RDM QoL change: Impact should overwrite the Jolt II hotkey when it procs.

When Impactful procs, turn Jolt II into Impact. This should be a thing because having a dedicated button for Impact on my hotbar is dumb. PVP does this really well.

Only if the proc isn't timed, otherwise you could cast impact with 1 second left and then, interrupted. How fun that would be.

It's SE's (completely uninteresting) attempt to add complexity to RDM. It's a stupid skill that shouldn't exist in the first place since it doesn't do anything interesting at all.

But IF they simplify it, it should become a trait that improves Jolt II (dotted lines around the skill) and just add that 30 potency that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KirigiriKyouko

Only if the proc isn't timed, otherwise you could cast impact with 1 second left and then, interrupted. How fun that would be.

---

As others have mentioned in previous topics, it could easily be made to function like how Ruin IV procs for Summoner. Ruin IV replaces Ruin and Ruin III when proc'd, and also isn't interrupted if proc is lost while casting.

It shouldn't take you 30 seconds to get your Impact off anyway...

They should remake Impact, it has such a cool animation to just be pruned, but the way it is now it is nothing but a improved jolt II, you could very well just call it jolt III.

I'd rather them add some kind of new mechanic around impact. Red mage is really fun, but was definitely designed with the mindset of older jobs being simplified. That being said the job already has a fairly simple rotation around a couple of procs with a few oGCDs to weave in, but I would rather not see the job simplified down even further. Ruin IV for SMN feels really lazy to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nezia

They should remake Impact, it has such a cool animation to just be pruned, but the way it is now it is nothing but a improved jolt II, you could very well just call it jolt III.

---

I look at and surprised it isn't AOE really. Even if it was a jolt 3 in its use and a small amount of aoe then it would at least be different enough. It is a beautiful looking spell. Feels kind of wasted as just a jolt 3.

A QoL change I would like are the spells like Impact, Verstone, and Verfire still go off if the timer runs out. Pretty annoying when you're 2/3 through the cast and then randomly get interrupted because the buff wore.

You could use a macro.

/macroicon "Jolt II"
/ac "Impact" <t>
/ac "Jolt" <t>

That casts Impact if available, otherwise Jolt, which becomes automatically Jolt II after you get the level lvl 62 trait. Or you could also use Impact for macroicon, if you need a more visual clue when it's available.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KirigiriKyouko

Only if the proc isn't timed, otherwise you could cast impact with 1 second left and then, interrupted. How fun that would be.

---

Since we're in QoL changes this shouldn't happen either. Once a spell has begun casting losing the proc shouldn't interrupt it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larin

You could use a macro.

---

Macros are bad on a skill like this.

I was kind of surprised when this wasn't the case considering the Ruin IV thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yorumi

Since we're in QoL changes this shouldn't happen either. Once a spell has begun casting losing the proc shouldn't interrupt it.



Macros are bad on a skill like this.

---

It's really only bad for losing the queue but if you find yourself accidentally using jolt II instead of impact proc, then the macro would do more dps. Repeatedly failing to impact when available is a much bigger loss than the queue.

Using macro on GCD skills is like saying "let's get a negative spell speed bonus".

The problem with macro is they are made on purpose to not being castable before being available unlike real GCD icons. So as you can't select them before in order to land a skill as soon as it's available, you will lose precious seconds over time pushing the button after the skill is available. In other words, there is no way to optimize our dps this way.

They don't want us to make macro to simplify the job that much and especially that way, or they would just have made the job directly not needing the macro for such used skills.

I actually did several macro to try it and saved up to 8 keys to press. One button for VerFlare/VerFire/VerThunder (2 less icons), same for VerHoly/VerStone/VerWind etc (2 less icons, total 4), one button for Fleches and Contre sixte (one less, total 5), one for Acceleration and Swiftcast (one less, total 6), one for Impact/Jolt II / Jolt (yes for roulettes in low level dungeons, it matters) (one less, total 7), 2 buttons to the 1/2/3 melee combo (one less, total 8).
It's a lot easier to read, but it's way slower to play because of the way macro are made to be slower.
If someone is curious to try it I can give them to you. But be aware of what i said before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

It's really only bad for losing the queue but if you find yourself accidentally using jolt II instead of impact proc, then the macro would do more dps. Repeatedly failing to impact when available is a much bigger loss than the queue.

---

This is why we train. The job is easy enough to learn to get the reflex of using Impact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

It shouldn't take you 30 seconds to get your Impact off anyway...

---

I've had plenty of instances where I got back to back Ver procs long enough for the Impact buff to fall off. It definitely does happen. If you're prioritizing Impact over anything other than Jolt II you're doing it wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliniell

I've had plenty of instances where I got back to back Ver procs long enough for the Impact buff to fall off. It definitely does happen.

