Hey all. I've been away for a while and came back when I heard that sch got an update... to learn that it was a dps skill... so what's happening? are we gonna get any healing buffs or are we stuck like this until the next expansion?
what's the deal with sch?
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08-02-2017, 04:32 PMTransient_Shadowwhat's the deal with sch?
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08-02-2017, 04:58 PMNobleWinter
We are all waiting patiently for SE to answer this question...
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08-02-2017, 05:00 PMExiled_Tonberry
You did get healing buffs. Emergency tactics, Indom, excog and Fey Union changes.
Sure you don't have op broken shields and you fairy Isn't solo healing dungeons, but SCH is very strong right now. -
08-02-2017, 05:00 PMSilver-Strider
Excogitation and Indom got a potency increase but the rest of SCH's toolkit really needs to be looked at, sooner rather than later.
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08-02-2017, 07:00 PMNobleWinter
Im really hoping that Eye for an Eye gets removed from Deployment Tactics since it isn't very useful for an entire party to have when a tank is the enemy focus. The recast timers don't even line up anymore. Being able to Deploy Excogitation, even at half potency, would be so much more beneficial.
Being able to use Bane with Chain Strategem would also be a godsend. It would add so much more cohesion to the Scholar kit.
I cant believe they let Dissipation conflict with Fey Union since you get 3 stacks but cant add to your fairy gauge because the fairy is gone. Its just a slap in the face.
Its hard to love Scholar when so much seems to be lacking. Does anyone even use Selene because I really try but it's like creating a challenge for yourself. -
08-02-2017, 07:57 PMStarflake
The only thing that needs to change is a slight potency increase to Physick and Selene needs to be more useful. If not this, make Chain Strategem last 20 seconds. That's it. Damage is fine, utility is more than fine.
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08-02-2017, 08:38 PMNorthernLadMSPI don't agree with a lot of the things you post, but this I agree with 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
I want to know, what's the deal with all of the SCH that can't learn to play the job properly instead of crying about more buffs? -
08-02-2017, 09:38 PMRisvertasashi
FWIW my static has a very capable SCH that's nearly solo healing savage fights and putting out respectable DPS, allowing me to focus on DPS for all but the heaviest damage phases. If you want to play SCH, play SCH.
If you want the mandatory party slot... yes, that's not SCH anymore. Play AST for that. -
08-02-2017, 09:51 PMVyriahSo, you're expecting anyone who play the job to play like that single guy no one knows ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
Yeah, that seem really reasonnable. -
08-02-2017, 09:57 PMRisvertasashiI'm simply pointing out that SCH heals are capable. I mean, yeah, AST is OP. But SCH is capable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyriah
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08-02-2017, 10:02 PMStarflakeIs your co healer also a level 50 healer? http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...racter/2309835Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
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08-02-2017, 10:07 PMRisvertasashiYes, we like doing omega savage at level 50 for the extra challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starflake
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08-02-2017, 10:34 PMJonnycbad
Miasma 2 can be repeatedly spammed for 100 potency instantly and then it ticks for another potency from dot for a total of 200. It's verrrrrry good in dungeons, at least better tbs gravity. Damage doesn't decay with additional mobs and it's an instant cast
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08-02-2017, 10:47 PMVyriah
Some of their alreday strong skill get buffed certainly so they don't get thrown out of Omega's parties, so yeah it have possibilities.
The real question, is how much you can expect absolutly any player with what the job give to you ?
"Some is doing something" is not a proof that the job is fine as it is. There's players actually struggling neither "get gud u scrub lol" or "my top tier static player did that in our raid run" means anything to that. It sometime look some people answer in those thread only to piss at HW SCH because it was "easy and OP" (while it's a lot easier to play now).
The problem in SCH lie in its half DPS-half healer design. That's something that was supposed to be adressed in SB and mostly left SCH with a lot of tools but no real core design. Their most basic spells are underwhelming, leaving needing to learn higher level of play earlier with a job that have more specific (for the best, unreliable for the worst) skill set, only to get chewed if they fail.
