as a tank, DRK would like to ask why SE removed half their damage mitigation abilities in SB... which are far more relevant to you know, tanking

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I'm still trying to figure out what kind of drugs were involved with putting our basic defensive cooldown in the crossrole actions. Tanks basically have 4 cross roles they can choose, arguably 3 because of Provoke. Why are these not completely baseline, when would you EVER not take them? I'm genuinely curious, is there a reason, I don't even care how utterly and inanely niche it is, to ever NOT take Rampart?

In theory WAR should have low defense high firepower, making them good for the off tank role. DRK would of been middle of defense and firepower, with Paladin being slanted into defense rather then offense.

Instead WAR does the best DPS, with the second best defense. Paladin does second best DPS with the best defense. DRK does the worst DPS, with the worst defense only held up by a spammable stoneskin that gives some dps benefit.

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Originally Posted by Syfurion

I'm still trying to figure out what kind of drugs were involved with putting our basic defensive cooldown in the crossrole actions. Tanks basically have 4 cross roles they can choose, arguably 3 because of Provoke. Why are these not completely baseline, when would you EVER not take them? I'm genuinely curious, is there a reason, I don't even care how utterly and inanely niche it is, to ever NOT take Rampart?

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I think their reasoning was that some of the tank skills are extremely generic - basically all 3 tanks had a 'rampart' equivalent (Shadowskin for DRK, not sure PLD and WAR equivalent), so they condensed them down into a single skill and placed it on the cross-role section. This however leads to a few problems:

1) This forces tanks to expend some of their cross class options on skills that really are NOT optional.

2) Many of these skills that were made cross role are vastly inferior to their original version.

In the case of number 2, this hit DRK especially hard, as DRK had no less than 3 skills replaced with cross-role abilities, all but one of which is inferior to it's original form; some vastly so (Anticipation's 30% parry, Vs Dark Dance's 30% parry + 30% evasion for 20 seconds). Which means DRK can't even fully claim back all their 'lost' skills while still taking all the essentials they are expected to have. This is doubly mystifying in the case of Dark Dance/Anticipation, because none of the other tanks ever really needed 30% more parry, while the nerfed version that it became, is now useless to DRKs too, and they havn't room for it on their bar anyway. The end result was DRK lost a huge amount of their mitigation in SB, on top of the fact they were the squishiest tank to begin with.

PLD and WAR both feel fine. It's nice to have PLD feel useful and WAR to finally feel like a proper tank rather than a really tanky dps.

DRK....yeah....the best word I could use to describe it is "hollow". It feels almost disconnected from what damage it does. What self-healing DRK has just doesn't feel reliable enough compared to what options PLD and WAR have, and the only way I can still suitably tank with a WHM healer is to take as much damage as possible and stand in every bad AoE just so they'll stop stun-locking mobs with Holy and so Blood Price can be usable. Just kinda hoping it gets better past 60, but right now, DRK just feels so hollow.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

PLD and WAR both feel fine. It's nice to have PLD feel useful and WAR to finally feel like a proper tank rather than a really tanky dps.

DRK....yeah....the best word I could use to describe it is "hollow". It feels almost disconnected from what damage it does. What self-healing DRK has just doesn't feel reliable enough compared to what options PLD and WAR have, and the only way I can still suitably tank with a WHM healer is to take as much damage as possible and stand in every bad AoE just so they'll stop stun-locking mobs with Holy and so Blood Price can be usable. Just kinda hoping it gets better past 60, but right now, DRK just feels so hollow.

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Sadly it doesn't, prepare yourself for flashy yet underwhelming skills.

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

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Rampart was the paladin one, and it was functionally identical to the crossrole version we have now. Foresight was the warrior one, and it was... not amazing. Instead of 20% reduced damage taken, it was 20% increased defense, it's main draw was it could be crossrolled by PLD/DRK.

DRK really did get shafted by the new crossrole. New Reprisal is a shallow clone of it's source, tempered only by being reliably on-demand. PLD got a new toy out of it, and DRK lost it's.. 66% uptime? reprisal, and WAR lost the 100% uptime Storm's Path (which was definitely stupid, but still). We also lost our stuns, and DRK their ability to sometimes reset their stun, but PLD gets to keep Shield Bash, which is more than a little annoying. And we get what, Convalescence and Awareness from them, which we already got from them. Woo.
Considering what all they stripped out of DRK, I'm suprised you guys managed to keep Dark Mind.

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Originally Posted by Madepossible

Yeah I said it! Pld has the best defensive abilities, best self-heal, best damage output from the three tanks. Was SE drunk when balancing the tank jobs? Why the fk is war so nerfed? Where is the aggressive bad ass style?