---

It's a rare case to have both VerFire + VerStone both up all this time. If you like to spam only one until it's over, then it's your fault.
And if you happen to be lucky enough to get them all, you are lucky enough and it's ok to lose one stack of Impact. It's a 50% chance to have VerStone/Fire (even if some people tend to say it's a fake number which procs way more often), then it means you had it like 5-6 proc in a row and that you had both VerFire and VerStone both up.

The "plenty" of times it happen to you mean :
1) you're lucky enough.
2) the game actually has wrong tooltip.
3) you're not realizing you just spam one magic while you could have use Impact to try to proc the other one.

If it doesn't happen plenty of times, then it doesn't matter enough as you are already very lucky to get other spells providing more total magic and more potency.

Btw, he said "you shouldn't", which is not a "that never ever happen, I prioritize Impact over everything". You exagerate what he said.

Edit : Having 5 VerFire/Stone in a row has 3,125% chance to happen. The thing is we all feel it does happen more than that. Are we all lucky? Are the RDM ghost buffed? No one knows...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fannah

snip

---

The point I'm trying to make is that replacing Jolt II with Impact would cause issues on occasion because there are instances where you aren't casting it before the buff runs out, or is below 2s left (in which case your cast will be cancelled and thus lead to a loss of that GCD). They could fix this by making it so that as long as you begin casting Impact before the buff runs out it'll go off regardless, in which case replacing Jolt II with Impact would be fine.

Also, why would you need to cast Impact to proc the opposing magic? You can just go from Verstone -> Verthunder to attempt to proc Verfire. I'm not sitting around casting one side of magic to build that meter up, as you have to keep them balanced or you waste casts rebalancing. I have no idea where your assumptions that I'm 'spamming only one until it's over' is coming from.

Just to mean that as both spells are as powerful (Impact and VerFire/Stone), and that both last 30sec, you can use Impact instead of VerStone to try getting VerFire (or VerFire to get VerStone). As no one's sure it will work, you use the one with the lowest timer buff left. If it works, it's great, if it doesn't, just try with the VerStone to get a VerFire.

It just depends, it's what the Red Mage is about. And sometimes the luck makes our black and white magic unbalanced, so you will prefer only have +4/+4 than +9/+0. It depends.

Edit : When he said "It shouldn't take you 30 seconds to get your Impact off anyway", he never meant anyway like "even when you have less than 2sec left to cast it even if it will be canceled". It was kinda obvious to me. No need to be accurate about this.

Replacing Jolt by Impact would mean the system would be made to make it work, so getting rid of this stupid cast cancel at the end of the buff. For now it can work this way as they are not on the same icon. But SE is not stupid enough to make such system if it was on a single icon and even if they would do it, they would fix it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larin

You could use a macro.

/macroicon "Jolt II"
/ac "Impact" <t>
/ac "Jolt" <t>

That casts Impact if available, otherwise Jolt, which becomes automatically Jolt II after you get the level lvl 62 trait. Or you could also use Impact for macroicon, if you need a more visual clue when it's available.

---

And for this you lose the ability to queue, and Impact will typically be skipped over, straight to Jolt, if within a minimum wait period (1 second) of a previous command.

Frankly, I'd consolidate the melee combo before impact. Impact still offers a fairly compelling choice depending on your mana needs and thus having a separate button for it is fine to emphasize that weight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

Frankly, I'd consolidate the melee combo before impact. Impact still offers a fairly compelling choice depending on your mana needs and thus having a separate button for it is fine to emphasize that weight.

---

What compelling choice? I mean, beyond boolean if(Impactful){Impact}

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

What compelling choice? I mean, beyond boolean if(Impactful){Impact}

---

In situations when you have to melee combo right damn now, Impact offers a way to hit both your Mana pools (Double dipping with jolt, or with Aero/Thunder should one mana be lower but still within the thresh hold)

It is admittedly a rare scenario, but it exists where Impact would be more beneficial than Fire or Stone.

The priority system for Red Mage isn't difficult but it has a fair amount of branches, and Impact is part of that. Because it remains part of this branch, having its own button is fine. The melee combo is just a 123, and it would ultimately save more buttons than Jolt->Impact

I'm honestly hitting so few buttons, that I don't feel like its entirely necessary. . . but I'm not against it if they do change it.

I imagine 5.0 will bring us some new buttons to press, so why not trim the fat?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

And for this you lose the ability to queue, and Impact will typically be skipped over, straight to Jolt, if within a minimum wait period (1 second) of a previous command.

---

I tried it all the way to 70, works fine with macro, just grey out impact icon replacing jolt icon so you know that impact is been proc.

maybe later on down the line ill have a need for this, but red mage is one of my least busy control set ups (I think i have 18 spots open for abilities on my crossbar/extended/doublecrossbar) but i do agree with how pvp does all these QOL things and they do them well that I really wish they'd give us the option to either use these or make these as macros ourselfs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

In situations when you have to melee combo right damn now, Impact offers a way to hit both your Mana pools (Double dipping with jolt, or with Aero/Thunder should one mana be lower but still within the thresh hold)

It is admittedly a rare scenario, but it exists where Impact would be more beneficial than Fire or Stone.