Most of this thread is basically who will be boasting who's the best healer over the noobs SCH. It's just gloating over playing the lest used only to come arround to way "oh you can't do that ? You're so bad, look at easy it is when I'm doing it".
Yeah, cool. I hope can get spend all those awesome strong healer token for some fashion at least. But it makes it even more obvious that something need to be done as part of a game that is meant to be played be something always than SCH-nerds and elitist wanabe. -
08-02-2017, 11:13 PMPyitoechitoIt's even better than that. Because it's instant-cast and 100 more total potency than Ruin II, SCH can use it when weaving oGCD skills (like Energy Drain, Shadow Flare, etc.) to avoid the clipping with Broil spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
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08-02-2017, 11:42 PMtechnole
Actually SCH is somewhat "harder" to play now in SB. Compared to WHM which got even easier to play,
If you were a slouch with SCH resource management back in HW, you'd be able get away with it. Now with higher MP requirements, if you already had bad habits in HW, and carried them forward to 4.0, plus being really bad at maintaining Aetherflow, you will feel the pinch much sooner.
The job rewards good Aetherflow play, if you are just sitting on stacks for days or blowing them in the wrong way, you are playing it wrong. -
08-03-2017, 12:44 AMVyriah
This isn't harder, it just asks you to press one new bouton every two minute.
It just mean that pressing the MP keybind give MP when I need MP.
SCH having no MP management was absolutly logical : they had aether stacks. That's the ressource you're dealing with and design-wise it makes sense that eather flow give you mp back : you're playing with this set of spells that are more powerful but only 3 of them can be used every minute. That's a strong core design coupled with how the class interacted with cleric stance. This is already rewarding careful playing over panic pressing the big heal for instant reward. Eather stacks is already locking the strongest part of your kit if not used properly, the new MP cost only seem their to force lucid dream on SCH.
The current SCH isn't harder, just press the OGCD while you DPS. Do it after an instant cast for optimisation. Order Eos while casting. DPS. That's it, you're SCH.
But there's more to focus on and there's nothing holding all those 40 something skills you can press, on top of the fact that you have to watch all corners of the screen because it's your job in the party. And the better you're trying to do, the easier it'll be to overlook anything.
I'm pretty sure every single player I've seen telling the SCH was rewarding impliyed in a way or another that the other were doing it wrong or were just plain bad. When you get that kind answer, there something wrong in your design.
When did your that kind of things about AST or WHM ? Card management QOL for AST, lillies and plenary indulgence for WHM, two things that got patched 4.05. And there's no complain about that anymore, not matter how much it was "more skilled" or "still playable" at that time. SCH AoE damage also works.
tl;dr : The deal with SCH is that they have no design anymore. -
08-03-2017, 01:00 AMLastelliSurprisingly enough, I agree with you on this XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
Indeed, SCH is not OP anymore, but right now, after AST's Balance nerf (took them long enough...) I believe the 3 healers are very well balanced.
1) WHM have the highest healing throughput, highest aoe and single target burst dps and best mana sustainability (aka infinite mp), but zero utility.
2) AST have a lot of utility, rng utility to be more precise but we can still start the pull with aoe balance and another balance in our spread and we have a lot of tools to mitigate rng. However AST personal damage is fairly lower than whm's and sch's. Healing spells are solid, both in noct and diurnal sect.
3) SCH have very solid aoe and single target damage and a lot of instant heals plus some utility (wind/stratagem and other smaller stuff) and eos is still pretty good when maganed correctly.
As a unrelated note, I usually do my expert roulette with SCH even if I have all healers to 70. It just feels easier to me and letting eos do all the work during bosses while I focus on dps feels good (yes, this is still the case, you don't need to heal at all during bosses if your party is competent enough).
