SCH opinons on the change

so what do you guys think about the changes to sch?
im happy about indom and emergency tactics but excog not so much.
i really wish they had touched physick or adlo.

I am happy with everything except Excogition. Why cant it just be a frigging shield. In terms of communicated content where im in voice chat it's fine but in terms of randoms, they clemency or heal every time it doesn't go off. Even if it goes back down to 650 or even 600 potency.. I'd rather have the shield every time.

That being said, I feel like these changes were not what SCH ultimately needed. Indom is nice, yay but I never felt wanting for more potency out of it. Emergency tactics is nice on a lower CD but our heals are still expensive as all kupo, which at the end of the day Succor is still a overpriced Medica/Helios and Adlo is...

Im happy we got the changes we got, really... but it's really not anything I would have wanted short of Quickened AF being better and Emergency tactics CD reduction. Two things I didn't even contemplate wanting because I was fine with them already.

EDIT: The more I think about it the more I realize im actually not happy with the changes outside of "oh.. ok, that's nice I guess." I just want my shield healer back and wouldn't even care if the heals were weaker.
EDIT2: SCH is still solid in terms of playstyle, maybe im just a bit jaded and protective of the identity I was used to all throughout my playing of the game.

Well have to see what miasma ii is like, but overall, i feel like SB took SCH in a bad direction. These potency changes won't change anything. 500 potency indom is just overkill lol.

Dissipation isn't addressed. I don't care if it reduces aetherflow cast time by 15 seconds for burning the stacks gained. You lose half your tool kit and are LOCKED out.

Yeah. Still not interested in your scholar.

Indom buff is always nice, though especially with lower CD on ET it isn't that necessary. But, I'll take it.

Excogition still feels mediocre to me - I feel it, as well as Sacred Soil, would be better off as long CD abilities that don't consume Aetherflow, because they are competing with too many other skills. Though, Aetherflow being at 45s CD now is really nice.

Miasma II - here's hoping it's a bit more potent than the old one. But, still better than nothing.

These changes look quite nice. Didn't expect Indomability to get buffed but with how much new AoE the other healers got, it makes sense.

Excog is a superior lustrate now, and it doesn't need to be a shield. At 800 potency it's not quite the strength of a critical lustrate, and with the more forgiving timer and cooldowns it's easier to use. It's true that it rewards thinking ahead and punishes reckless use, but that's not really any different from Deployment Tactics.

The big things is the Aetherflow trait, which is honestly amazingly ideal. It effectively shortens your Aetherflow cooldown to 45 seconds if you use your stacks, which is fantastic.

A stronger indom is cool. I wasn't aware there was anything deficient about indom but I will certainly celebrate it.

One of Fey Union's stupidest issues was corrected in that it no longer consumes meter if the target moves out of range, which is frankly a better fix than the tether range (which is also good). Fairy placement planning is essential in the skill use, but that's as it should be.

I can only appreciate the changes that have been brought. It looks like SE has already decided their vision for scholar and these changes at least help flesh that out a bit. Excog seems like it's designed only for when you're anticipating high damage. The lack of shield is questionable but it's at least designed to allow more dps time. It's also been made to synergize well with Aetherflow which is a bonus I won't complain about tbh. The change to Emergency Tactics is a godsend, but I don't really know if I'll be putting any use into fey union especially seeing as how I prefer dissipation for it's boost to shield strength along with Fey Illumination and Largesse.

Honestly, Not to happy.
Our shields are still crap, and our heals are still crap...
yay 45sec recast on aetherflow...
adlo mp cost still stupid high
Succor mp cost still stupid high
indo recast still 30 seconds, it was fine at 400 pot really
and the list goes on lol
/facedesk

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

Excog is a superior lustrate now, and it doesn't need to be a shield. At 800 potency it's not quite the strength of a critical lustrate, and with the more forgiving timer and cooldowns it's easier to use. It's true that it rewards thinking ahead and punishes reckless use, but that's not really any different from Deployment Tactics.

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I agree with this, im just frustrated by all the randoms that go heal happy with it up, even when a macro message tells them its up. But thats more of a them problem and not the ability.

