Don't nerf cast time on Holy Spirit, nerf the potency

Hi Squeenix, healer main who subs tank here. Please don't gimp my Oath Gauge stimulant, I kind of like the ability to generate Oath Gauge while in Shield Oath.

Instead, nerf the obscenely overtuned 430 potency the button has. There is no legitimate reason for the button having a potency value that high.

Also, while you're here, please consider removing both Requiscat and Spirits Within.

Requiscat is clearly a button that was created for the sake of a button. You could have just tossed its effect on Spirits Within, but even then it would still be a pointless button that was added for the sake of it... not to mention the balance issues it is causing (ref: Holy Spirit dealing too much damage).

Spirits Within is just button bloat for the sake of button bloat. There's no reason to have this button anymore. It had a purpose back when it had the Silence (as niche as that was), but that purpose is now gone and the button is just a 300 potency nuke off the global cooldown... which is not a valid reason to bloat our hotbars.

Edit after patch notes for 4.05:

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

>Holy Spirit potency reduced from 430 to 400

Thank you Squeenix, thank you so much for meeting my request. Even if it had nothing to do with my thread, you handled the nerf the way I hoped for and I am grateful for that.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Also, while you're here, please consider removing both Requiscat and Spirits Within.

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How about no? if anything we need more oGCD skills as those makes jobs feels faster and more fun.

You realize that cast time and gcd are two very different things, right?

Currently you can cast Holy Spirit, move around a bit and cast again without wasting any Requiescat uptime. Weaving in Circle of Scorn and Spirits Within between casts is really easy as well. That's what's going to be nerfed, not the number of casts per Req window.

See Harz' response. As it stands now, that little 1 second delay between casts give you a lot of opportunity to weave other abilities in or just move and reposition. I think it's warranted.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Also, while you're here, please consider removing both Requiscat and Spirits Within.

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Pffffft, no.

It's actually a bigger nerf than people realize. Not having having any oGCD time means you have no window to auto attack, and PLD's auto-attacks are very very strong.

That's not really the downside. It's the OGCD's that are the biggest hit. Holy Spirit rotation restores 100 Oath Gauge in Shield Oath. While casting Holy Spirit x5 you could Shelton and Rampart a Tankbuster, Reprisal a Party Buster, and Intervention a targeted person, all before Requiescat ran out. The free Oath Gauge put to good use. Now you have to chose between maxed DPS Holy or cooldown usage. Many more Holy's will be interrupted while dodging mechanics now as well.

Auto attacks are an afterthought.

I think it's a bit weird that PLD's "caster phase" is far more forgiving than any actual caster (aside from RDM). As long as it's equal or close to the standard GCD then it's fine, imo.

If it's over, it's just WAR all over again where they sacrifice fluidity for the sake of "balance."

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Instead, nerf the obscenely overtuned 430 potency the button has. There is no legitimate reason for the button having a potency value that high.

Also, while you're here, please consider removing both Requiscat and Spirits Within.

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Hahaha what.. Disagree!

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Originally Posted by Coatl

It's actually a bigger nerf than people realize. Not having having any oGCD time means you have no window to auto attack, and PLD's auto-attacks are very very strong.

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I'm more concerned about movement during mechanics tbh. Half of my requiescat phases right now happen when I need to move the boss or dodge a targeted AOE or do something on the battlefield. Oh, or block something. I think they'll probably leave the cast time alone and drop the potency to 400 because if paladin can't consistently use holy spirits in every fight it makes their DPS much harder to balance. 400 potency would be like spamming slashing-debuffed Royal Authority.

Still, I wish they would have nerfed the physical side instead. Holy Spirit is fun and it feels rad when you get a Ewer card or something.

This very thing was just brought up on Mogtalk. Apparently, it is the potency that will be reduced because it was never intended to be that high. The devs forgot to bring it down when they increased the cast time.

In all of my tanking (limited to like 50 instances atm only been tanking for a couple of weeks) i have never used Holy Spirit, i do however use requicast and spirits within every chance i get. So i totally disagree with the premise of this thread

It's weird that they have to 'cast' something to gain some gauge, while the other tank classes get it by using their combos and have actions that give a good amount instantly to them.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

There is no legitimate reason for the button having a potency value that high.