---

The question isn't Impact vs Fire/Thunder it's Impact vs Jolt 2. What situation, if you have impact procced, would you choose jolt 2 over it? Besides, of course, "There's <2 seconds on Impactful".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fannah

-snip-
Edit : Having 5 VerFire/Stone in a row has 3,125% chance to happen. The thing is we all feel it does happen more than that. Are we all lucky? Are the RDM ghost buffed? No one knows...

---

in a 10 minute fight, according to some napkin math I just did, you can expect to cast aero/thunder 100 times. This, in itself, makes that 3.125% chance much more common.

In addition, between acceleration, swiftcast, and guarantee procs from holy/flare, the ratio of procs to no-procs is actually much higher realistically than 50%.

For example, if you're gaining (on average) half a proc every 5 seconds, acceleration starts at the top and bumps your first gcd to 1 proc in the first 5 seconds. At 35 seconds, acceleration comes off and adds another half proc, putting you at 4.5 procs. To simplify things, cut the melee combo out of the "timer" and call it a proc every 40 seconds, putting you at 6.0 procs at 40 seconds. You'll note that you only need to spend a proc every 5 seconds, which actually puts you at a boon of procs, more than you can use.

Compound this with swiftcast, which, every time its used, provides an additional half proc and simultaneously snips out a proc that you would have had to spend. Compound it further with the fact that every time RNG fails you and you need jolt, you get a free proc.

All of these factors, managed properly, create a situation where you're generally needing to cast jolt very few times. To fish an immediate example, a top-20 score of neo exdeath, this red mage casted jolt a total of 12 times out of his 187 non-melee/non-finisher spells. or 6.4%. To take a random sample of one of my shinryu runs, 15 out of 190, or 7.89%.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliniell

I've had plenty of instances where I got back to back Ver procs long enough for the Impact buff to fall off. It definitely does happen. If you're prioritizing Impact over anything other than Jolt II you're doing it wrong.

---

Yup! This is a common occurence! I, in fact, would recommend prioritizing impact over stone/fire if impact would otherwise fall off. It helps you fish for another proc. It's kinda like moving up the jolt you'll eventually have to cast on the schedule in order to not actually have to cast jolt again. While it does generate 1 less mana, in order for that to be relevant it would actually have to prevent you from using a melee combo, which is... unlikely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anyone suggesting running macros on your gcd

suggestions of using macros on your gcd

---

Don't do this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

In situations when you have to melee combo right damn now, Impact offers a way to hit both your Mana pools (Double dipping with jolt, or with Aero/Thunder should one mana be lower but still within the thresh hold).

---

But so, too, does Jolt II, which is the only alternative of concern here, as that is the one being recommended for replacement.

It's not like we're suggesting that Veraero be replaced with Verstone or Verthunder with Verfire. There is no reason, ever, to use a Jolt II over Impact when Impactful has sufficient duration to get the cast off.

You could just as easily call it Enhanced Jolt, and apply the Impact animation thereupon, and nothing in your range of decisions would change. You will have simply saved a button. That's it.

Honestly speaking, I don't play RDM much, but when I levelled it I always felt Impact to be nothing more than button bloat, you could say that they could've just add it's extra potency and Mana to Jolt 2 and call it a day, but I'm a bit ignorant on its true usage so take this for what you want

Although it isn't QoL, I'd like VerWind/Thunder to reduce the recast time from 2.5 to 1.5sec (and some potency adjustment to compensate the dps gain)
I really dislike how every 2 cast I stand there like an idiot waiting for the GCD to end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylvain

Although it isn't QoL, I'd like VerWind/Thunder to reduce the recast time from 2.5 to 1.5sec (and some potency adjustment to compensate the dps gain)
I really hate how every 2 cast I stand there like an idiot waiting for the GCD to end.

---

That would severely cut down on your mobility and your ability to double-weave. And what, then, of your dualcasted Scatters?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

That would severely cut down on your mobility and your ability to double-weave. And what, then, of your dualcasted Scatters?

---

It definitely would affect mobility and dual weave. But I'm sure it would also make the job much more enjoyable, spells would flow better, gameplay would improve since you'd always need to make quick decision. (1sec faster basically). With Dual Cast anouncement I thought RDM would be the Mirror, instead of having long hard cast he would have faster weaker spells. This is kind of the case but after some time playing it those pause every 2 cast just kills the fun to me.
I forgot about scatter ^^.

Of course I'm very aware that from a purely dps/math PoV it would be a nerf. As you said: less mobility, less weaving and faster gameplay are also more prone to making mistakes.


I still wish a change like this would happen at some points, it's a bit like the melee combo you do. The fact that you Dash in and quickly unload 3 GCD makes it more enjoyable. Imagine this phase without the 1.5 recast time, it would feel (to me at least)slow and cluncky.