Dark Knight is well rounded or even too much ?

all is in the title, i am only concerned with 4vs4, i don't care a lot about balance in FL.
I just feel unmend is a little too much.
He can eventualy stun, silence, decast a healer one more time with unmend, and eventualy make healer to be too far for heal a melee for exemple.
I think tank have to get some carry power offcourse.
But i still feel Dark knight have a little too much power and war need something, at least a stun.

WAR is definitely in a bad spot right now. Completely pales compared to DRK/PLD.

DRK does seem a little over the top, mostly because of unmend. Fix unmend so that it doesn't drag you and cause 2 seconds of full interrupts and it will be fine. Maybe give it a 15s CD.

I think the spammability of the Blackest Night for a 3,000 HP shield is a little nuts, but then again I think Cover is a bit crazy too. I might consider slight increase to the recast of both.

I'm also really not sure where they were going with DRK's weapon skill potency either. On top of the incredible utility, it also keeps pace with (if not exceeds) WAR's damage.

Unmend is frustrating, but it does cost a quarter of a DRK's MP. Like Koltik said, a higher recast might do it good.

The nutty aspect of Unmend is that there is no immunity to it. In FL you can be chain dragged to death.

I know you said you said you don't care about FL, but I want to point out healers are terrified of DRK. Whenever a healer sees me they immediately hightail it out of there. And the ones that don't get yanked and promptly die. The end result is the same either way, the healer is separated from the team. And that cost is nothing because of Souleater. I have fun with it, but DRK is a little much against an uncoordinated team.

This is a really weird topic to read when they were theoretically pretty bad in S4 solo q, but unmend is pretty annoying. They can basically chain cc a healer until someone dies.

I feel it's a little much. I mean I've still taken them on and won as my bard but as my Astro they are annoying even as a bard they are annoying but Astro they are just hell. A drk gets ahold of me on Astro I'm dead like I'm not getting away. It's actually the only job I hate taking on.

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Originally Posted by MaloraYuki

I feel it's a little much. I mean I've still taken them on and won as my bard but as my Astro they are annoying even as a bard they are annoying but Astro they are just hell. A drk gets ahold of me on Astro I'm dead like I'm not getting away. It's actually the only job I hate taking on.

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That is impressive. I've never seen a Bard win that fight. They would just use unmend and lowblow in unison then stand on top of you the whole time

I really wish the other tanks had that pull as well. It's really strong and a death sentence to many.

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Originally Posted by Pomo

I really wish the other tanks had that pull as well. It's really strong and a death sentence to many.

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WAR has it, Holmgang, it pulls, only work on a different way.

DRK strength is its incredible CC toolkit and its shield. Also to not underestimate SoulSurvivor + ReducedHealsRecieved it is quite deadly, as long as drk has MP it is a serious threat to not underestimate even on a new player in pvp.
Also the limited choices the system grant us kinda forces us to choose how to deal woth certain roles, for example if you make a CC counter build with traits and addActions, you will have less opportunities tp deal with burst damage/cleaves.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Leon

That is impressive. I've never seen a Bard win that fight. They would just use unmend and lowblow in unison then stand on top of you the whole time

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It wasn't easy lol it's been dumb luck really, caught them off guard or running away. So cheap shots but it was opportunities lol

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Originally Posted by AriaFairchild

The nutty aspect of Unmend is that there is no immunity to it. In FL you can be chain dragged to death.

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I know it sounds kinda broken but man its so fun specially if you do 8 in a row, someone needs to do a vid where 8 DRK's do 8 pulls in a row while being at 10y apart from each other, you could literally drag a enemy healer from one side to other in mere seconds :D

Make unmend spend blood gauge and MP

Drk is really op right now.I havent lost a 1v1 against any class and i even 1v2 many times.He must be toned down a little.

i tryed the Concentrate skill a little when i do some 4vs4

concentrate : Creates a barrier preventing Stun, Sleep, Bind, Heavy, Slow, Silence, and knockback effects.

actualy it don't prevent the unmend of dark knight to pull you and decast you.
if SE want to keep unmend like this, it would be nice to have an immunity for it.

IMO, I'm not sure if having a DR for unmend is enough. DRK will still have lots of utility/cc with silence/stun/healing debuff/unmend (also a gap closer which makes hard to get out of his range) while doing great damage (at least, comparing to other tanks). Correct me if I'm wrong but they should not have both. That's just my opinion but with the current way cc works, it feels like even a bad use of CC Isn't really punished anymore.

yeah offcourse keep it balanced is not giving everything to one tank, and 2 others tank with less thing. it make sense

If they kept pvp like before, so with pve skills on pvp, i think the tanks would have been really balanced: war with stun and zerk, pld with its multi tool.plus holy spirit silence and drk with stun silence and unmend pull, no ppl would say drk too op if war had its strong burst and a stun

I would like SE to give unmend the same treatment as the other CC moves: 10s immunity to unmend for the victim and make concentrate nullify it. Again just like all other CC moves. Currently a couple DRKs can literally toy with someone to no end and you cant use concentrate as a counter to it. Feels like SE forgot about unmend when they were adding CC mitigation.

