Drk question. When not to Grit?

I know it sounds like an obvious question but I'd like someone to answer this please. SMN is my main, I lvled drk for fast ques like most people after sam+rdm got introduced. When I am MT I never turn off Grit. I only turn it off if I am OT or we tank swap. When I MT should I be turning it off from time to time for blood weapon to boost my dps? My primary concern is losing hate if I MT and turn off Grit. Also dying. That's on the list too! I tanked Sephirot EX back in HW. I didn't have a static for savage alexander but I've tanked a fair share of difficult stuff for being an off job. Should I stick with what I am doing or learn to stance dance?

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Originally Posted by EvilJoshy

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If threat is an issue:

-Make sure DPS are dumping aggro and ask for a voke-shirk from your co-tank.
-Power Slash an extra time.
-Piggy-backing off the above, Dark Arts Power Slash now *doubles* the enmity modifier as opposed to just raising it from 5.5 to 6.5x. So there's that.

Not dying:

-Not too much I can say here. Keep TBN on cooldown while also trying to time it properly. With DRK's current mitigation kit you can't really do much else without using something you should be saving for a tank buster.
-Make sure you know the encounter well enough to know when the damage is coming.

You have no obligation to stance-dance outside of savage content. It really just comes down to personal improvement/optimization. Part of that is on you but it also requires support from other people, so I wouldn't suggest experimenting for the first time with it in the presence of pugs.

If your in a trial or raid 1 power slash on pull drop grit and never go back.

When DPS don't generates a lot of aggro and you know you won't lose aggro. Save Others cooldown for tankbuster and use TBN a lot ( timing for big hits so you can instantly Bloodspiller). For most encounter the sweet spot is after your first Dark Art and Power Slash. If aggro is still low, drop Grit and Dark Art Carve and Spit and continue DPSing. Only use Power Slash combo if aggro almost catch up.

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Originally Posted by Dizzy_Derp

If your in a trial or raid 1 power slash on pull drop grit and never go back.

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You also have to check your dd's gear in comparison to yours. If their gear is notably better than yours, it's not bad to do 2 power slashes (with DA).

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Drk question. When not to Grit?

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When you don't have an ice mage :P

These are the obvious ones but whenever there's a burn phase and you aren't taking dmg or actively tanking something (let's say Zenos becomes invulnerable while his three swords are placed at different corners) or similar

When you aren't taking a whole lot of damage and Blood Price is on cooldown, drop grit and use Blood Weapon and so on

If your healer isn't dpsing at all in 5 mans as well basically, at least he'll have to heal some more.

I'd say it's the same as PLD's Sword Oath and WAR's Deliverance.

• Turn off Grit once you get good enough hate, then turn off Grit and start whacking DPS combos with Blood Weapon!

• Turn Grit back on only if your healer is not capable of keeping you alive despite good usage of damage mitigation CDs. If close to losing aggro, execute your hate combo instead of turning back on.

• I don't recommend turning off Grit when tanking big pulls in a dungeon. It will put a lot of stress on the healer.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

You have no obligation to stance-dance outside of savage content. It really just comes down to personal improvement/optimization. Part of that is on you but it also requires support from other people, so I wouldn't suggest experimenting for the first time with it in the presence of pugs.

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Can we just sticky this to every subforum on the site? Too many new Tanks are being force fed the idea that tank stance is somehow bad.

Stance dancing is something skilled people do when they've learned an encounter sufficiently that they can predict the 'tank buster' attacks. We need to train the new Tanks to be tanks first, Advanced play after that is maximizing DPS lol.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

Dark Arts Power Slash now *doubles* the enmity modifier as opposed to just raising it from 5.5 to 6.5x. So there's that.

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When did this happen :O

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

When did this happen :O

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Ever since 4.0 iirc. DRKs in Lakshmi Ex for example uses this opener on the boss, as opposed to having to do Grit. Susano on the other end is pretty much straight from Grit for 1 Power Slash combo into dropping for no penalty.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Can we just sticky this to every subforum on the site? Too many new Tanks are being force fed the idea that tank stance is somehow bad.

