Traditional Tank

I'm a traditional tank (pld). I stack Vit and I don't do savage. But I don't understand the hate towards str tanks. Yeah, some of them die, and those that do should probably equip more Vit. Str is a pld's primary stat.As a healer 90% of your abilities scale off mnd. As a dps 90% of your abilities scale off str/dex/int.

As a pld -
str affects: fast blade, fight or flight, savage blade, riot blade, shield lob, shield bash, rage of halone, shield swipe, circle of scorn, sprits within, total eclipse, goring blade, clemency, royal authority, and holy sprit. (15 abilities)(didn't list sword oath just to give vit argument a chance)

Vit affects: Devine veil (1 ability)

Mitigation that does not scale with either stat, but I'll list them anyway: Sentinel, Shield oath, rampart, reprisal, hallowed ground, Shelton, passage of arms. (I'll include rng mitigation that still doesn't scale) Flash, bulwark, anticipation, awareness. (11 abilities)

Even if you add the skills that don't scale at all with either stat, to the ability that scales with vit. Str is still our primary stat. The rest of the abilities in our toolkit are situational and still don't scale. Most tanks are not mad about "muh deeps". They are mad because 15/38 scale off str, 1/38 scales off vit, and 22/38 are fixed by S/E and we can't do anything to increase there effectiveness. By baring us from str, now 37/38 abilities are completely in the hands of S/E. As in tanks can't min/max their stats to improve the effectiveness of their abilities. Where as every other role/job in the game has that kind of freedom. Anyway that's just my thought.

I agree 100%. Vitality should not be considered tanks primary stat. Having enough HP to comfortably make it though content is import, but beyond that it doesn't really matter very much. Perhaps if healing power was always a % of maximum hp things might be different. But a healers heal will recover the same amount of HP no matter how much life I have.

I don't even find tanks strictly required in most of the content in this game. I've done plenty of dungeons with 3 dps and 1 healer and it was just as fast. Most of the content just isn't hard enough to need an HP sponge.

The only legitimate role of tanks right now in 90% of the content in this game is to allow Duty Finder queues to pop, because SE proclaimed that every party must contain at least 1 tank.

They really need to make vit do more than just give HP, maybe have it increase hp restored or defense for tanks only. But then they'd need to increase enemy damage to compensate, making tanks more necessary than it is right now...maybe that's a good thing.

The job atm is boring, with very little interaction. Is it any wonder that tanks just go for full damage and play like DPS? I should not be able to tank while eating a sandwich and watching TV.

Sorry to intrude, may I ask where you can get Passage of Arms? Although I'm lvl 70 it's unavailable on my list. Tried the guild, but there's nothing there.

Pld job quest at 70

Can you tell where to find this quest?

The gladiators guild in uldah.

Thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

I'm a traditional tank (pld). I stack Vit and I don't do savage. But I don't understand the hate towards str tanks. Yeah, some of them die, and those that do should probably equip more Vit. Str is a pld's primary stat.As a healer 90% of your abilities scale off mnd. As a dps 90% of your abilities scale off str/dex/int.

As a pld -
str affects: fast blade, fight or flight, savage blade, riot blade, shield lob, shield bash, rage of halone, shield swipe, circle of scorn, sprits within, total eclipse, goring blade, clemency, royal authority, and holy sprit. (15 abilities)(didn't list sword oath just to give vit argument a chance)

Vit affects: Devine veil (1 ability)

Mitigation that does not scale with either stat, but I'll list them anyway: Sentinel, Shield oath, rampart, reprisal, hallowed ground, Shelton, passage of arms. (I'll include rng mitigation that still doesn't scale) Flash, bulwark, anticipation, awareness. (11 abilities)

Even if you add the skills that don't scale at all with either stat, to the ability that scales with vit. Str is still our primary stat. The rest of the abilities in our toolkit are situational and still don't scale. Most tanks are not mad about "muh deeps". They are mad because 15/38 scale off str, 1/38 scales off vit, and 22/38 are fixed by S/E and we can't do anything to increase there effectiveness. By baring us from str, now 37/38 abilities are completely in the hands of S/E. As in tanks can't min/max their stats to improve the effectiveness of their abilities. Where as every other role/job in the game has that kind of freedom. Anyway that's just my thought.

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I'm not sure what you hope to gain by doing a numerical comparison of the number of abilities affected by a stat; it's an odd and ultimately useless way of thinking about things.

Mitigation does scale with VIT, just not in a direct way like damage and STR. Mitigation increases effective health, or projected time to live (TTL) in the case of avoidance or rng mitigation. In both cases, the effect of mitigation is multiplicative with maximum HP.

For a damage ability, you might have 50 base damage, 300 potency, and 50% damage increase from str, for 22500 damage (obviously the numbers are out of thin air, but you get the point).
For a mitigation "ability", you might have 10 "base life [life per vit], 10000 vit, and 20% mitigation, for 10*10000*1.2=120000 effective health.

This is all conceptual anyway, comparing the stats in this fashion is just weird.