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If Warrior has 500 potency Fell Cleave, why Paladin can't have 420 potency Holy Spirit?

They don't need to remove requiescat, it's meant to be a magic FoF, and it's no coincidence the cd is the same as FoF, it was designed around you switching between them, and also designed with the intent of encouraging you to fill your MP bar before emptying instead of randomly throwing Holy Spirits every time you get to 1700 MP.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

If Warrior has 500 potency Fell Cleave, why Paladin can't have 420 potency Holy Spirit?

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Why can't WAR parry spells if PLD can block them? Different jobs should have different strengths, and thematically PLD is the 'immovable object', and WAR is the 'unstoppable force'.

Don't remove anything and don't change holy spirit theres no need for any of it. Paladin is in a good place right now, whats needed is to fix WAR and DRK.

If the potency is made much lower it will barely become worth using (other than for building gauge when you have to keep Shield Oath up)

Keep in mind since it's a spell it halts auto attacks during cast time.

If its just pot nerf down to 400 i am totally cool as its nice round number and doesn't change gameplay, 400 pot attack that can be buffed is far from being worthless so quit whining.

I agree with the potency nerf instead of a cast time nerf, then 1 second currently givesjust enough time to weave in ogcds

Lol ummmmm....what? Oh yeah I get it, this is just a fun post. While your at it, please remove RA and GB combos because tanks should just tank and these cause button bloat. Also, cover isn't needed if I'm doing my job properly, Remove TE and have flash do damage (but not to much), if flash does damage then I don't really need SoS, and remove the dps buff from resquiest and outright remove FoF. Then I think pld would be pretty close to a true tank.

When you know your post is bad and you have to post it in General instead of the Tank forums, hoping that more people will get their eye on it... and statistically have more chance at someone agreeing.

The decision has already been made, all we can do now is brace for impact. As they hate to make changes in the middle of a raid tier, I'm not expecting any more changes till 4.2. Four dot two... forty two... oh god <grabs towel>.

Button bloat? lmao PLDs have had hardly any buttons to press for 4 years and you want to dumb that down, how easy do you want this game to be?

123 123 123 Thats about it other then throwing spirits and circle all we do is press 3 buttons, unless we wanna do our dot and dps comb

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

Auto attacks are an afterthought.

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Sword oath is around 15% increase in damage delt and you only get the added damage from auto-attacks hitting, they also attack at nearly twice the rate than the other tanks to equal 1 of their auto-attacks so it's actually more important than you'd think.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

Sword oath is around 15% increase in damage delt and you only get the added damage from auto-attacks hitting, they also attack at nearly twice the rate than the other tanks to equal 1 of their auto-attacks so it's actually more important than you'd think.

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It's the flow and mechanics of a class that are far more important. Being able to use OGCD's in between casts, being able to finish casting before having to dodge, putting Requiescats full timer to good use. There's fluidity, pacing, and fun involved in that. Auto attack damage is just another number added to our total that the devs raise and lower against our will. Auto attacking during Holy Spirit means absolutely nothing when it's our "total dps" that the game is balanced around.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

If Warrior has 500 potency Fell Cleave, why Paladin can't have 420 potency Holy Spirit?

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because WAR doesn't have Goring Blade. both the other tanks lost their DoTs, PLD is the only one that still has one. it makes sense that PLD is less about big hits and more consistent smaller hits.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Also, while you're here, please consider removing both Requiscat and Spirits Within.

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Most people don't like this but i agree. Most jobs got trimmed and even though Spirits don't serve much real purpose without silence it's still there. i'm not for reducing overall PLD damage, if they want to maintain the potency they can lower the recast for Shield Swipe. i think they wanted to keep the Spirits Within name though (it'd be fine merged with Requiscat so that it's one thing).

>Holy Spirit potency reduced from 430 to 400

Thank you Squeenix, thank you so much for meeting my request. Even if it had nothing to do with my thread, you handled the nerf the way I hoped for and I am grateful for that.