As for MP management...well, all 3 healers can easily heal and do dps without ever running out of mp so it's not really a problem. -
08-03-2017, 02:26 AMjstamos
SCH's fine, it's just not OP anymore in a lot of situations, and can't pump out quite the DPS it used to.
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08-03-2017, 07:04 AMlulunami
SCH's weakness has always been sustained HPS. AST has better sustained HPS and WHM obviously is even more the case.
The main reason is because SCH's GCD healing spells got nerfed. They try to counteract this by lowering the cooldown on Emergency Tactics. When you play SCH, you should try to do minimal GCD healing and rely a lot on oGCD healing and fairy skills. It is still the same as before: DPS as much as possible while spending minimal GCD time healing. -
08-03-2017, 10:59 PMXruxis
Hello everyone! as a new player to FFXIV I could only say I can't wait to play SCH, currently been playing DPS Class/Job(s) until about a week ago I tried my first healing Job I went with AST as my first try, currently lvl 51 and hopefully I'll be able to cap this one... hopefully.
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08-04-2017, 12:42 AMClaymore65
I think the issues with Scholar are very complicated.
Part of the reason a lot of players are either finding Scholar weak or seem dissatisfied with it relates not to pure power, but to a significant shift in playstyle that's not immediately obvious upon viewing the changes. Their playstyle used to be a lot more focused on proactively using Shields , utilizing the Fairy for large healing gains, and having a more complex, DoT focused rotation than the other healers. Stormblood made their Shields prohibitively expensive and weaker than Noct-sec Astrologians, significantly weakened the Fairy, and simplified their damage rotation. Instead, optimal Scholar play is now firmly focused on utilizing their Aetherflow stacks effectively, which to many is less interesting/fun than the previous Scholar.
Coupled with some long-standing issues being unaddressed (Dissipation), and a lack-luster capstone/gauge mechanic in Fey Union, many players feel dissatisfied with the current state of the Scholar. Unfortunately, it might be difficult to address some of these concerns without reexamining the job's kit in detail. Some players would likely prefer a heavier focus on the Fairy, since it's a very unique part of it's identity and a key part of its story quest. Others would prefer the shielding become the primary focus of the job, while others probably prefer the "Aetherflow emergency healer" style it has currently.
Most negative feedback for the Scholar has its roots not in the pure power of their abilities, but in an unwanted shift in playstyle. -
08-04-2017, 10:30 AMArchamgelCan confirm from my 2.0 and on Sch perspective that power isn't a primary focus. Play style shift from shield healer with respectable dots and a high skill ceiling to "Aetherflow Healer" has not been fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore65
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08-04-2017, 01:19 PMRiyshnWhile I think you're right if it was just SCH in isolation, there is also the relative balance with the other healers to consider. Even aside from the hot topic of SCH vs N.AST shields, both WHM and AST got buffs to their basic single target healing, while SCH got two different nerfs; three if you count Physick still being equal MP cost to Cure and how healing for less. Content can only really be balanced for one of the sets of numbers - either bosses/mobs do damage intended for SCH's lower single target healing to be able to manage and WHM/AST just breeze through it, or damage is scaled for WHM/AST and SCH have to struggle to keep people alive on what should be easy stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore65
Even the addition of Lucid and bringing Aetherflow down to 10%, while numerically a buff (Lucid is available every 2 Aetherflow (before Quickened), and restores more than twice as much, at least at current Piety levels.), still feels terrible, compared to how fluid just having Aetherflow/Energy Drain for MP management used to be.
Then there's the removal of Cleric Stance, which straddles the line between balance and playstyle. While having DPS spells scale off Mind is technically a buff to all healers, WHM and AST benefit from it far more than SCH, because SCH was already a class designed (or at least played) around the idea of exploiting Cleric through shields and passive healing to get maximum DPS uptime. Realistically just about all the Cleric/Mind change opened up for SCH was a return to being able to Lustrate in between DPS casts without having to worry about the extra button press of Cleric, while for the others, WHM in particular, DPSing has completely opened up in a way that just wasn't really available before.