Instead of just asking to buff things, I've focused on looking for other solutions that are small and simple, yet clever and effective. These ideas are more about playability and the feel of the class than raw power. My goal is to present viable ideas that the Dev team could implement without needing to tone them down first.
Adjustments
Dissipation:
If Faerie Gauge is at 50 or higher, consumes Faerie Gauge instead of un-summoning Faerie. Restores Aetherflow based on current Faerie Gauge (50 for 1, 80 for 2, 100 for 3). If Faerie Gauge is 40 or less, it will consume the Faerie, restoring 3 Aetherflow stacks.
Remove 20% healing buff and 30s summoning lockout.
Fey Union:
Initial activation range is still 10y, but effect range is increased to 20y and deactivates automatically if the target is more than 20y away.
Reduces damage taken by linked target by 15% while active. (This is in addition to the current healing effect.)
Deployment Tactics:
Remove existing effect.
Transforms the next Adloquium or Succor cast to restore no HP and to add the amount that would have been healed to the barrier.
Reduce cooldown to 30s.
Excogitation
Change triggering threshold from 50% to 65% of max HP.
Enhanced Bane:
New Trait, ideally acquired somewhere between lvl 50-60.
Potency is no longer reduced based on the number of enemies.
If necessary, this can replace Quickened Aetherflow.
Selene:
Silent Dusk:
Replace with a new ability that increases physical defense, similar to Fey Covenant.
Embrace:
Increase the potency of Selene's Embrace to be 50 Faerie Potency stronger than Eos's Embrace.
Faerie Potency (both Faeries):
Remove the odd level scaling from 50 to 60 and adjust potency of Embrace, Whispering Dawn, and Fey Union down to true level.
Commentary
Overall, these adjustments are actually very modest in terms of power increases:
- Damage Reduction on Fey Union would be a decent buff.
- The removal of the healing buff on Dissipation offsets nicely against the removal of the faerie summoning restriction. Consuming Faerie Gauge for Dissipation is more of a lateral move as it is an alternate use of an existing resource, not a new resource.
- The new Deployment Tactics would increase SCH's overall shielding capabilities without raising potencies, and at the expense of losing the potentially godly power of a deployed Crit Adlo.
- Excogitation change is neutral.
- Enhanced Bane would be a nice buff to AoE for dungeons but have a negligible impact in a raid setting.
- Changes to Selene’s skills will bring her to roughly equal with Eos.
- Faerie Potency adjustment would be neutral at 60-70 and actually a nerf at lower levels.
Dissipation: This will make most of the player base happy, both those who don’t like the current Dissipation as well as those who don’t like Fey Union. Pre-70, this would solve the main complaint with Dissipation (no Faerie for 30s) while remaining a relatively neutral change by removing the healing buff. At 70, this increases the importance of the new Faerie gauge, reinforces the SCH playstyle of having multiple options to spend a shared resource pool, and maintains the flavor or concept of Dissipation.
Since it is an alternative method of utilizing the Faerie Gauge, the overall increase in class power at 70 would be small. However, since 3 Lustrates are a bigger healing gain than 10 ticks of Fey Union, a buff to Fey Union would be in order.
Fey Union: It seems the biggest issue is the skill deactivating if the target walks outside of the short range of the tether. I have limited experience playing at 70, but I suspect the issue is that if the faerie is more than 10y from the target, it will move to exactly 10y away and activate Fey Union. If the target moves just a little in the wrong direction, the tether is broken.
The damage reduction buff is much more interesting than a simple potency increase and will help Fey Union stay relevant with the new Dissipation.
Deployment Tactics: This will make SCH competitive with Noct AST in the shielding dept without buffing the potency of any abilities. While AST will still have a superior overall shielding toolkit, being able to claim the strongest shield (even if by a small margin), will have a disproportionately large effect on players' perception of the class.
This creates a nice juxtaposition of Deployment Tactics and Emergency Tactics basically having opposite functions. Being able to deploy a 300 potency shield through Succor will be much more user friendly than the old Deployment Tactics, which required everyone to stand close together. Reduced cooldown will convert this from a "use when everyone stacks for damage" move to a regular part of the toolkit.