Stop worrying about what is our primary stat as if it makes any difference whatsoever to how SE considers us. They aren't going to say "holy crap, we were wrong! STR is definitely the primary stat of tanks, we better get rid of fending accessories!"

It's completely irrelevant where they balance our damage, as long as the game is balanced around that number (both in terms of dps checks, and enmity management). Being able to "choose" between effective health and damage has always been strange in the context of FFXIV, where nobody else realistically does. It doesn't matter if they give us str accessories or vit accessories, and it certainly doesn't matter how much our abilities scale with each, as long as our damage and enmity function consistently and appropriately within the content provided.

If SE doesn't want tanks to wear str gear instead of vit gear to push phases faster, that is their design decision, and saying "STR is our primary stat" won't change that.

1750

1350

One of these is more 'fun' than the other.

What I hope to gain is understanding since most people are saying tanks are complaining about "muh deeps". That's not the case. Maybe your ok with S/E holding your hand in terms of enimity, but most of us are not. Stop worrying and just go with the flow is your suggestion, despite s/e asking for feedback? Did you think the forums were to just sing their praises? Also, I remember in 2.x where dps did have stack vit to clear mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Keiko_Kumiko

Can you tell where to find this quest?

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Originally from the Royal Promenade or w/e on the 2nd floor. From Jenneys, I believe.

just wanted to point out that flash does scale with attack power which is tied to strength. flash is basically a high damage less potency attack. (it was base 600 potency prior to the recent patch, no idea what it is now) with full strength right side accessories you can literally hold aggro on trash mobs in sword oath. the only thing that doesn't change flash is damage % modifiers

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Originally Posted by Bravely_Default

just wanted to point out that flash does scale with attack power which is tied to strength. flash is basically a high damage less potency attack. (it was base 600 potency prior to the recent patch, no idea what it is now) with full strength right side accessories you can literally hold aggro on trash mobs in sword oath. the only thing that doesn't change flash is damage % modifiers

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Oh I didn't know that. That's good to know. Lol at least it was good to know =/ rip str.

I don't directly hate the idea of tanks using str. What I do hate though is that str tanks have become a crutch for our entire role in general so that instead of asking SE to give our role more definition and make tanking more fun, we instead yell about our dps being cut when "dps tank" was a symptom of the problem to begin with. And the problem being that FFXIV is not designed well for tanks.

Its a problem when the tank role's main concern is dps. Currently we are just a tankier dps class, but it shouldn't be that way. Its a result of lazy design regarding tank gameplay from 3.x and we deserve better.

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Originally Posted by Dregenfox

I don't even find tanks strictly required in most of the content in this game. I've done plenty of dungeons with 3 dps and 1 healer and it was just as fast. Most of the content just isn't hard enough to need an HP sponge.

The only legitimate role of tanks right now in 90% of the content in this game is to allow Duty Finder queues to pop, because SE proclaimed that every party must contain at least 1 tank.

They really need to make vit do more than just give HP, maybe have it increase hp restored or defense for tanks only. But then they'd need to increase enemy damage to compensate, making tanks more necessary than it is right now...maybe that's a good thing.

The job atm is boring, with very little interaction. Is it any wonder that tanks just go for full damage and play like DPS? I should not be able to tank while eating a sandwich and watching TV.

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You mean you put together groups from your friend list, and everyone can presumably tie their own shoes and scratch their heads while rubbing their stomaches. In other words, not your typical DF group, heh.

As of right now I see vit has no use what so ever because as of right now everything can be mitigated on str accessory the extra hp is useless only good for lazy healers

there are tons of players out there giving str tanks a bad name. They see good tanks using them and just ewio it. Problem is at that hp lvl any mistake is deadly. Your riding a fine line and your mitigation has to be on point to survive. The majority hopping the bandwagon do not have the skill required for that hp threshold so people end up looking down on it when they keep seeing dumb tanks die. Which sucks.

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Originally Posted by Dizzy_Derp

chopped

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I like it that's how tank should be played all skill Base and high reward if you make a mistake you die for you mistake I was force to make the quick decision when I am on str accessory it help me improve better and faster making every cd counts it's so fun and reward regardless but then again there are tank out there with str accessory and think he totally invisible but not for me when I wear str accessory I think of myself as a tank with a sharp blade in hand wearing leather armor :D sheltron a perfect timed swipe on susano 1st phase is the best reward by itself because it's all skill

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

I like it that's how tank should be played all skill Base and high reward if you make a mistake you die for you mistake I was force to make the quick decision when I am on str accessory it help me improve better and faster making every cd counts it's so fun and reward regardless but then again there are tank out there with str accessory and think he totally invisible but not for me when I wear str accessory I think of myself as a tank with a sharp blade in hand wearing leather armor :D sheltron a perfect timed swipe on susano 1st phase is the best reward by itself because it's all skill

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Well yeah I like it too but the majority of players suck shit at this game and the more bads running around in full str the more the community us going to see it as a problem which like I said sucks.