This is a Deployment Tactics topic.

I'll be very specific about THIS one skill.

Among all things in the Scholar job, I think that what upsets me the most is the fact that if you want Deployment Tactics to be fully made useful, you have to use Eye for an Eye. There might be a way to make it even BETTER without forcing anyone to use an specific Cross-role skill - that is, Eye for an Eye, which isn't even THAT good in order to be picked as one of our precious 5 cross-role slots -; that is, to keep it or remove it - I don't really mind - of the spreading effect, but also adding Excogitation to that - be it as a trait or as a built-in effect.

In my opinion, being able to spread Excogitation to a whole raid in moments of high raid damage would be extremely useful AND rewarding to raid positioning, knowing that it'd allow the Scholar to fully heal a party by himself with 2 Aetherflow stacks - Indomitability + Excogitation AoE combo would be quite a healing.

Keep in mind that the other two classes CAN do that naturally with their AoE healing skills (while Scholar is deprived of any spammable AoE healing other than Succor, that, in this very situation, kind of "succs".)

This may be just me having completely insane ideas on how that very skill could be improved and change the way Scholars would behave in raid-wide heavy damage incomes in a single bash.

Thoughts?

just bumping because I like the idea and how it could address aoe healing on the job.

I've said this a lot myself. Excog should be passed via Deployment, however, in addition, I don't think it should cost Aetherflow. It's a marginally better Lustrate but can't crit. Just make it a cooldown and remove the Aetherflow aspect. The cooldown for Excog allows it to be up every other Deployment anyway. One more thing, Excog should also automatically go off if the timer runs out or reaches the 50% threshold. This way, it still gets a use no matter what. Earthly Star automatically blows up after the two 10s timers count down with no input. Why is Excog different?

i feel like they wouldn't do this because it seems overpowered.

1) agree that they should remove E4E from Deployment
2) Excog on deployment seems like a logical replacement
3) to prevent being overpowered, Deployment should only deploy Excog if no Aldo is deployed.
4) Excog definitely needs to restore HP when the timer expires

I like this idea.

I actually like this idea a lot. It's similar to Earthly Star in a way, but gated by another CD and Aetherflow. I think Excogitation should have a lower CD or no Aetherflow cost too.

I've been thinking this same concept and I like this. This is exactly the sort of thing SCH needs to bring it's AOE healing up to par with WHM/AST. For example in SusEx, whenever he casts his triple hit raid AOE, deploying Adloquium/Excogitation beforehand to soak and heal the first two hits, while using Emergency Tactics and Succor for the last hit will bring SCH to where WHM is with Cure III.

I don't think this is at all overpowered due to the long cooldown of Deployment Tactics (120s). Even if you manage to get a crazy powerful shield with a crit Galvanization from Adloquium to spread--that's a cool story bro--but adding the Galv and the Excog together defeat each other's purpose: one allows you not to take damage, the other heals you. Since they're both 30s in duration, a strong shield will likely just nullify the need for Excog on any player who isn't the main tank anyway.

(I also agree Excogitation should heal at the end of its duration regardless--a healer should not be wasting a heal especially when that heal has a special non-MP cost.)

I always just used Succor + Emergency Tactics + Succor to fully heal my parties. This was you get the shields to try and help the party out some while you get off your second larger burst heal. It is a fast enough CD that you can do it pretty much every time you need to. I have no played SCH since SB release though.

I'd rather you be able to use Deployment offensively to spread Chain Stratagem, because it just feels awful to use outside of bosses.

I feel like including Excog into it would be overkill, imagine if you Critlo before spreading. A 15k something shield with a 650 potency heal bomb.

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Originally Posted by Pentt

I'd rather you be able to use Deployment offensively to spread Chain Stratagem, because it just feels awful to use outside of bosses.

I feel like including Excog into it would be overkill, imagine if you Critlo before spreading. A 15k something shield with a 650 potency heal bomb.