Lastly, this also solves the problem of the current Deployment Tactics being too powerful when used in conjunction with a Crit Adlo.
Excogitation: The number one complaint with Excogitation is having it go to waste if incoming damage is wrongly estimated. Raising the triggering threshold will greatly reduce the waste without having to buff anything.
Enhanced Bane: My assumption is that the Bane nerf was designed more with SMN in mind than SCH. The way the two classes share skills makes this tricky, and using a Trait is a way to work around that limitation.
Having zero damage drop-off may seem powerful at first glance, but it’s not really that powerful. Considering that WHM can put a 40 potency DoT with no damage drop-off and no CD for one GCD, being able to put 70 with two GCDs and an Aetherflow stack is not really that excessive. This also needs to be a little stronger than Aero III to balance out SCH's lack of spammable AOE attack (e.g. Holy/Gravity).
Silent Dusk: Silent Dusk needs to be replaced. Not only is it a useless skill, but it also no longer fits into the current design philosophy, where debuffs such as Silence are outside the Healer Role. I really like the idea of creating a direct contrast with a Magic Defense buff on Eos and a Physical Defense buff on Selene.
Embrace: The fact is that Selene's AoE cleanse is nowhere near as useful as Whispering Dawn. The only ways to make Selene a truly equal alternative to Eos would be to substantially increase her speed buff or to increase her base healing. I figured increasing healing would be the more acceptable idea for the Dev team.
Faerie Potency: This is primarily a fix for the Faerie being too powerful in pre-50 dungeons. Outside of that, it is a quality of life fix so that it’s not such a pain in the butt for the community to discuss ability potencies.
SCH Adjustment Ideas
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07-07-2017, 03:31 PMgiantslayerSCH Adjustment Ideas
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07-09-2017, 02:40 PMgiantslayer
I've added a couple more ideas (change Deployment Tactics and buff Selene's Embrace). These were inspired by some thoughts/ideas I've seen on other threads (although my ideas for implementation are different).
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07-09-2017, 03:02 PMGalliford
I just wanted to say how much I like these ideas. Granted, I'm new to the game and still very much getting the hang of Scholar, but I think you've put forth some great suggestions here. In particular I like how Dissipation and Aetherpact would interact with each other -- mutually exclusive because of a choice you're making about your resource management (which v. much fits the theme of Scholar), and both useful in different ways.
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07-09-2017, 05:06 PMXygozFey Union has A LOT of problems but turning it into a 15% dmg reduction I dont think is enough to be useful. As its stand tanks have cooldowns for days another 15% wouldnt really help plus we would also lose out on the fairy heals while its channeling.Quote:
Originally Posted by giantslayer
Deployment Tactics im NOT a fan of this idea, Deployment tactics is one of scholars realy good skills, while I do agree it can be hard in pugs to spread it to everyone the same can be said for cure 3 or any bubble effects where people need to be in an area, a lot of fights do have enough stacking mechanics where you can spread your adlo out.
Dissipation I like the idea of giving aetherflow stacks but I don't like it eating the gauge they can take everything off of it and just have it give aetherflow back with a decent cooldown on it.
As far as the fairy's base heal I'm fine with the way it is atm its was a nerf but I IMO scholar has more problems then a 50 pot nerf to embrace, I've also giving up on want scholars to have its dps restored the devs have made it clear they don't want healers push really high numbers. Having cleared all the current content on scholar I can tell you our dps is still fine on single target and AE is decent, while it may be some what boring to spam broil 2 the dps is there. -
07-10-2017, 05:46 AMgiantslayer
Thanks for the feedback!