It looks like SE is trying to shift SCH to focus more on our AF methods of healing. We got buffs to both the AOE and single target healing choices with our AF. And the new Quickened Aetherflow means that it's a consistent 45sec CD instead of an inconsistent 30-60sec CD.

I think this change will help quite a bit because our mana suffered a lot when we were expected to spam heal to keep the party up during a AOE healer check or when a mechanic was failed and the group takes unnecessary damage.

The buffed Indomitability might make the difference and save us an expensive Succor cast.
The increased range on the fairy tether (and removed disadvantage if the target leaves it) will allow us to use it more situations giving us the chance to use that mana on party healing instead of mt/ot healing as much.

I can't say I'm a fan, they buffed abilities that didn't need it and made one the slightest bit better, nope its still crap. and the real issues we said needed to be addressed haven't been addressed. Indom becoming 500 potency, while nice, wasn't needed, who cares if ET is up every 20 seconds now, we still have to waste far more MP on a 600 or 300 potency heal than the other 2 healers (Lustrate not included), our shields are still crap, Silent Dusk is still a thing, and Dissipation, oh god, Dissipation. Like seriously SE SCH have mentioned from day 1 how bad this skill can be, but no, don't listen to us. At least when it debuted it was by itself, not it clashes horribly with Aetherpact... just why SE, Why do you hate SCH, T.T

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Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

the new Quickened Aetherflow means that it's a consistent 45sec CD instead of an inconsistent 30-60sec CD.

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Its not consistent though. Consistent would be a flat cost reduction to 45sec, the 45sec because of the trait is still inconsistent. you would have to waste all of your aetherflow stacks prior to it coming off of CD, for the 45sec to be consistent, and what SCH is going to do that as we have to watch and use them strategically .

I feel like they buffed a lot of numbers that didn't really need to be buffed (Indom, Excog, ET), but failed to touch any of the actual issues with the class; Dissipation might be worth it now with the new Quickened Aetherflow, maybe. Fey Union still probably takes too long to build up for what it does (less healing gained per Aetherflow use than a Physick - suggestion: make it only cost 5 per tick). Adlo is still weaker than AST's instant-cast copy and still costs more than Aetherflow returns. The existence of Lucid Dreaming and subsequent nerfing of Aetherflow is still robing SCH of part of it's original identity. Selene is still mostly useless. Excog is still to risky for an Aetherflow stack in most situations.

In all I'm worried we might be heading in the same direction that AST did in HW, where we're outrageously strong, but only because the parts that we already did well have been unnecessarily buffed so much that they just overshadow the actual problems that should have been fixed.

Selene is still useless. Dissipation and Fey Union still do not make sense. Still we have pretty terrible raw ST healing overall (decent burst of course). Still weaker shields than AST.

From a mundane fix perspective, I'd still like to see some abilities like Excog and Sacred Soil become cooldowns instead of AF consumers. It's really tough for them to compete with our heals. Also, Dissipation should automagically resummon the faerie after it concludes.

Overall, I still feel like the class is clunky. Shields are too weak to be interesting, so it plays like a WHM with weird buttons and resources.

I agree that the shields don't feel potent enough to fall within the mitigation identity. Succor's shield specifically needs to be increased... Adlo would be fine if it had an increased crit change. I plan on Spearing a Scholar as often as I can, that's for sure.

I absolutely love the change to Aetherflow. that 15-30s reduction will be a godsend.

I like the buffs to Indom/Tactics. I'll never say no to a nice potencty/recast buff. Would have liked to see Adlo's cost reduced, but not a bad compromise.

I feel like Excog is so close to being good. It's that stupid timer on it. The Excog buff needs to stay on the target until its conditions are met, not time out after 45s. As long as it has a time, 90% of the time, I'm going to opt to just cast a lustrate instead, as I don't have to play the dreaded waiting game at that point. Excog as it stands still really feels unneeded when compared to the rest of the SCH toolkit.

