Would they add Blizzard to RDM Rotation?

So RDM is fun, I enjoy it's versatile abilities and just the style. However, how complicated would it be if:

RDM can go too far White / Dark,

Going too far White would increase potency of Vercure / Aero / Stone, and unlock ability to use Veraero II that depletes the White Meter by half.

Then going to far Dark would increase potency of Dark spells but also unlock Blizzard, but by using it, it would deplete Dark Meter by half.

Or just add a new spell to the rotation, what would it be? Verwater >> Verblizzard?

Would this work? Be fun to have three rotations!

Thanks for reading my post!

Patronas out

My feeling is that if RDM players are currently happy and having fun with the abilities the worst thing you could do is ask square to add and balance new ones. That can go really poorly theoretically.

I prefer it the way it is now. Adding complexity just for complexities sake is not always a good thing.

There is already a mechanic for aligning too far with one element. If you go too far white mana for example, your black mana generation spells are significantly reduced in generation (maybe potency too). And vice-versa for going too far on black mana.

I like RDM just the way it is. I don't want "complex" or "interesting". I want "simple" and "effective".

We have plenty of options for "complex" and "interesting" among the other dps. Having at least one dps job that doesn't require finger gymnastics or a flow chart, to do passably well with, is a good thing.

The flow of RDM already feels nice to me. Our super spell effects is another thing (VERHOLY FOR DAYS) but when it comes to being in content and wanting to perform, RDM's flow is so good feeling to me that I could enjoy it easily. I'd rather not add complexity. That would only make it feel worse. Plus, we all know people wouldn't understand it (Some don't even know you can dual cast verthunder and veraero.)

How about just pay attention to what spells you're using/have used? It's your job to keep your spell types in balance, we don't need special spells to act like a get out of jail free card just because you messed up a rotation.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

How about just pay attention to what spells you're using/have used? It's your job to keep your spell types in balance, we don't need special spells to act like a get out of jail free card just because you messed up a rotation.

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This, the job is already competitive just by smacking your face down and rolling it against keyboard, it doesnt need more safety nets

I like it the way it is too, with one huge exception: VerHoly vs. VerFlare.

Other than whether black or while mana is low, there's no reason to chose one over the other, leading to them both feeling like the same spell.

If they were to add Verblizzard and/or Verwater, I would want them as Utility spells rather than part of the damage rotation. Maybe make Verwater an MP Restoring ability on a long cool-down with minor returns. Something to weave in with long fights at, say, the end of a Verholy/Verflare. Verblizzard could be for a defensive cool-down or something. Maybe a, 'Enemy takes damage each time they hit the RDM.'

We might get new Verelements at level 80/ next expac at least.
I don't want overly complications rotations. :/

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Originally Posted by Vexander

If they were to add Verblizzard and/or Verwater, I would want them as Utility spells rather than part of the damage rotation. Maybe make Verwater an MP Restoring ability on a long cool-down with minor returns. Something to weave in with long fights at, say, the end of a Verholy/Verflare. Verblizzard could be for a defensive cool-down or something. Maybe a, 'Enemy takes damage each time they hit the RDM.'

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Make Verwater a MP restoring buff you can place on a party member other then self. Making it utility for helping others (like your healers, or other casters) but ultimately not something very useful to a RDM alone. Think of it as a caster version of Goad.

If you wanted to take inspiration from WoW, VerBlizzard could be a defensive cooldown like iceblock that grants you a good amount of damage resistance and inability to be affected by knockback/draw in effects while rendering you unable to perform actions.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

We might get new Verelements at level 80/ next expac at least.
I don't want overly complications rotations. :/

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Agreed. What we have right now is perfect. I'd rather talents upgrading the spells to level II and not changing the potencies, mp cost, or cast times, but maybe adding buffs/debuffs or something. Maybe something like stacking debuffs that can cause additional damage when Verholy/Verflare are used.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Make Verwater a MP restoring buff you can place on a party member other then self. Making it utility for helping others (like your healers, or other casters) but ultimately not something very useful to a RDM alone. Think of it as a caster version of Goad.

If you wanted to take inspiration from WoW, VerBlizzard could be a defensive cooldown like iceblock that grants you a good amount of damage resistance and inability to be affected by knockback/draw in effects while rendering you unable to perform actions.

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I'd be worried about giving RDM anymore party/raid utility since people are screeching for nerfs due to Verraise, Vercure, and Embolden. Something mild and just for the RDM feels like it'd be better.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

I'd be worried about giving RDM anymore party/raid utility since people are screeching for nerfs due to Verraise, Vercure, and Embolden. Something mild and just for the RDM feels like it'd be better.