This would be in addition to its current effect. I agree that by itself, a 15% damage reduction would be worse than its current state. I apologize that may not have been clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xygoz
I was also a little iffy on removing a unique mechanic from the game. The thought process behind this was to address the complaint of how AST has completely overshadowed SCH in their former specialty, shields, in a way that seems to fit the style of SCH. This would give SCH the capability to output a stronger shield, but only once every 30 seconds and at the expense of removing the healing. More importantly, this is something the Dev team could realistically be talked into doing, whereas a potency increase to our base abilities has slim to no chance of implementation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xygoz
This is speculation, but my guess is that the current deployed crit adlo is too powerful from the dev team's standpoint. People have speculated he increased cost for Adlo was done to discourage crit fishing. This idea is a way the Dev team can solve that problem while giving the players something useful in exchange, instead of just giving us a nerf.
While I agree it would be nice from a player's standpoint, I see virtually zero chance of implementation for two reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xygoz
1. This would make it no different from Aetherflow, except for being on a separate cooldown.
2. The Dev team will want to retain the theme or concept of Dissipation. By definition of the word, Dissipation involves an expending or wasting of something. My idea retains the concept, but changes the object being dissipated from the faerie to the faerie gauge.
I really do appreciate the feedback/discussion and hope this didn't come across otherwise. Understand that I am trying to look at this from the perspective of the Dev team and recommend changes that they could agree with, both in terms of the amount of power as well as the thematic concepts. -
07-14-2017, 09:38 AMgiantslayer
I re-worked my Dissipation idea to work before you acquire the faerie gauge at 70, removing the need to change what levels abilities are acquired at. I also added an idea for Excogitation.
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07-14-2017, 10:24 AMsumiree
Quite a nice idea. overall not too OP at least.
As much as I want that enhanced bane, but in reality, I would say it is a little too strong.
Considering we still have our shadow flare as another DoT.
Maybe can match the pot reduction to be the same as Holy. -
07-14-2017, 10:44 AMMarcu18
Adloqium-potency from 300 to 350
Embrace-potency from 250 to 300-350
Excognitation- Use on self and/or long duration to a minute
Chain stratagem- target takes 15% MORE damage
Fey Union-10 yalms to 20, turn off when target is out of range
Shadow Flare- put back the way it use to be.
Aetherflow stacks- 2 or 3 more. -
07-14-2017, 02:36 PMKozhark
Excogitation: Allow for crit heal and if the timer runs down, apply a short duration shield equal to heal amount to target. Right now it is just a minimally stronger lustrate I dump on the tank when aetherflow is back up.
Fey Union: Increased tether range and remove the wind-up time for the ability to start. Allow +healing abilities to affect the healing potency.
Dissipation: Automatically re-summon fairy at the end of the duration.
Sacred Soil: Guaranteed free succor. Indomitability is a much better use of a stack at this point.
Quickened Aetherflow: 50% chance to reduce Aetherflow cd by 10 seconds when using aetherflow abilities. -
07-14-2017, 03:09 PMRiyshnWhy do people keep suggesting "fixes" for this that fail to solve the core problem that RNG CDR is a garbage mechanic in general, and ranges from worthless to actively harmful on healers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kozhark
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07-17-2017, 10:11 AMLrron
There are only a couple things I'd like to see as real adjustments on. Bearing in mind the recent changes/nerfs, I'm going to leave those alone as things SE wants in Sch. Numbers tuning is something else that can always be fixed if certain actions are not meeting the adequate demands of encounters. So that's no biggie for me.
Firstly, I'm not all that big a fan on how the Faerie Gauge is tied to our Aetherflow usage. It seems like the point of that is to encourage scholars to use their aetherstacks more quickly to charge it up (in a world where Fey Union is good :3). The RNG trait seems to push scholars in that direction as well. I'd like to see this link detached. For scholars, I think of aetherflow usage as critical smart plays rather than spending charges just because we have charges. If that is a goal to the job, I'd like to see that reinforced. If not, then so be it.
To that end, I'm not sure if Excog ought to be an aetherflow ability in the first place. At a 60s cooldown, it rarely plays a part whereas a simple lustrate will do in that same pinch. Is that extra 50 potency really worth the cost and the unreliability? To its defense, I will say the concept of Excog is good and unique. It plays a role in our belt of utility tricks. The problem is it plays too similar a role to lustrate. It needs to function differently from our other tools to have true purpose.