Overall, I feel like people are still just complaining because SCH plays differently than in HW. Yes, dissapation and union conflict, that's why you have to plan their usage. I feel like SCH currently is a great class for savage content and a "meh" class for casual content like dungeons.

Changes to Indom? Sweet.
Changes to Excog? Sweeeet.
Changes to Aetherpact? Sweeeeeeeet.
Changes to Quickened Aetherflow? HELL....FREAKING....YESSSSSSSSSSS.


Meanwhile, AST got our Chain Strat. Buff. Y'know, that ONE thing that made us at least useful to have in raids.
Their shields are instant and heal better. But hey I'm sure that SLIGHT buff to our (nearly worthless) 70 ability will help. Too bad the potency on our fairies still wasn't fixed. Still.
Oh and let's not forget our shields still cost an arm and a leg JUST to CAST--that's not even talking about how it compares with AST shields, either.

Were some of the things fixed? Yeah.
Will it really make up for what's happened? Nope.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the buffs...they're just...largely unhelpful.

Sacrifice your fairy, delete your co-healer, delete VerCure and Clemency as well as regens.

EXCOG HAS TO EXPLODE.

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Originally Posted by Born_Free

Changes to Indom? Sweet.
Changes to Excog? Sweeeet.
Changes to Aetherpact? Sweeeeeeeet.
Changes to Quickened Aetherflow? HELL....FREAKING....YESSSSSSSSSSS.


Meanwhile, AST got our Chain Strat. Buff. Y'know, that ONE thing that made us at least useful to have in raids.
Their shields are instant and heal better. But hey I'm sure that SLIGHT buff to our (nearly worthless) 70 ability will help. Too bad the potency on our fairies still wasn't fixed. Still.
Oh and let's not forget our shields still cost an arm and a leg JUST to CAST--that's not even talking about how it compares with AST shields, either.

Were some of the things fixed? Yeah.
Will it really make up for what's happened? Nope.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the buffs...they're just...largely unhelpful.

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Man, you people just can't be pleased, can you... You wanted a nerf to Balance, and you got it.... so now you're complaining about Spear... Oh well.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Its not consistent though. Consistent would be a flat cost reduction to 45sec, the 45sec because of the trait is still inconsistent. you would have to waste all of your aetherflow stacks prior to it coming off of CD, for the 45sec to be consistent, and what SCH is going to do that as we have to watch and use them strategically .

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It's plenty consistent enough for me.

If you're at the point that you really need AF to be off CD, you likely have already used all three stacks so it's at 45sec. If you didn't use all your AF stacks before it pops off CD, you didn't really need the additional "oh shit!" healing that the AF stacks provided.

You guys realize that if the tank falls under 50% HP and you use Excog it's basically an 800 potency Lustrate, right? That's still pretty cool.

I agree that the buffs sort of help out on areas that weren't absolutely needed (I'm still holding my breath for Miasma II, cause I'm pretty sure they just copy pasted the old garbage ability lmao), but they're definitely not a bad thing. Specially since Quickened Aetherflow and Fey Union changes are more kind of QoL.

I still prefer HW SCH over SB SCH, but we shouldn't turn our noses up at these changes. SCH is still in a very good position for raids. It's not mandatory anymore, but the main strength of free passive healing is something SCH simply cannot lose.

I think a lot of people are missing one thing. If our Aetherflow is faster its going to make up for a large portion of exspensive heals because we will be using Aetherflow a lot more.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

I still prefer HW SCH over SB SCH, but we shouldn't turn our noses up at these changes. SCH is still in a very good position for raids. It's not mandatory anymore, but the main strength of free passive healing is something SCH simply cannot lose.

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Yes cuz Raiding is the only thing that matters in the game lol, I mean come on these changes are band aid on a cut off hand.
Ast even with the nerf to there cards are STILL better in almost every way then a scholar...

Astrologion now brings: Raw damage for the party, raw crit for the party, raw skill and spell speed for the party, 20% damage reduction on tanks. This in combination with bigger shields and medicas. Healer Balance, brought to you by the FFXIV balancing team. These people don't know what they are doing. I feel like that just made AST stronger. It now has THREE decent DPS cards. The Balance nerf and the Spear BUFF has only made it so that AST can fish for TWO good DPS raid abilities.