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The only problem I see is that there is no real room for more damage output, leaving the only options defensive and utility based. Regardless of what you add people will screech about it.

And honestly it feels like people do not understand how bad it is for a RDM to need to verraise and vercure, cause if they are doing those then they are not doing any DPS, and if they need to do them for too long then they are at the mercy of lucid dreaming cooldown before they can be useful again in helping take the boss down. Unlike a BLM who only stops dealing high DPS to avoid AoEs, then zips right back to their circle and resumes doing their damage output. Ideally no one is dying and the healers are doing their job without need of healing help, this makes it so that vercure and verraise are not so much party/raid utility but emergency utility/a nod to how the class functions in past FF games.

This leaves the only real raid utility to be Embolden and role abilities. Embolden also only works in physical heavy lineups since only RDM gets the magic buff.

I expected VerWater and VerBlizzard as RDM's AoE skills, but instead we got Scatter spam. :\

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

I expected VerWater and VerBlizzard as RDM's AoE skills, but instead we got Scatter spam. :\

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They probably should of been the aoe skills cast off scatter as the starter, but they did not have any good spots to put them in without causing RDM to get more skills then the rest of the classes.

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

I expected VerWater and VerBlizzard as RDM's AoE skills, but instead we got Scatter spam. :\

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This sounds like a great idea, alongside TankHunter678.

Yeah perhaps adding this as an AoE Rotation would be fun, perhaps like Scatter Opener could initiate Verwater, an AoE, then perhaps we can do Verblizzard if it procs, to be a slightly less powerful than Verwater, but have a faster cast time like Verfire / Verstone.

Also thanks for all the feedback on my comment, and I do see the concerns from some of the replies, but also enjoy the AoE addition for these spells.

Heck, maybe if add Verfreeze as the AoE version of Verholy / Verflare?!

Thanks again y'all! See you in game =)

Only issue I see with Verblizzard/Verwater as AOEs starting off of Scatter would be how their Black/White Mana generation would work. The spells would either have to give both, or give neither. Normally we'd expect Verblizzard to give Black and Verwater to give White, but if Verwater requires 'Verwater Ready,' then its RNG dependent and cannot be relied upon to boost White Mana, whereas Verblizzard could be relied on to boost Black Mana.

Granted that's with thinking the Rotation is Scatter > Verblizzard (strong potency, high cast time) > Verwater (if procs, lower potency, faster cast time). I went this this idea as I imagine Blizzard to be more damaging than Water.

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Heck, maybe if add Verfreeze as the AoE version of Verholy / Verflare

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Tether is basically Verfreeze

Happy with RDM as it is. But the thought of 5.0 scares me. Mainly because if something like Vernochian was added, itll just turn the job into a mess

Hmm your right, it would sort of jack up the black/white mana meter mechanic! And maybe to keep it more manageable and not too complicated it would be something like this:

Perhaps scatter >> Verwatera (White)
Scatter >> Verblizzra (Dark)

Just to add to an elemental AOE to boost meters faster rather than Scatter / scatter spam

Then add a non-elemental ancient like a AOE finisher Verruin... might be taking it too far here lol

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Originally Posted by PatronasCharm

Hmm your right, it would sort of jack up the black/white mana meter mechanic! And maybe to keep it more manageable and not too complicated it would be something like this:

Perhaps scatter >> Verwatera (White)
Scatter >> Verblizzra (Dark)

Just to add to an elemental AOE to boost meters faster rather than Scatter / scatter spam

Then add a non-elemental ancient like a AOE finisher Verruin... might be taking it too far here lol

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I would gladly give up tether for even one of these skills, aoe is a bit lacking, well lets hope they do this in 5.0 and leave the job alone its reallu all RDM could possibly need in the future. We're strong on single targets.

I really hope we get some water/ice representation, but not if it changes the flow we have now. OGCDs/buff/AoE are good ideas

I defiantly can see more room for off global cool-downs for Red Mage, but as many said. Red Mage is in a really good spot. They crafted this job well. Water and Ice can have a representation in the next expansion, if at all necessary, although it would be more interesting if these where skills specifically used to extend or be a part of our Melee Burst rotation.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

There is already a mechanic for aligning too far with one element. If you go too far white mana for example, your black mana generation spells are significantly reduced in generation (maybe potency too). And vice-versa for going too far on black mana.

