Grynewaht on the Steppes

Watching the Naadam cutscenes again (because I love them so) I have three questions about Grynewaht:

1. How did he get to the Steppes with his men and a massive mech?
2. Where did he go when he ran off ?
3. Why in the Fury's name did the Warrior of Light just let him go?

Yes, I know the answer to #3 is "gameplay and story segregation" but seriously, that was mindbogglingly stupid, in that "I'll just toss Nidhogg's Eyes off this bridge and not worry about it" kind of way. This is a guy who's tried three times now to kill us, and we're going to let him go?

#1 and #2 are more of a puzzle. Did an airship drop him off? If so, then why didn't he call for covering fire, like Gaius did in the Praetorium? And where did he go? It looked like he was running toward an encampment. It was a cool scene, don't get me wrong; it's just a little odd.

Neither the Warrior of Light or some of his closest allies are the brightest or most consistent of individuals. I'd say it's really that simple. Even from Grynewaht's appearance the Warrior of Light and his allies sought to treat him more like a nuisance than a proper threat - which shows just how overconfident and arrogant they can be. It also served to push him further and further off of the deep end as a consequence, since each time they fought and beat him he became a little more unhinged.

Ultimately, though, there wouldn't be much of a story if the Warrior of Light immediately put down every possible threat at every possible turn. Still, it is a bit jarring how they'll relentlessly pursue some of the more sympathetic antagonists and put them down like rabid dogs only to let some of the more unhinged opponents slip away. That just ties in with the opportunistic and inconsistent nature of some of the protagonists, though. Especially when they deem themselves the judge, jury and executioners.

(Note that I do not necessarily mean inconsistent writing - I'm referring to their personality traits and decisions.)

I'm seconding that the WoL didn't see him as a threat. I mean, did you the player? And for the other questions, I wouldn't be surprised if they had outposts littered around with men and armor lying around.

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Originally Posted by Heliantheae

I'm seconding that the WoL didn't see him as a threat. I mean, did you the player? And for the other questions, I wouldn't be surprised if they had outposts littered around with men and armor lying around.

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I didn't see him as a threat. I saw him as an annoying nuisance who would not go away. This was the third time I'd faced him; at that point, I'd be like "Okay, I'm over this already *stab*" Instead, the WoL is "Bye! I'll just let you run off toward what looks like the Mol encampment and not stop you. Catch you later!"

As far as Imperial outposts dotting the Steppe, that contradicts what we're told when we first arrive: that there's nothing there the Imperials want badly enough to deal with the violent Xaela who are optimized for living in that environment. The only thing that might be of interest to them would be the House of the Crooked Coin which may or may not be Allagan-related, but at least on the quest that takes you to that location, there's no sign of Imperials. It's a bit puzzling.

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Originally Posted by Rosenoire

I didn't see him as a threat. I saw him as an annoying nuisance who would not go away. This was the third time I'd faced him; at that point, I'd be like "Okay, I'm over this already *stab*" Instead, the WoL is "Bye! I'll just let you run off toward what looks like the Mol encampment and not stop you. Catch you later!"

As far as Imperial outposts dotting the Steppe, that contradicts what we're told when we first arrive: that there's nothing there the Imperials want badly enough to deal with the violent Xaela who are optimized for living in that environment. The only thing that might be of interest to them would be the House of the Crooked Coin which may or may not be Allagan-related, but at least on the quest that takes you to that location, there's no sign of Imperials. It's a bit puzzling.

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The Empire itself isn't interested in dealing with the Steppe, but Grynewaht had a personal vendetta that was consuming him. Him going into dangerous territory because he sees an opportunity to fight the WoL again isn't much of a stretch, especially if Yotsuyu wanted to buy time to reinforce Doma Castle.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

The Empire itself isn't interested in dealing with the Steppe, but Grynewaht had a personal vendetta that was consuming him. Him going into dangerous territory because he sees an opportunity to fight the WoL again isn't much of a stretch, especially if Yotsuyu wanted to buy time to reinforce Doma Castle.

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Right, that part makes sense, but how did he get there? Did he go in the way we did and wander around with his troops and his mech until he found us? Did he have to fight off a bunch of Xaela on their way to the ovoo?

The more I think about it, the more I wish the devs had used a new character, someone who wasn't so intentionally stupid. I could totally buy, say, Regulus tracking us down in the Steppes, but Grynewaht is consistently portrayed as an idiot who can barely tie his own shoes. I actually think it would have been good to see the recurring Imperial antagonist be competent.