Playing 4v4 as drk i noticed many things.
1. The shield is awesome, first it is insta, i think it has same cost and potency of clemency, but it is an insta shield and not a direct heal, it healps the healer to keep people alive.
2. Stunlock, it is reaally scripted: pull>stun>silence>pull, healers with no concenctrate and/or increased dr are likely goin to be unable to act for 50% of the match more or less
3. Soul survivor+decreased heals recieved is deadly if you have a heavy burster in team, for example a monk that can deal up to half a target hp in 2 buttons paired with a mch
4. Enemy healer is down? Pull and stun enemies for easy kill.
5. A lot of macroable skills for more advanced plays: soul sorvivor, plunge, umend, the blackest knight
6. Plunge, it resets when you land an assist for a kill or when you do the kill, this allows great mobility.

Sure is strange to find myself commenting on a thread regarding how DRK has become "out of hand". This, as someone that's waited to step out of wallowing in the deepest depths of trash tier since records began – well, okay, str gear made it mildly threatening, gear crutch ftw. I've been patient for this...

'Tis a pity it is under the scheme of these newfangled parameters, by that I mean the stripped down skill makeup, that's neither here nor there though.

I don't particularly find Unmend as menacing as many see it as. Yes, I know it can be utilized in a triple interrupt clincher full well, but it is a costly move... and I personally hate how limp the drawback feels in use. I was thinking it'd be a Death Grip (go on, hit me), not a loosely dragging... thing.

Disclaimer: I am not suggesting for it to be buffed in any way, just pointing out that's it's quite easy to waste it as much as it can be useful, especially in the absence of communication; in the Feast format anyway. I do have my other classes so I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of it, before anyone ventures to that.

If anything if it was more instant, the interruption effect wouldn't feel as punishing; if just slightly.

The Blackest Night, now you have something there. It's dual benefit, you use it to save lives, and you gain resource. It's hella spammy. It makes YOU unkillable, too – unless utterly overwhelmed. It's just a crazy ass move. I will tend to prioritize most of my MP for shielding because it's just that good. Something needs to be tweaked there, defo. CD at the least.

Though not a thread about WAR, WAR is invariably being talked about in here... so I'll state my piece, being … ahem... passionate, about them from a former position of "silent admiration". What's that? My eye's twitching? Naw, just a birth defect I assure you.

What WAR needs is a greater means to intercept so it can be brought up to speed with its disruptor brothers in arms. That's what tank role is looking like right now, as well it should, disruptors. People that set up kills and also deny kills, primary assist units. A stun would go a long way to improve them. Their pacing in winding up to a crescendo is off as well. But...

<inhales> I will punch a GARO horse through the boundary of the Thirteenth World if WAR returns as red icon masquerading as blue, 'roided out freak show that it's been since the start of HW, until now. <exhales>

<straightens out collar> Ahem, good day to you sirs and madams. Carry on slaying.

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Originally Posted by ThreeBeastSmile

Yes, I know it can be utilized in a triple interrupt clincher full well, but it is a costly move...

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Now that you mentioned this WAR's Onslaught also works as interrupt as it has that added 3y knock back. So unmend acting similar way might not be that "OP" in the end as both costs important resources.

its just knock back is not exactly similar to unmend, knock back have an immunity, unmend don't have immunity.

i wont say yay or nay, except im enjoying myself in pvp more than I ever have :D

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Now that you mentioned this WAR's Onslaught also works as interrupt as it has that added 3y knock back. So unmend acting similar way might not be that "OP" in the end as both costs important resources.

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I think we may have just stumbled on a sampling of solutions, then. Make Unmend's drawing effect check against some immunity parameters, lessen the time it takes to move in space while being dragged somehow OR just demote the pull factor to be the same as Onslaught's. ...and if it's still a bother, tweak the CD a tad. Leave the MP cost alone I say.

That means a lot more in Frontlines, or in the event you're matched against multiple DRKs in 8v8, granted... but the chain manhandling thing is the most glaring aspect to it, I figure.

The wind is not completely at their back though, as I must say that the Power Slash Combo is obtusely underwhelming; unless in the context of 4v4. When you think about it, what does PLD have? Rage of Halone. What does their debuff do? Reduces attack potency AND healing potency. What that means is, when placed on a healer, that affects the entire enemy team for those 15 secs. It's a very powerful asset. Whereas Power Slash only affects the target concerned. Only their incoming heals vs heals going out to the whole team. I know the values are different, but I'd think there's something to that logic I expressed.

My preference now of course, but I want to be constantly regaining my MP. A DRK with MP is a happy and useful DRK. I feel like every time I choose to alternate to Power Slash I'm wasting time where I could be recovering a far more valuable resource, and my health at that. Now, I'm not sure what I'd like to see Power Slash's effect changed to... I just know I'm unhappy with the debuff it offers currently. It seems like the wimpiest "off combo" of the tanks.

Aye it has the combo-ability with a SMN but that's a pretty strict double act there, and once more, applicable to 4v4 forays and naught much else. A touch too situational, if I do say. I'm just taking into account every PvP mode with that assessment.