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go have a nice seat somewhere enough wit the nerf on jobs already

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Originally Posted by Mysticdraggon

i witnessed a PLD (70) take on ifrit extreme solo (unsynced). may not sound like a big deal, but seeing this particular PLD brush off ifrit's damage with more than a few self-heals and ending the battle with more than 80% health was enough to convince me that something was wrong.

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Warriors were soloing Ifrit Extreme back at level 60, though. I don't understand your surprise.

A Paladin can heal his or her way through any fight as long as s/he can recover mana (for healing) faster than s/he takes damage. That's pretty easy to do when the Paladin's opponent is 20 levels lower and the level difference is causing an abnormal amount of successful "dodges" for the player, or when the opponent spends a lot of time not attacking the Paladin because of mechanics.

Like the Magitek Scorpion boss in the Ala Mhigo Dungeon - it seems to spend more time locked in sequences of avoidable AOE damage than actually hitting the tank with direct attacks, which makes it fairly easy to survive even if a healer dies halfway through the fight.

How about no, PLD finally is were it should have been in HW. Nobody gave a flying xxxxx during HW expansion as that job was pretty much useless. Moment WAR isn't up to people's likening anymore we trying to nerf pld.

why make this threat here? there's a "tank classes" section in the forums for this types of topics sound to me like a low quality bait and you just wanted attention.

My problem with paladin dps is that it really is much too good, for such a simple rotation. Just got my alt to 68, and earned requiest, and good god. Compared to how easy it is to click req and go ham with holy spirit, compared to how warriors have to have rng dumb luck to get their six fell cleaves in, and it really is unfair that paladins get to hit so hard.

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

warriors have to have rng dumb luck to get their six fell cleaves in

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Wat. Inner Release lasts 20 seconds. If you somehow managed to have literally zero skill speed on your gear, it takes 15 seconds to get your 6 fell cleaves off. That leaves you with 5 seconds/2 full GCDs. There is no RNG involved. The boss leaving is not RNG, that's using Inner Release at the wrong time.

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Originally Posted by Mysticdraggon

i witnessed a PLD (70) take on ifrit extreme solo (unsynced). may not sound like a big deal, but seeing this particular PLD brush off ifrit's damage with more than a few self-heals and ending the battle with more than 80% health was enough to convince me that something was wrong.

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So long as you can self-heal properly, this is a ridiculous statement to make.

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Originally Posted by Madepossible

Yeah I said it! Pld has the best defensive abilities, best self-heal, best damage output from the three tanks. Was SE drunk when balancing the tank jobs? Why the fk is war so nerfed? Where is the aggressive bad ass style?

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Taking a page from WAR1.0-3.0: "Nerf PLD? Why not buff WAR?"

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Originally Posted by Mysticdraggon

i witnessed a PLD (70) take on ifrit extreme solo (unsynced). may not sound like a big deal, but seeing this particular PLD brush off ifrit's damage with more than a few self-heals and ending the battle with more than 80% health was enough to convince me that something was wrong.

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Versus the WARs that could solo HW A Ranks DURING HW?

As for DRK... well, barely touched it, so I defer to the people that have actually played it past unlocking...

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Originally Posted by Syfurion

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Bosses move, floors glow, mechanics shift, phases change. You're really blowing over how easy it is to miss your FC window. Meanwhile, holy spirit has RANGE, letting a pally pew-pew with impunity. Run to a safe spot, resume blasting away. So forgiving. So potent. It's like having Superman pitch your softballs for you.

Just to clarify though, I'm not saying paladins should be nerfed. Making tanks less fun to play is horrible for the community.

Do people not know that WAR has the best DPS and the best mitigation tools? WAR issue is lacking in utility, outside of that it's the best MT, while PLD is the best OT thanks to Cover, Intervention, and Divine Veil, with Passage of Arms being a great shield though niche and a great mitigation tool for dungeons, though it needs it effect range to be 15 yalms the same size as the wings not 5 yalms, and the wings extends an extra 10. I've yet to play DRK, but a reduction on Dark Passengers, some potency buffs, and some more mitigation should do it fine, from what the complaints are.

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

Bosses move, floors glow, mechanics shift, phases change. You're really blowing over how easy it is to miss your FC window. Meanwhile, holy spirit has RANGE, letting a pally pew-pew with impunity. Run to a safe spot, resume blasting away. So forgiving. So potent.

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You know what else Holy Spirit has, a cast time, cast times limit movement, especially when you have barely any spare time to fit the 5 into Requiescat.
But you know what doesn't have range, Requiescat, and using Holy Spirit without Requiescat is (usually) a loss because of MP reasons