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so you want a black mage with different colors? because this is a black mage

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Originally Posted by PatronasCharm

Hmm your right, it would sort of jack up the black/white mana meter mechanic! And maybe to keep it more manageable and not too complicated it would be something like this:

Perhaps scatter >> Verwatera (White)
Scatter >> Verblizzra (Dark)

Just to add to an elemental AOE to boost meters faster rather than Scatter / scatter spam

Then add a non-elemental ancient like a AOE finisher Verruin... might be taking it too far here lol

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I really like the idea of making VerWater and VerBlizzard part of the AoE combination cause it lends it to the RDM play style. I don't think it should have a big finisher tho as Ruin is more a summoner spell in this game and not black or white magic. I do hope that when we go from 70 - 80 all we get are traits that upgrade our spells to their 2nd tier. And maybe give us the water and blizzard spells as AoE of course lol.

Boring as this might sound this class is pretty good as-is right now. I'm not gonna say OP but hey it's pretty close. :)

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Happy with RDM as it is. But the thought of 5.0 scares me. Mainly because if something like Vernochian was added, itll just turn the job into a mess

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Like others said, I imagine we'll end up with more OGCD abilities ala Contre Sixte/Fleche, just perhaps less DPS oriented. For example, Phalanx as a damage mitigating ability. Maybe they'll give RDMs Stoneskin since they took it away from WHM for some reason. I also wouldn't be surprised if we received some kind of set of Stances in the form of En-Spells. En-Astral to boost White Magic DPS/Mana generation, En-Umbral to boost Black Magic DPS/Mana generation.

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Originally Posted by Myrkana

so you want a black mage with different colors? because this is a black mage

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No, this is what we already have. I'm referring specifically to the generation of black and white mana (not the more general mana, the specific coloured mana). I did not say what I wanted, only what we already have.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

I like RDM just the way it is. I don't want "complex" or "interesting". I want "simple" and "effective".

We have plenty of options for "complex" and "interesting" among the other dps. Having at least one dps job that doesn't require finger gymnastics or a flow chart, to do passably well with, is a good thing.

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This is a good post, I prefer the complex ones myself though. I get annoyed when they tamper and simplify them, I can totally understand the people on the other side having same issue in reverse. Its good we have both complex and simple job choices.

I propose to have Impact replace Jolt II when it procs.

I also propose to have VerFlare and VerHoly to be same skill, unlocked at lv 70, and depending on whether your white mana is lower or black mana lower, one of them procs and shows up. If they are both equal, then you don't get neither. Now, that is a complexity I can live with, because you make it simpler to cast whichever is needed, but you also make it risky if they are not paying attention, they lose both.

But, knowing SE, these are just hopeful wishes, perhaps in 5.0 when new skills are added this stuff might happen.

Maybe one day you'll get Spell glamour and you can glamour Verfire to Verblizzard? : D

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Originally Posted by Capriana

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There is no need to make RDM more complex. It already has a priority system with a dynamic flow chart of decisions, the dual cast system also tends to confuse people who pick the class up to begin with.

Also you already use Impact in place of Jolt 2 as a starter when it is up, and Impact always procs off jolt 2. No need to make them share a button besides laziness or reducing button bloat for the next expansion.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

There is no need to make RDM more complex. It already has a priority system with a dynamic flow chart of decisions, the dual cast system also tends to confuse people who pick the class up to begin with.

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thank you!

I feel like people think that if you don't have a super complex, overly long, and uninteresting rotation, you shouldn't be allowed to do any dps at all. so some people cry for nerfs and others, like OP, try to suggest things that change the way the class plays for the sake of "muh complexity".

RDM's playstyle is fine the way it is.

just reduce our potencies or something to get the other DPS to shut up with their whining about us already. honestly, as long as they don't change the playstyle, I don't care if we get our damage nerfed, if it gets the other dps players to just leave us alone. but then again, I'm never going to step foot in a Savage Raid, so it doesn't matter to me.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Happy with RDM as it is. But the thought of 5.0 scares me. Mainly because if something like Vernochian was added, itll just turn the job into a mess

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I'm a bit worried too. There is room for more abilities to use in place of Jolt I guess. We could also channel a spell to slowly fill our mana at times when there's no target to attack. Or have a group dps buff which costs black and white mana. Dots, procs or sustained self-buffs would probably make the job more similar to other jobs and I hope the devs avoid that.

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Originally Posted by DynamoAce

Maybe one day you'll get Spell glamour and you can glamour Verfire to Verblizzard? : D

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You're cooking up a juicy vermeme there