So Sch can now use 12 Energy Drains in ~30 seconds...That seems pretty good actually if a bit situational because of the cost.

I could totally see some shenanigans with opening with Selene, using her speed buff, dissipating her in the process of opening with 12 energy drains in 30 seconds then summoning Eos for the rest of the fight.

I think these changes are enough for me to start playing Scholar again.

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Originally Posted by Xygoz

Yes cuz Raiding is the only thing that matters in the game lol, I mean come on these changes are band aid on a cut off hand.
Ast even with the nerf to there cards are STILL better in almost every way then a scholar...

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This is false. SCH is still more fun to play!

(opinions are subjective and may not be true for all players)

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Originally Posted by Supersun

So Sch can now use 12 Energy Drains in ~30 seconds...That seems pretty good actually if a bit situational because of the cost.

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40 seconds, but your fairy is dead and you have no ogcd healing resources. 12 energy drains and a burden to your coheal is a good deal i guess. ;[

I can image of our aetherflow at 30s CD then we use all the stack then Dissipation the fairy to gain 3 more stack to use to lower the cd to 0 and get another 3 stack . 9 Instance heal

I mean they have made it clear scholar is going to stay in the trash for most of if not all of Stormblood, the amount of feedback about what is wrong with scholar is everywhere yet they don't fix the real problems the job has.

The changes are good buffs, but just not what most SCH really wanted. I think SE want to get SCH further away from shielding, and more to healing like a WHM. Now just let people took the hit, as far as they won't die we have stronger heal to heal them now :P Succer and Adlo just don't matter anymore!

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Originally Posted by Xygoz

Yes cuz Raiding is the only thing that matters in the game lol, I mean come on these changes are band aid on a cut off hand.
Ast even with the nerf to there cards are STILL better in almost every way then a scholar...

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It's not, but when it comes to game balance, raiding is the most important point, cause it's where all the jobs are taken to their extremes.

SCH is still the worst healer for dungeons, coming from IMHO being the best dungeon healer in HW, so yeah, that still sucks a lot. But that's why I levelled WHM first anyways :P

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

40 seconds, but your fairy is dead and you have no ogcd healing resources. 12 energy drains and a burden to your coheal is a good deal i guess. ;[

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I mean most fights start up pretty slow. It would mainly be an opener tactic, and not a bad one at that.

It'd probably be a bit safer to go with 9 in 30 seconds instead and hold on to the last 3 to start healing with.

If you are concerned about the co-heal you could, instead of Selene, start with Eos and open with a Roused AoE to cover you for the 30 seconds you'll be DPSing.

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Originally Posted by Novak_04

Man, you people just can't be pleased, can you... You wanted a nerf to Balance, and you got it.... so now you're complaining about Spear... Oh well.

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LMAO "you people?" Man, you both talk AND act like the bulk of the ASTs I've run with.
"I'm not switching out of Noct, your shields are garbage now, lmao."

Again, get over yourself.
While we're at it, can we nurf your shields? You do know they're instant and heal better than ours, right? Like, you know that, right? You *can't* be that blind. Or stupid. Probably.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

It's not, but when it comes to game balance, raiding is the most important point, cause it's where all the jobs are taken to their extremes.

SCH is still the worst healer for dungeons, coming from IMHO being the best dungeon healer in HW, so yeah, that still sucks a lot. But that's why I levelled WHM first anyways :P

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SCH have absolutely no problem healing dungeons with their kit though, so this is a funny metric to use.

I agree with your point about raiding.

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Originally Posted by Supersun

So Sch can now use 12 Energy Drains in ~30 seconds...That seems pretty good actually if a bit situational because of the cost.

I could totally see some shenanigans with opening with Selene, using her speed buff, dissipating her in the process of opening with 12 energy drains in 30 seconds then summoning Eos for the rest of the fight.

I think these changes are enough for me to start playing Scholar again.

