[SUGGESTION] Trying jobs before character creation

A friend of mine is considering switching from WoW to XIV, and I've been trying to help him as much as I can with questing, where to go, most efficient way to get things done, etc. He's still stuck in the worst part of the story so I hope he doesn't quit before it starts to get better. However there's something he mentioned that really got me thinking: he wants to try a class before committing to playing it.

Before you guys chime in "PotD!"- we tried that. He wasn't really feeling it as a BRD so we went to get him THM and jumped in from floor one. PotD doesn't let you access job-exclusive skills if you don't have the job crystal and things die too fast for you to get a handle of how to play the class properly. It's fast, and can give you a general sense of "I might like it" or "maybe not for me", but it's not sufficient for helping people get a real feel for what they want to invest their time in. He's only got time for leveling one job right now and I feel awful telling him that there's no way for him to find out if he likes it or not until he's committed a lot of time to starting over and over again from level 1, stalling the MSQ and all the content it hides, until something sticks.

So I wonder if SE could do something like he said WoW does- you can try a class at max level before rolling it and starting the game. Like an extra, optional part of character creation when you can select your starting class, only the "try class/job" option would take you to a SSS-like instance to play around and see if it suits you. It'd really help veteran MMO players like him who are willing to make the jump but aren't willing to spend time (and possibly money) on something he's not sure he'll like after a lot of investment on his part.

I keep telling him "it gets better I swear" but he's not really sold on it (and I wouldn't be either if I was in his position- it's a really weak endorsement). He's willing to buy SB and a MSQ skip potion to catch up but only if he likes the game, which is entirely fair. If he could easily find a class he's willing to work on I think it'd be a much better experience for him. He's already had enough trouble figuring out where to go and slogging through all the hand-holding and terribad early story- why not ease the drudgery a little and convince him (and others) the game really might be worth their while by letting them see what they can look forward to?

The problem is, some jobs aren't available at character creation. So would your suggestion only apply to jobs available at character creation, or all jobs? If the former, maybe the one they like is not available at the start. If the latter, if it's one available at the start would they want to slog through levelling something they don't like (or buying a potion) in order to do it? Let's put in a scenario then.

Joe Bloggs would like to play FFXIV. He hates tanking and healing, and the only DPS class with a playstyle that interests him is Red Mage. He's an MMO veteran having played MMOs for 15 years. He's not willing to buy a jump potion or story skip potion and the jobs available pre-SB bore him to tears.. Referring this back to your suggestion, how should we deal with him? I understand it's an extreme example, but I put it in to try and help build your suggestion further, as I really like the idea (and didn't know WoW actually does it!)

I thought WoW only did it for their boost potion, not for people starting at level 1.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

The problem is, some jobs aren't available at character creation. So would your suggestion only apply to jobs available at character creation, or all jobs?

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Since SE decided to lock a those jobs behind level restrictions, I'd leave them out of the try-outs. It would just confuse new players wondering why they couldn't play that awesome DRK or SAM job they tried right away. For people who are going to skip up or are simply wanting to maximize their time, having the base classes and jobs available makes the most sense. It's kind of sucky for people who ONLY want to play those jobs, but SE has made the decision to gate access to them already. I'd be fine if those restrictions went away but since all the new ones except NIN don't have a base class it'd be awkward to start them from level 1.

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Originally Posted by Pence

I thought WoW only did it for their boost potion, not for people starting at level 1.

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It's still peace of mind that SE could offer. Right now players have to pick one and hope it works or try to cobble together an idea by reading tool tips and watching vids. It's not ideal at all. What better way to encourage people to buy your stuff if you let them see what they can look forward to and make sure that they get what they want?

In this game, if you don't like your starting class, you can just switch to another class without creating a new character.

Not a single MMO I have played let you play a class before you actually select that class. Why dont you sgow your friend some youtube video showing. People playing the jobs to give him a sense of what is the playstyle of those jobs he is interested at.

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Originally Posted by Felis

In this game, if you don't like your starting class, you can just switch to another class without creating a new character.

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This. Legitimately once you hit the Level 15 jobquest for your beginning job you can change to whatever job you then please, trying them all out to see which one suits you for a fair bit before the first dungeon. Even then about the only bait and switch I remember existing in the character creation screen involves Conjurer and Arcanist, the latter of which being described as the healer instead of the former - and even then you can pick up on that mistake rather quickly and fix it once you finish the initial part of the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

if it's one available at the start would they want to slog through levelling something they don't like (or buying a potion) in order to do it?

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We have to do that already... (horrible design decision, by the way.)

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Originally Posted by Pence

I thought WoW only did it for their boost potion, not for people starting at level 1.