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Someone suggested Chain Stratagem should be able to be Bane'd, and I gotta agree with that. Keeps Deployment with the healing and defense aspect, while Bane keeps the offensive potential.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

i feel like they wouldn't do this because it seems overpowered.

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I don't think it would be all that overpowered. It would probably be somewhat under utilized. There'd be at least a 120 second CD, on top of all the other CDs in question (exco, stacks, and indom), and you'd have to hold back your bigger healing spells in the meantime. Plus you'd be holding at least 2 stacks back and missing out on the MP regen. I suppose it would be okay if there wasn't continuous raid wide damage going out a whole ton though.

I like the idea of excog being deployed, but not with its current CD nor its potency.
120s and 300 potency to align with deployment tactics could indeed be good (and without AF consummed)

Can definitely get behind this. Ast gets a completely free 720 potency heal every minute, a 650 heal for scholar would hardly be op, especially if it requires Aetherflow. Both abilities would then reward stacking somewhat, Earthly when the heal goes off, deployed Excog before the attack hits. Would make the two different enough to retain at least some form of originality.

Yes, Ast has a 720 potency heal but, deployment tactic put shields.
So having a 650 aoe heal + shield is too much.
That's why with a reduced potency, it could be good.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Yes, Ast has a 720 potency heal but, deployment tactic put shields.
So having a 650 aoe heal + shield is too much.
That's why with a reduced potency, it could be good.

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Agreed. And to add... 300 potency shield + 650 AoE heal that procs sub 50% HP for a total of 950 effective "healing." The 300 potency shield can be further boosted with internal sources:

- Largesse at 20%+
- Fey Illumination at 10%+

External sources:

- Defiance at 20%+
- Convalescence 20%+

Honestly I think we're forgetting how powerful Deployment Tactics is, especially when interacting with player's abilities. While it's rare for groups to resort to these kind of tactics if they care not for optimisation and progression in savage tiers (at minimum iLvL), we need to consider how things are not by themselves but in tandem with other players, abilities and even mechanics.

Also bare in mind that if this suggestion became a reality it shifts the priority order to Adlo -> Excog -> Deploy, which will work in our favour so that Deployment Tactics will actually acknowledge Galvanize applying; however, if Adloquium Crits, the player only has a split second to figure out whether or not to apply Excog or not because most of the time, critlo will shield a majority of the damage incoming.

Excog should "detonate" after 30 sec for a 650 potency Galvanize for an additional 30 sec.

As someone said, just make it impossible to spread both then. If you're suggesting Deployment to change the potency of Excog from 650 to 300, while still retaining 650 potency when NOT spread, then I agree with you. That was however not what you said in your post, and simply nerfing Excog to 300 potency no matter what would make it even more useless than it already is on a single target.

Of course, reducing the potency for aoe only and if it could be deployed.
Otherwise, 650 on single target is fine and shouldn't be changed, 300 would be insignificant

This would be absolutely insane for Susano Ex's smash after swords and on O1S. Probably not a good call. At least definitely not at 650 potency.

In the same manner, noct Ast has innate +15% on all healing spells, while aspected helios heals for 150 potency and adds a shield totalling 150% of hp restored. 150 potency x 1.15 x 1.5 = 258,75 potency shield. Adding Earthly Star on top of that is 978,75 potency effective healing. Every minute, as opposed to Scholar's Deployment which is every 2 minutes.

Now, Ast is insanely powerful and should imo as an Ast main be nerfed (or the other 2 brought up to the same level), but with current numbers, deployed Adlo + Excog would hardly be op. Unless Adlo crits, which would basically invalidate Excog in most situations if it only hits below 50% and isn't changed to an explosion in the same manner as Earthly Star. Still, i never suggested being able to deploy both, but I understand that's not easy to understand.

I honestly love this idea, and the idea of bane spreading chain stratagem.
I think its terrible design that SCH needs to choose eye for eye as a role skill to fully utilise its native job skill...