Why is that? Why is it that, despite that prior to Stormblood, jobs obtained a job skill at 40, 45 and 50, Machinist no longer has one? They don't even have anything between it that mimics a "class" skill, between these levels. (Rouse comes to mind)
Machinist has a total of 23 Actions.
This is not counting cross-role actions, it is also not counting their "remove barrel" and "Turret Retrieval" actions, which.. are largely there to just be there. They don't offer anything more than QoL. Lastly, it does not take into account the upgraded heated shots, since they are largely the same button.
This is one of the lowest action counts in the game!
(The only other lower job with lower actions is WHM at 22, largely due to how Stone/Aero are constantly upgraded into a new version instead of providing a new button)
It's ranged physical DPS cousin, Bard, has 26 actions. (not counting role)
Hell, Ninja has an effective 29 usable actions (if you discount mudras, but count all of the ninjutsu castable from them)
If you ask me, a support DPS should ideally have more actions than some. It just feels to me like they require more buttons to address and alleviate various situations, or provided a larger array of buffs/debuffs.
For them to get "nothing" for an entire ten levels? It's silly, it's insane. I know content was balanced around 70 for SB, I get that. But there's no excuse or merit to taking what they would have gotten at 45, erasing it, and putting absolutely nothing back in it's place. (nevermind the fact that a large percentile of other jobs get a second action between the levels of 40 and 50 that isn't the de-facto 45 job quest skill.)
-
08-04-2017, 01:16 AMChiraisuBetween the levels of 40-50 Machinist doesn't get a single skill
-
08-04-2017, 11:10 PMkoroko220
Yeah i don't like this either. On any job. The jobs pre-70 feel bare bones compared to what they used to be. I get it's easier to just balance at 70 for endgame, ok. But I feel that below 70, which is a big portion of the game, especially for new people, it shouldn't be bare and unbalanced.
-
08-04-2017, 11:27 PMRiceisNice
The leveling progression in this game is atrocious, but I think MCH definitely has the worst of it. Just take a look at getting gauss barrel at level 52 and see what that adds to the job...
-
08-05-2017, 04:52 AMjstamosThat is literally the opposite of how you should be counting Ninja actions, since we're talking about button presses here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiraisu
-
08-05-2017, 10:32 AMChiraisuNo. We are talking about unique individual actions. I discounted QoL actions because it would be really stupid to balance action count based off them.Quote:
Originally Posted by jstamos
-
08-05-2017, 10:41 AMRichardButteThis.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceisNice
And to answer a rhetorical question, it gives you the ability to overheat but no means of actually controlling your heat whatsoever... -
08-05-2017, 12:02 PMFannah
Why would you need to control your heat before level 64? (64 is the level when you get the main bonus for being from 50 to 95).
You will gain 10% for 10sec once overheating and that's all. You will then lose those 5% from Gauss Barell for 10sec. I don't see the problem. Heat management has no real purpose until 62 (when you are able to use your heat to use Cooldown, which is like a free Slug Shot, and a full ability to spam it during overheat). -
08-05-2017, 01:41 PMChiraisuBecause it makes the class feel dumbed down, incomplete. It feels like a husk of job, even more so than most of the roster beyond it. It doesn't really have a core playstyle really down until 64. Anywhere lower than that you just feel like a gimped Archer (not even a bard)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fannah
-
08-05-2017, 07:17 PMFannah
Yes I agree, I meant there is no need to manage heat before that level, as he seemed to say we need to manage it before.
-
08-05-2017, 09:56 PMRiceisNiceIt'd be the same scenario as getting blood of the dragon or enochian, but not getting WT/FnC or either IV spells for another 12 levels. You'd have literally no interaction with that ability and it's just sitting there because of retroactive adjustments that weren't given precautions. I mean they redid Wanderer's Minuet and BRD gets pitch perfect at level 52 alongside it, the skill is completely functional.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fannah
-
08-05-2017, 11:56 PMRichardButteBecause it's a 5% damage buff to have the barrel attached and I don't want it to overheat and have to reattach it all the damn time?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fannah
-
08-06-2017, 08:04 AMFannah
You don't get it, it's a pure DPS gain (no special abilities with overheat for now, so no meaningful dps loss for the 10sec after overheat). There is no need to manage overheat before 62/64.
Then, you can between two fights remove and put your Gauss Barell on, to restart to 0 Heat.
I mean do you get it's very long to reach 100 by spamming all our ammunitions in common fights?
From 0, you need to do 20 GCD to reach 100 without ammunitions.
20GCD = 2.5*20 = 50seconds.
Let say you start with Reload at the start of the fight. 3 GCD without getting heat. +7.5sec. Then Reload at 30sec 7.5sec again, total +15sec. You have for now a total of 50+15 = 65sec.
So you have the possibility to use a 3rd Reload, 3 GCD so 7.5sec again : 72.5sec.
With all this time, you have time to use 4 Quick Reload --> 4 ammunitions, 10 more seconds. Total 82.5sec.
One more Quick reload possible, making it 85sec with Gauss Barell On without overheat.
If you happen to overheat as you will still be in fight after 95sec (the end of overheat), you still made the fight quicker and you still can put your Gauss barell on for the next fight.
You just mean you don't like having to put your Gauss Barell on again, which is ok, you like or dislike what you want, but I just said you don't need to keep Gauss Barell 100% of the time, knowing technically, it's just a dps loss like 95% of the time to get Gauss barell 100% on before 62/64 like you would like to do. Especially knowing we can just drop it and put it again between 2 fights. And for exemple, on my side, I like this style of prepapring myself for the next fight as Machinist, preparing my ammunitions and my barell if needed. I feel like I do something even when not fighting.
PS : It's weird when I just said you don't need it as you tend to believe and people just answer me Machinist "feel incomplete", "unlike Bard", and "I don't want to".
I know and understand the MCH feels incomplete, I agree the Bard is better thought about this, and I understand you would like it to be more manageable to feel like you are using it the way you want.
It doesn't change the fact you don't "need" to (as it would just lead you to a dps loss),. You give me counter arguments which are not counter arguments to what I said. -
08-06-2017, 01:32 PMRichardButteRice already answered you:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fannah
Having the heat gauge but no way to actually interact with it feels lazy, unpolished, and basically on par with most of the state of MCH.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceisNice
Heated shots should arrive the very same level you get the gauge (as well as Cooldown) because MCH doesn't even BEGIN to feel like a complete class until you get your heated shots and the associated potency boosts.
I just leveled a MCH through 66 and I felt like my attacks tickled until I hit 64 and acquired heated shots. No class should need to wait until 64 for one of the most vital boosts to its DPS output and viability. -
08-07-2017, 01:45 AMFannah
I was talking about the current system, not about what it should be.
Stop trying to be right and repeating yourself. I agree with you all, and I just said with the current system, you don't need to manage heat until 62/64. I gave my opinion about it, I said that RiceIsNice is right and I saidYou are allowed to read what people write before answering and repeating what someone said when I actually answered to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fannah