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Yeah, even though it's available without one, it was intended specifically for boosting a class.

The game already offers an extensive free trial. Try whatever job you want, and if you don't like it try another character/job. I'm really not sure what the issue is. Not to mention that you can Fantasia at any time.

Your friend already plays an MMO, he should know and be used to better skills being locked behind level requirements. I think the game's good as is, since you can switch at any time if you decide you don't like the play style of your chosen class. If he's that time constrained, have him watch youtube videos on different classes.

I know you can change at any time. My point is he doesn't have the time to keep trying all the classes until he finds something he likes. Between IRL obligations and already being a vet from another MMO, he's having a poor experience in XIV because he's not sure what he wants to do and can only play an hour or two a night, but the class he thought he'd like at the start isn't working out for him. He just wishes he could try everything at Max level and settle on one thing to play instead of taking a crap shoot from level one every time. I think it'd be a helpful feature for newbies and vets alike to see what they are in for and ease some of the frustration for those on a time limit.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

I know you can change at any time. My point is he doesn't have the time to keep trying all the classes until he finds something he likes. Between IRL obligations and already being a vet from another MMO, he's having a poor experience in XIV because he's not sure what he wants to do and can only play an hour or two a night, but the class he thought he'd like at the start isn't working out for him. He just wishes he could try everything at Max level and settle on one thing to play instead of taking a crap shoot from level one every time. I think it'd be a helpful feature for newbies and vets alike to see what they are in for and ease some of the frustration for those on a time limit.

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Unless you get a boost potion, you still have to start with level 1. Best recommendation is just to have him watch videos, try out everything, and occasionally remind him that unlike WoW, not everything in this game is just handed to you on a silver platter.

The OP is asking for something that ALL MMOs should have, without even questioning it.

Most people are going to decide in the free trial whether or not they want to play XIV, and before someone starts in with "Well, if they're going to be THAT impatient...", please don't.

First of all, there's no such thing as "impatient money" that's somehow worth less than YOUR monthly sub. They take everyone's money and put it into developing more content for the game, regardless of who it comes from.

Second of all, when it comes to low level gameplay vs. high level gameplay, FFXIV's may as well not even be the same game.

With the low level gameplay being as sluggish and bland as it is, it's impossible to imagine how intense it actually becomes at higher levels (usually from level 40+). I've recently brought a few friends into XIV and I've gone to great lengths to assure them that, while combat is fairly "blah" at lower levels, it picks up substantially later on.

If you could have a one-boss trial in which you could take any max level class and try fighting one boss (or healing NPCs as they fight a boss), it would not only give players a solid idea of what they can expect from a class at endgame but also show players just how intense XIV's combat can get at endgame which is something that most wouldn't guess from playing the first few dungeons.

XIV boasts an endgame which is every bit as robust and challenging as that of any other MMO I've played, but it sits behind a leveling process which serves as a very long tutorial that generally offers little in the way of challenge.

I wouldn't mind being able to try out a character in a special training area (not the actual game though) with no cutscenes and with a training dummy. That would also allow people to see what their character looks like with in game lighting and to hear the combat voices and other emotes which are unavailable in character creation.

For now you can look up all the skills for each job and quite easily determine their rotation:
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Job

If you don't understand the rotation then look up a play guide or video. Forums can also be a great help. Just describe the kind of job you would like to play and people will compare the alternatives for you.

That said, I expect a "Veteran" in MMORPGs to be able to do two things:

a) read Tooltips and get at least some basic idea how it will work in real combat.

b) check out Youtube-Videos to check the vibe of a class. especially dummy Videos give a good glare at combat flow, animations and Rotation. I rerolled to my new main as well after checking the Susano dummy video for all classes. An experienced mmorpg-player should be able to do that.

I can somewhat support that request for new players, but not a veteran.

I'm not sure why some of you think that letting people try things before they commit is somehow making them work less or "handing" it to them. It's just being user-friendly and showcasing the best of the game to players. Just because what we have now suffices and not giving players a preview is normal doesn't mean XIV can't or shouldn't do it. XIV thrives because of the care that SE has towards the newbie experience in addition to the support of the player community. I want my friend to like this game. He wants to like it too. But we've been having a hard time of it because SE- and apparently a lot of the players- feel like everyone should have hours and hours to spend leveling everything from level 1 before settling in. MMOs aren't only played by people who have a lot of time to kill any more. If YoshiP is serious about XIV being the kind of game that you don't have to play every day, a class/job tryout feature would be a great way to back up that philosophy.