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That is more or less what I did in A8S, yeah. The actual Dissipation was 90sec in so I could get off a second Fey Wind (mostly because this also lined up with when I used my last Aetherflow stack), and then I resummoned shortly before Oppressor flew away.

Also, a standard SCH opener starts with Selene for a pre-pull Fey Wind anyway, and switches out for Eos as part of the pre-pull, because there is literally no reason not to as long as you have at least a 10sec countdown. (Summon Eos at 10, Few Wind about half way through the cast, proceed as normal.)

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Its not consistent though. Consistent would be a flat cost reduction to 45sec, the 45sec because of the trait is still inconsistent. you would have to waste all of your aetherflow stacks prior to it coming off of CD, for the 45sec to be consistent, and what SCH is going to do that as we have to watch and use them strategically .

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It's perfectly consistent, it's just not free. If you use your Aetherflow stacks in the same place, Aetheflow's effective cooldown will always be the same. Using them before it comes off cooldown isn't a waste, because it's what you should be doing anyway. Ideally your last stack in non-planned situations is used within 10 seconds of Aetherflow coming up, so you aren't wasting time with it sitting off CD. This just adds another layer of strategy to their use.

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Originally Posted by Born_Free

LMAO "you people?" Man, you both talk AND act like the bulk of the ASTs I've run with.
"I'm not switching out of Noct, your shields are garbage now, lmao."

Again, get over yourself.
While we're at it, can we nurf your shields? You do know they're instant and heal better than ours, right? Like, you know that, right? You *can't* be that blind. Or stupid. Probably.

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Well any sane AST wouldn't say something like that. If I'm paired with a SCH I'll always go diurnal. Don't generalize all ASTs and most importantly, do not channel your hate towards the job because of people like that. There's no need for name calling.

for now we take what we can get, these changes only help ease some of the frustrations Ive had with our newly acquired SB abilities, however if the devs think we are dumb enough to just be ok with a few band aids and a shinny new indom, they are crazy.

sch still suffers from the fact that the moves in its kit don't play well with each other (dissipation and fey union), some are just plain overpriced for the action in terms of MP (looking at you succor and adlo), our fairys are lacking (poor selene), and we as a class are lacking a general identity (are we dps hybirds, shield healers, pet healers, direct healers). it feels like SE wants us to be able to do all this just not very well for any one in particular. we are the jack of all trades healer that is just "OK" at everything in terms of healing different ways, but we just want to know where we really shine.

Can't say I ain't mad myself at all the smug Astrologians who laugh while claiming they've been nerfed, but don't really talk about the buff they got. Astrologians, the way I see it, have become more useful. It has more useful tools now, it now has a higher probability to be more useful. How can this even be justified. The focus should no longer be on Scholar or White Mage, but on how disgustingly strong Astrologian is.

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Its not consistent though. Consistent would be a flat cost reduction to 45sec, the 45sec because of the trait is still inconsistent. you would have to waste all of your aetherflow stacks prior to it coming off of CD, for the 45sec to be consistent, and what SCH is going to do that as we have to watch and use them strategically .

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If you're not using all your 3 aether stacks prior to the next aetherflow, that's a waste of a free mana-less heal, aoe damage reduction, or aoe heal. It is very much so consistent.

But yeah, I think the Aetherflow change will actually significantly increase Scholar's MP.

I'll have to do some math, but dissipation could actually be worth it now in some situations.

Aetherflow normally restores 10% MP every 60 seconds.

Now it will restore 10% MP every 45 seconds or another way to look at it is 13% every 60 seconds.

Using Dissipation will restore 10% MP with a 30 second CD or 20% over 60 seconds.

Reducing the CD of Aetherflow is exponential in a form. If piety gets high enough there could be a point where the increased MP regen may actually be enough to pay for the fairy.

Situational still, but it's getting a lot closer to actually being something rather than something you only pop at the end of the fight for an extra 3 EDs.

I'm actually a bit disappointed now that the Spear is getting changed. It would have been fun to test it with Aetherflow and Dissipation to get a 12 second Aetherflow recast, and the ability to cast 12 Energy Drains in ~20 seconds and 18 Energy Drains within a minute lol.