Proposition to Adjust the Lily System

The increase to lily generation rate as of patch 4.05 has undoubtable improved WHM in a variety of ways. However, several problems with the system still exist and should be addressed.

Problems:

1 The strategic uses of the lilies are still extremely limited
One cannot reconcile between usage for recast vs fight mechanics

2 Lilies do nothing on their own

3 Lilies generate too quickly in some instances
Getting stuck with three lilies and nothing to use them on

Solutions:

The most straightforward and simple solution to these problems is to add a passive buff to the lilies. The ideal passive buff would be a haste buff (perhaps 5% per lily) as in fits in thematically with the lilies recast reduction effect and benefits WHM's healing and DPS aspects.

On one final note I also think that the recast reduction being percentage based is unnecessary. It would make more sense to simply have lilies reduce recast by a fixed number of seconds (perhaps 10s 15s and 20s).

Why not just have lilies be obtained from Cure, Regen? They are no longer Rng.

Why not have Divine Bension Scale up based on lilies used or Just use 1 lily?

Why is Secret of the Lillies 2 still rng based?

Why can't we Cure a target at full Hp just to proc Bension for a tank buster?

Why is Secret of the Lillies Cooldown Reduction you still never plan ogcds around this?

Why can't we have some form of party utility like haste or faith for Casters instead of this CDR?

I wish they would of used the Consolidated thread for actual changes but who am I kidding 400 pages, Lets just change Cure I and PI. They really shown us they care and listen to feedback right? :rolleyes:

I like the Haste buff suggestion but 5% per Lily seems excessive. A 15% Haste buff that we can have on for nearly an entire encounter is a bit much, wouldn't you say? A simple 5% haste buff for having any amount of lilies would be fine though.

The biggest thing I would like to see with lilies is that they increase the effectiveness of the abilities they affect. The reduced CD on them is nice and all but impractical as it becomes troublesome to manipulate the timers to suit your needs. Things like increased duration on Asylum, improved shield strength on Divine Benison, etc would all be more than welcomed to the Lily system as those provide more tangible buffs to the skills rather than just a shorter CD on them.

Secret of the Lilies 2 also needs to be adjusted to include all abilities currently affected by Lilies, instead of just the 2 that they currently affect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

I like the Haste buff suggestion but 5% per Lily seems excessive.

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make it either 2% or 3% per Lily and we should be good. PLEASE SE

also, PLEASE make them procc on overheals (while infight)!

Simplest solution I can imagine to make it feel more solid (not that I'm recommending it, as it would be a massive overbuff):
* Changed portion

Secrets of the Lily:
Adds a Lily to your Healing Gauge upon the execution of Cure or Cure II on self or a party member while in combat. Lilies will lower the recast time for Asylum, Assize, Divine Benison, or Tetragrammaton by a percentage corresponding to the number of Lilies stacked at time of action execution (at which time the Lilies are removed).
1 Lily: 10%
2 Lilies: 20%
3 Lilies: 33%

Secrets of the Lily II:
Certain abilities now have a 50% chance upon critical healing dealt by certain spells to reduce their recast times by a certain number of seconds. This chance is increased to 100% upon critical healing dealt when in possession of 3 Lilies. (Overhealing does not trigger this effect.)
Asylum - Medica II (2 seconds), Regen (4 seconds)
Assize - Medica (4 seconds), Cure II (5 seconds)
Divine Benison - Cure (3 seconds), Cure II (5 seconds)
Tetragrammaton - Cure (3 seconds), Cure II (5 seconds), Regen (3 seconds)

Yes, that's a huge buff, and far from needed. But that's the level of power I feel is necessary for a job trait to feel worthwhile.

Would anybody ever cast Aslyum if doing so removed a 15% haste buff?

That's the problem with this idea. Lilies are a resource to be spent. This changes them into one to be hoarded, which winds up providing a disincentive towards using anything that consumes them.

Personally I think the Lilies are ok.
As Tridus said, they are supposed to be a resource, not a buff.

My problem actually comes from Divine benison requiring a Lily.
This makes no sense, as it works counter intuitive to every other skill. Every other ability uses all the lilies and reduces CD based on how many you have, DB does the same, but doesn't work if you have 0.
This is especially punishing when you want to use various abilities at once, and forget to use DB FIRST, then the rest.

Also, yeah... RNG for Secret of the lilies 2 makes no sense. Just make it so you reduce 1-2secs for every Critical and leave the randomness for monopoly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Romulo

My problem actually comes from Divine benison requiring a Lily.

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Divine benison should works like other skills. Bigger recast time that you can reduce using lily, but not using lily for casting.

I say rename Divine benison to Stoneskin, remove CD, scale with number of lilies and generate lilies (renamed to stones) with Stone casts. Everything fixed.

Actually, let me add a little more.
There's something that bothers me with the Lily gauge, but it's not as much the power that gives (Or lack of), since it's just a "free upgrade" from 3.0. But the fact that it doesn't fit the WHM theme at all.

Conjurers are the emisary of the woods, that listen to the elementals and get their powers from them.

I would rather have a "Elemental comunion" gauge of some kind, were you could use Wind, Water and Earth to give evasion/speed, elemental/magic resistance and defense buffs with an elemental theme, instead of all the catholic-church-sounding spells we have now.
Or some kind of more complex system were you have to reatune-your-element to slightly change the effect of some spells.

I don't even watch if I have lilies or not when I heal every kind of content.
These are invisible for me.

They could just remove it I wouldn't see the difference.

They could do whatever they want with it, I wouldn't mind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Romulo

Actually, let me add a little more.
There's something that bothers me with the Lily gauge, but it's not as much the power that gives (Or lack of), since it's just a "free upgrade" from 3.0. But the fact that it doesn't fit the WHM theme at all.

Conjurers are the emissary of the woods, that listen to the elementals and get their powers from them.

I would rather have a "Elemental communion" gauge of some kind, were you could use Wind, Water and Earth to give evasion/speed, elemental/magic resistance and defense buffs with an elemental theme, instead of all the catholic-church-sounding spells we have now.
Or some kind of more complex system were you have to reattune-your-element to slightly change the effect of some spells.

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Would love that. Sadly job design seems to pride itself on stomping all possibilities inherited from their base classes into the dirt.

Here's hoping for a deep re-think as of 5.0, especially for Conjurer/WHM.