I don't hold any ill-will against people who think that it would casualize the game or not be as beneficial as I believe it to be, but I hope you guys can see my point instead of repeating and upvoting the "just sink hours into all of them, duh!" responses. That's not the point ITT.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

But we've been having a hard time of it because SE- and apparently a lot of the players- feel like everyone should have hours and hours to spend leveling everything from level 1 before settling in.

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I mean... it is a Final Fantasy game. Isn't that basically what everyone expects from the franchise? Lots of story, long cutscenes, and plenty of spiky-haired emo teens saving the world.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

So I wonder if SE could do something like he said WoW does- you can try a class at max level before rolling it and starting the game. Like an extra, optional part of character creation when you can select your starting class, only the "try class/job" option would take you to a SSS-like instance to play around and see if it suits you. It'd really help veteran MMO players like him who are willing to make the jump but aren't willing to spend time (and possibly money) on something he's not sure he'll like after a lot of investment on his part.

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I don't think this is wise.

There's two things at issue:

3 Jobs are level 30, and require the HW expansion in their own Guild buildings.
2 Jobs are level 50, and for some dang reason they put the starting NPC's for both in Ul'dah. While the storyline starters make sense to have them somewhere, RDM did not have to start in Ul'dah, it could have started in Limsa Lominsa. SAM was setup with a coliseum battle, but didn't need to either.

The jobs would need to all be re-tooled to start at level 1, and the corresponding storylines. Because of the presence of PotD, basically nobody bothers with the job storyline until AFTER they've gotten to level 50. I've seen plenty of level 60+ Gladiators, Marauders,Arcanists and Conjurers in as sole class in PotD for whatever reason.

Since most of the jobs don't actually exist until level 30, you're just playing the precursor classes, and especially with Arcanist, you don't really know how these jobs change until then.

It takes about 8 hours, including watching all the cutscenes to get from level 1 to level 15, you can change your class at this point, and you can do POTD at level 17 once you get through the first 3 dungeons. This is also where you get your Retainers, Company Chocobo, and so forth. Basically the game doesn't really start until level 17. At that point you can pretty much change classes at whatever whim you want, and still under the free trial limits.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

The OP is asking for something that ALL MMOs should have, without even questioning it.

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Most people decide if they are going to play a game by maximizing what the free-trial offers them. If someone only has one hour per day, and it's a 14 day free trial, that is still something that they can hit. SE removed the 14 day limit months ago http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...1a05669dcdadae

On the other hand many MMORPG's are freemium games, and you generally hit a brick wall without spending money very early on in the game, and are nagged to spend money at every opportunity.

Many companies built crappy Freemium games because a fool and their money is soon parted. So comparing FFXIV to any subscription title (which is pretty much just WoW) is the only fair comparison. A Bunch of MMORPG's came out, failed or floundered and switched to freemium or were canceled early or before they even went to release. This is going to keep happening as long as everyone is stuck in the Fantasy-is-cheap-and-easy box. You're basically asking customers which versions of humans, elves and dwarves they want.

I have always seen MMOs as a time commitment and if choose to play it cause it has long term value. Too many people these days want to just turn MMOs into another play it and beat it game and move onto something else cause "they don't have time for all that"

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Originally Posted by Talec

That said, I expect a "Veteran" in MMORPGs to be able to do two things:

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Thing is, you can be an MMO veteran and still not truly know how a class will FEEL to play until you've actually played it.

You can understand every last little mechanic about a class before leveling it and still find it doesn't click with you at higher levels (like I did with MCH...).

There's nothing LOST by allowing people to try max level classes out, at least on a training dummy with some AoEs around. Like I said earlier, it can absolutely work as a carrot on a stick, seeing as how the low level combat is extremely sluggish in comparison to the late game combat.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Most people decide if they are going to play a game by maximizing what the free-trial offers them.

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But like I said earlier, the real problem is that the "pressing 2 buttons while waiting for the 2.5s GCD to end" lower level gameplay is absolutely no indicator of what you can expect from higher level combat.

The 2.5s GCD makes sense later in the game, given the number of oGCD abilities classes have and the sheer number of things going on, but early level gameplay is a massive snooze in comparison.

If I had to judge FFXIV only from it's first 10-15 hours of gameplay (without having bought it), I'd shy away from picking it up.

But judging it from endgame instanced combat, I'd absolutely recommend it to everyone.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

I have always seen MMOs as a time commitment and if choose to play it cause it has long term value.

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...And you don't truly know the "long term value" of an MMO until you get to endgame and see how it plays.

FFXIV has a fantastic endgame, unlike a number of other MMOs. It's one of the few MMOs out there that would WANT players to evaluate it based upon how classes play at max level...