Stance dancing is something skilled people do when they've learned an encounter sufficiently that they can predict the 'tank buster' attacks. We need to train the new Tanks to be tanks first, Advanced play after that is maximizing DPS lol.

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In HW I joined a new static and right at the beginning I told them to turn "off" their parsers. Don't even look at your DPS. If your getting the most out of your CD's by ignoring mechanics your not making progress. If you make it to the end of the fight without dying and lose to the enrage you didn't fail. You know the fight now. At that point you need to learn when to pop your CD's, come back when you got better gear or get a better party :P

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Originally Posted by EvilJoshy

In HW I joined a new static and right at the beginning I told them to turn "off" their parsers. Don't even look at your DPS. If your getting the most out of your CD's by ignoring mechanics your not making progress. If you make it to the end of the fight without dying and lose to the enrage you didn't fail. You know the fight now. At that point you need to learn when to pop your CD's, come back when you got better gear or get a better party :P

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I believe DPS parsers are better used after beating the boss first so that people don't focus on high DPS, but rather doing all the mechanics. I agree to your statement. :)

I mean, no one has to blame anyone when one DPS is doing lower DPS than usual, but still complete the duty! We'll just say: "You're doing good, but you can always optimize your rotation!" or something positive :)

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Can we just sticky this to every subforum on the site? Too many new Tanks are being force fed the idea that tank stance is somehow bad.

Stance dancing is something skilled people do when they've learned an encounter sufficiently that they can predict the 'tank buster' attacks. We need to train the new Tanks to be tanks first, Advanced play after that is maximizing DPS lol.

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This so god damn much. The idea that a Tank using their TANK stance is frowned upon is just puzzling.

Honestly SE should just get rid of Tank stances and have it be a trait or something. Obviously not so simple as that, as things will have to be changed, but they seem to send a mixed message. I feel like they WANT you to be in tank stance more, but then Blood Weapon exists and Fell Cleave exists. It's really weird.

Not sure if someone mentioned this or not, but a lot of it depends on your healers. I usually start off pushing my limits without my tank stance, and then turn it on if I notice the healers are having a hard time, OR if I notice things might be going down the wrong path (like if one of the healers die).

A classic example of this is in Susano, after the third Stormsplitter later on, one player will get locked and everyone will have to jump to the other side of the map. In most of the parties I have been in, this phase is always risky as hell to do without my tank stance. I don't know what it is, it kinda feels like my healers just suddenly forgot about me. Even though I have Rampart + Convalescence on, if I'm not on tank stance I just keep seeing my HP repeatedly drop, and I've even died a couple of times to this. -_-

So pretty much just drop Grit as soon as you feel you have enough enmity, and see how your healers react to it. This is how you learn what you are and aren't able to get away with, and you'll improve over time. But it will largely depend on how good your healers are. And if you have REALLY bad healers, dropping your tank stance will usually end up in you dying.

Sorry for not giving you any answer about your topic but, i just want to make a fun comment with tanks we can meet right now, and for them, it should be "when to ACTUALLY KEEP YOUR FUCK*NG GRIT ON "

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

A classic example of this is in Susano, after the third Stormsplitter later on, one player will get locked and everyone will have to jump to the other side of the map. In most of the parties I have been in, this phase is always risky as hell to do without my tank stance. I don't know what it is, it kinda feels like my healers just suddenly forgot about me. Even though I have Rampart + Convalescence on, if I'm not on tank stance I just keep seeing my HP repeatedly drop, and I've even died a couple of times to this. -_-

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Hahaha. I can tell you why that is (I main WHM): we're so focused on the mechanic + the person who's about to take the lightning damage that the tank's HP status isn't being evaluated as frequently. We also think it's "OK" because we know there's no tank buster going on during this phase so surely you must not be dying....right? It's bad but I consciously noticed I do that and try to have a regen or two up on the tank during this.