I presume either airship or naval units. I mean, we were on the steppes a long time before he appeared, and the Ruby Sea does have a zone transition directly to Reunion.

I honestly don't remember him pre-stormblood... but I feel like his type of character ( loud and dumb) should be reserved for sidequest content... that being said he probably just followed us to the steppe, saw the light and fighting from the naadam and decided it was a good place to look for us... as for where he went ... probably ran back to doma... he's never been to the steppe so probably just ran in the opposite direction of the wol... as for letting him go, we were in strange territory ourselves... where were we gonna keep him? He's not enough of a actual threat to kill him...

Why did we let him go? My own personal reasoning is that we had just fought two huge battles, the first being a giant free-for-all with the other Xaela tribes, and the second being the united Xaela joining against the Imperials to drive them back. In all likelihood, that amount of fighting would exhaust even hardened veterans.

There also may have been some ovoo-related rite that had to be finished in lieu of pursuing what everyone rightly (at the time) thought was a mere nuisance.

1. The Steppe can be accessed from the Ruby Sea... I figured they just took the same route we did.

2. Probably back to Doma Castle? He ran back toward Reunion... you can see the aetheryte and everything.

3. We didn't kill Grynewaht then and there... probably because aside from being exhausted from two big battles, we are merciful when we can be. Grynewaht had repeatedly proved he wasn't a major threat... no need to kill him. Live and let live, y'know? Though considering what happened to him, perhaps doing so would have been the real mercy... but hindsight's a bitch.

It's been said he's dumb but resilient.
We may not have been able to give him a proper killing blow at the time.

I just viewed him as being the stereotypical bumbling villain that nobody takes seriously enough to bother finishing off.

Said villains tend to either:

1. Eventually go out in a pathetic manner that makes you almost feel sorry for them (Being transformed into a screaming chainsaw maniac likely against his will put him into this category for me).

2. Become a credible threat after doing something nasty that makes everyone start taking them seriously.

3. Switch sides after getting sick of being treated badly and losing all the time.

I will quote my chat exactly after my second encounter with him:

".. .. when am I going to kebab this green motherf***?"

I'm all for second chances and forgiveness, but doofus Mc hammerface needed to die during my 2nd encounter with him. I've killed armies for less.

Considering I play a bard and I'm supposed to be a legendary warrior, I have the question about letting people go all the time.
Like... I could totally put an arrow in their spine/legs/face/whatever, but no~~~.

WoL secretly likes seeing him squirm so he/she allows those multiple encounters until they get bored.

About point 3: Yes I was a bit annoyed that SE did not let him be captured after the third time he fought us. In lore I just believe that my WoL is not a murder happy person and would probably spare more people if they would just give up or run away, so thats why he got away the first two times. I do find it a bit unlogical that the rebellion and the city states reacted the same..I can believe that the WoL would just let him run because they dont want to kill him and maybe because we saw him as no threat. But I am not sure why the other soldiers just let him run. Maybe my character thought: Well the others will catch him, I mean they are standing right in his way..*he runs away*..well if they cant just do something like that I will just ignore him too.

But after the third time I would have finished him because he got enough chances..but plot demands for it to not happen..

Grynewaht reminds me much of Gilgamesh before his eventual augmentation. My reasoning for my character not finishing him is because I had hope of reformation. Ultimately, Grynewaht finds his end as yet another casualty of the war with Garlemald.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

3. We didn't kill Grynewaht then and there... probably because aside from being exhausted from two big battles, we are merciful when we can be. Grynewaht had repeatedly proved he wasn't a major threat... no need to kill him. Live and let live, y'know? Though considering what happened to him, perhaps doing so would have been the real mercy... but hindsight's a bitch.

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I was a little surprised that one of the Xaela--specifically, Magnai--didn't finish him off. Or if he didn't, figuring that was the new khagan's job, that he didn't have things to say afterwards about how stupid it is to let a defeated enemy live and escape. As someone who believes his job is to protect the Xaela, he's probably not too impressed with a khagan who lets defeated Imperials run around loose.

I'd say that the excuse SE would give, if pressed, is a combination of weariness from fighting two big murthering battles in a row, squeamishness on part of the WoL, the Xaela not really giving a damn (they spent decades ignoring the imperial conquest of Doma after all) about someone they just beat up and caution against cornering a wounded animal that might just do something dangerous with no way out.