I think a simple fix is to make it a shield with no heal (as pointed out by others), but also to keep the same requirements in that it goes off at under 50% health. So what happens is it effectively protects a player after the big hit so they have a bit of leeway to receive heals. Obviously, that is not the most desirable situation, but I think that plays into sch's style of protection without being a simple copy of Adlo. In order to make sure Excog is always useful, have it pop the shield when it expires (maybe at one-half potency to encourage smart usage), regardless of HP value. That way, it ends up as either a useful shield, or a random bit of mitigation so the CD isn't a complete waste.
For the Faerie Gauge, I'd like to see embrace healing fuel it. I know that is awful sounding and awful in practice, but I think the Faerie Gauge was a real missed opportunity to exemplify our pets. It would've been a nice feature to have it charged by our faerie, then consumed by our faerie to boost a variety of her abilities. If the boosted versions of their abilities ended up being highly desirable, it could motivate the micro management of our faerie to maximize the gains. To try and picture it, imagine each successful hp restoration of embrace gives 5 points. Then each of the Faerie's abilities highlight into a boosted form at certain thresholds. Say 30/50/80. Once used, that much gauge is consumed. In such a design, Fey Union could still be kept as that powerful single-target channel. Though at least this way there would be other options to spend the gauge resource on. The lack of options makes the Faerie Gauge criminally underwhelming.
As far as what these boosted abilities could possibly be, I leave that open to interpretation. There have been many offered ideas on changes to Faerie abilities throughout the forums already. Typically, the ideas are more potent than the existing abilities. As such, I bet many could be plugged in as upgraded forms to the basic abilities by using this idea as the foundation. As a side note, wouldn't it have been nice if the Faerie Gauge was unlocked in the early 60's and we slowly gain access to their boosted abilities as we progress to 70? It would've been a good teaching mechanism on how to manage the gauge as well as encourage more faerie interaction before capping it with Fey Union.
All in all, I'd like to see a push in our unique strengths as SCH. As our kit gives us more to do than simply healing, and that is the joy of SCH. -
07-17-2017, 11:05 AMRiyshnI actually like the idea of letting it do both. Keep it on Aetherflow and leave the numbers the same as they are now (except maybe the CD), but allow it to pop as a 650p shield if it times out. This allows it to be either a tank buster safety net with the triggered heal, or a psudo-critlo (twice the strength of a normal Adlo shield, but lacking the crit modifier and also not effected by healing boosts) to deploy that requires both an Aetherflow stack as well as planning it out 30+ seconds in advance and keeping the target above 50% for that entire time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lrron
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07-17-2017, 12:19 PMLrronI do enjoy this idea a lot. It solves everything. I am a little hesitant about it actually going through though. I'm not sure the design team wants to make an ability in which we'd choose it over a similar ability (in this case, lustrate), 100% of the time. It would likely necessitate them putting it on a 2 minute CD or longer to balance it. X_xQuote:
Originally Posted by Riyshn
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07-17-2017, 12:35 PMRiyshn
I mean, we already have Indom and Sacred Soil, which pretty much directly compete for stacks. Giving it a 2 minute timer would sync it up with Deployment Tactics if it gave a shield, but that would also pretty much cement it as "you use this with Deploy only", where leaving it at 1 minute allows it to be used for the heal portion as well. Remember that it does/would still cost an Aetherflow stack.)
Honestly, it does feel a bit like SE has lost the original vision of SCH and what the Aetherflow stacks are supposed to be for. We currently have 6 Aetherflow abilities. 2 of them are Energy Drain/Bane from ACN. Then we have the original SCH ones from ARR, with Lustrate and Sacred Soil. Heavensward introduced Indom, which is simply better than Sacred Soil in something like 95% of situations (I can't think of any time it would actually mitigate more than Indom heals, so it's only real value is if the mitigation from a single hit is enough to stop a death), and SB gave us Excog, which in it's current state directly competes with Lustrate, as a situational but stronger heal (At first glance. Then you realize that the lack of crit means that on average Lustrate will heal for more.) -
07-17-2017, 01:22 PMKDSilver
Deployment Tactics doesn't need any change.