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Originally Posted by Rosenoire

I was a little surprised that one of the Xaela--specifically, Magnai--didn't finish him off. Or if he didn't, figuring that was the new khagan's job, that he didn't have things to say afterwards about how stupid it is to let a defeated enemy live and escape. As someone who believes his job is to protect the Xaela, he's probably not too impressed with a khagan who lets defeated Imperials run around loose.

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We don't need Magnai to be impressed with us - just for him to follow our orders. We also (probably) have no intention of keeping the title of khagan, so Magnai can have it back next year as far as I'm concerned.

It really bugged me to let that guy go AGAIN in the Steppes. We let him go once- fine, maybe he learned his lesson and we had to deal with more pressing issues anyway. We let him go twice- uh, I guess we just didn't want to deal with him since we obliterated the real threat (the mechs)? Should probably have captured him at least- he's clearly a ranking officer that has a personal vendetta against us. But whatever I beat Raubahn EX gonna finally move on! Then we let him go YET AGAIN- okay this is just stupid, SE pls. He's a flippin' nuisance wasting time and resources despite his bumbling, let us get him out of the way so we can deal with the real threats please. I imagine the WoL as a hopelessly nice guy who would rather talk things out than fight but at that point I'm pretty sure most people would have at least conked him really good on the head and left him to the Alliance. I was enjoying the story until we had to just watch that idiot stumble away twice...

I think some of you are overthinking it. Grynewaht was something of a recurring comic relief figure - a bumbling brute who showed up multiple times before meeting a grisly end. This is hardly something new for the franchise, let alone the genre. If the protagonists are going to be encased in plot armour then it's only fair that the antagonists, too, get to enjoy that selfsame luxury from time to time. Either temporarily or permanently.

Plot armor should still be explained otherwise it will be bad story writing. Ysthola for example only survived thanks to healers being there. No amount of plot armor should have saved her without healers. (Even though others did die from same kind of wounds while she survived long enough until Krile was there. So she has the case of a verg strong plot armor)

Gosetsu surviving the fall of a builing, multiply shot wounds and being stranded on an isle without any medical help is imo a very bad plot armor.

One could argue that Grynewath had the plot armor thanks to us not seeing a big threat in him but why would the rebellions and the alliance just let him go? Why would the Xaela warriors that have no regrets of killing their own kind in the tournament, let him run?

I'm more surprised the empire allowed him to live after messing up multiple times more than us letting him go...

Well, we know that Zenos showed 'mercy' to Yotsuyu and Fordola by sparing them despite their failures. His intention was to drive them further and further towards desperation, anger and hatred. It worked. It's likely the same for Grynewaht. Almost certainly, in fact, since he outright asks Yotsuyu how long it'll be before Zenos reinstates him into his former position.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think some of you are overthinking it. Grynewaht was something of a recurring comic relief figure - a bumbling brute who showed up multiple times before meeting a grisly end. This is hardly something new for the franchise, let alone the genre. If the protagonists are going to be encased in plot armour then it's only fair that the antagonists, too, get to enjoy that selfsame luxury from time to time. Either temporarily or permanently.

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ANd this is why I disliked him. Even in 3.56, he wasn't funny, he was distracting. Every time, all I could think is "why is this guy wearing blush on his cheeks?" I guess it was supposed to be.. anger marks? Or something? I'm not sure. He just felt really off in tone from the rest of the story. Shinra is bad.. fight the comic relief squad. *sigh*.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Well, we know that Zenos showed 'mercy' to Yotsuyu and Fordola by sparing them despite their failures. His intention was to drive them further and further towards desperation, anger and hatred. It worked. It's likely the same for Grynewaht. Almost certainly, in fact, since he outright asks Yotsuyu how long it'll be before Zenos reinstates him into his former position.

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And instead of killing Grynewaht he decided to kill the officer that defended him..Zenos is truly messed up.

If I'm going to be honest, it seems to be mostly a plot armor sort of deal. He needed to survive until he finished his story (even if his end was rather tragic) so he does. That being said, I thought I might have remembered some sort of statement about him being 'way faster than he looks' after that fight, implying that he might have just managed to escape more or less on his own merits. They could have made this more clear by having the WoL offer to go after him and then have the other Xaela say something like "we'll take care of it" though.