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07-17-2017, 03:01 PMRiyshn
No one is suggesting any changes to Deployment Tactics itself. I suggested a change to Excog to let it be conditionally either a heal or shield, instead of just the conditional heal it is now. In doing so I had to acknowledge that unless they gave SCH a second shield buff other than Galvanize, it would be an indirect buff to Deployment Tactics, becuase it would mean having a 650p shield at our disposal that's not reliant on crit.
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07-18-2017, 05:13 AMShurrikhan
Just a couple other ideas to throw out here for some feedback from you guys.
Note: I don't have SCH at 70 yet. While I have healed as SB SCH, the issues I've seen from SCHs in my own parties when tanking, heard about in detail from teamspeak, discord, ls chat, vids, reddit threads, and so forth, are the majority of my understanding.
Fey Union & the Pet Gauge:- I'd rather Pet Gauge were generated from the generation, not consumption, of Aetherflow stacks. While this could either include or not include stacks replaced when/if Aetherflow is used early, I feel like this would give earlier access to an immensely important tool, that I actually think would serve better as an opening effect, rather than a sort of final holding skill or one that needs to be prepped for future pulls in dungeons.
An extreme version of this would be for the "gauge" to be simply pet mana, and for Aetherflow to also affect the pet. In this way, one starts with full gauge. As the ramping gauges are the devs' most recent pride project, this would never occur, but I feel like this would have made decent sense.
- I'd like for Eos/Selene to become invulnerable (essentially a non-unit or one without any hitbox) during Fey Union, and to simply hover above the target or follow it continuously at x range.
- I'd like to see differences between the Fey Union granted by Eos and Selene. In this way, Selene could become an amazing single-target Fey Wind support or Esuna-bot, or Eos a single-target Magic Defense or healing-taken enhancer, all in addition to their healing. Ideally, I'd like to see short duration, stacking-benefit versions of each skill become available at gauge cost while Fey Union is active.
Dissipation:- Effects now vary with the Fairy consumed. If having consumed Eos, your Attack and Healing Spell Power are increased by 10%, all healing you deal generates a HoT equal to 20% of its effect over 15 seconds, and Dissipation becomes Fey Covenant*, available at Aetherflow cost. If Selene is consumed, the Attack Speed is increased by 20%, and all healing you deal generates Skill Speed and Spell Speed equal to 3% of the healing dealt on the affected targets, and all damage dealt generates Skill Speed and Spell Speed on yourself equal to 3% of damage dealt. (Effect is increased based on Skill Speed or Spell Speed already present on the target, and reduced with bonus amounts added via this effect reducing later bonuses.)**
*Names to be revised
**Formula to be determined.
Of course, I'd also like to see some changes to Bane and Broil, or any other sources of SCH spammable AoE.
Bane: Increases the duration of your periodic effects on the target and all enemies within 8 yalms thereof by 200% and then spreads these effects evenly across all enemies within 8 yalms, rounding to the nearest tick. Inflicts Plague.
Broil: Deals 170 potency of unaspected damage and causes all enemies within 5 yalms to take damage equal to half the potency of periodic effects on the target.Plague: Upon death, this target will spread all periodic damage effects with which you had affected it to all enemies within 8 yalms.
Broil II: Deals 210 potency of unaspected damage and causes all enemies within 5 yalms to take damage equal to half the potency of periodic effects on target and on themselves. - I'd rather Pet Gauge were generated from the generation, not consumption, of Aetherflow stacks. While this could either include or not include stacks replaced when/if Aetherflow is used early, I feel like this would give earlier access to an immensely important tool, that I actually think would serve better as an opening effect, rather than a sort of final holding skill or one that needs to be prepped for future pulls in dungeons.