The way wariors feel about pld

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/6kjlxe/hey_man_you_see_that_pld_over_there/

If you're gonna post a link at least post it as a link: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ld_over_there/

As pld main I have to chuckle @ all Warriors that are flaming extensively because their golden class isn't good this patch. This is what pld was during all of HW.

Though i am in favour of SE fixing warrior, it feels good to hear 'WAR sucks switch to pld instead' bc it has always been the other way around

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Originally Posted by SunAurel

It feels good to hear 'WAR sucks switch to pld instead' bc it has always been the other way around

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PLD is like the weird kid who always got bullied but grew up to be much hotter and more successful than the bullies, I love it.

More accurately, PLD was born into a wealthy family and had all their needs provided for, proceeded to drop out of school and squandered all of their personal resources, and then fortuitously came into their family's inheritance in their later years. Not that history matters in game balance, but a lot of people are quoting a crowdsourced revisionist history that didn't actually happen (probably because relatively few people actually played through from 2013, and fewer still actually mained tank for the duration).

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Originally Posted by SunAurel

This is what pld was during all of HW.

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Meanwhile, I just find it highly ironic that SE used "balancing" of the tanks as argument to not make new tank/healer jobs, only to then faux up these roles the most in terms of balance.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

only to then faux up these roles the most in terms of balance.

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Ranged physical is definitely the most fed up. They really might as well delete Machinist from the game. I haven't seen even one Machinist since SB dropped it's so bad.

Healers are probably next worst since AST is so overpowered, but melee is also fed up. MNK and DRG are vastly under-powered compared to NIN and SAM. NIN has been so overpowered since it was introduced it's not even funny. Can you honestly imagine a party comp that doesn't include a NIN? Can you imagine any party comp without a NIN at any point since it was added to the game? Obviously not since Trick Attack. That's how garbage melee balance is.

Tanks are probably the second best balanced after the casters, which is just a testament to how poorly the jobs have been balanced in general.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Meanwhile, I just find it highly ironic that SE used "balancing" of the tanks as argument to not make new tank/healer jobs, only to then faux up these roles the most in terms of balance.

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Given the changes we've seen, the intent so far seems to push tanks and healers towards their intended gameplay. That is, tanks being defensive and healers focusing on casting heals. Chances are they're trying to ensure the existing tanks and healers play along those lines before working on new tank and healing classes. Adding new classes when your gameplay paradigms are not set in place is a really bad idea, so I can see the logic behind the devs' actions.

That being said, I'm sure adjustments are coming our way next patch, but whether it'll be a PLD nerf or a WAR/DRK buff is up in the air.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

More accurately, PLD was born into a wealthy family and had all their needs provided for, proceeded to drop out of school and squandered all of their personal resources, and then fortuitously came into their family's inheritance in their later years. Not that history matters in game balance, but a lot of people are quoting a crowdsourced revisionist history that didn't actually happen (probably because relatively few people actually played through from 2013, and fewer still actually mained tank for the duration).

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I'm writing off 2.0 PLD because it didn't matter if it was good or bad because there was no tank meta. PLD was the MT, WAR was the OT. With exception of 2.0 WAR (which was massive piles of turd bad), PLD was PLD, WAR was WAR, and they both did the best in their associated roles.

- Sincerly, one of the few that main tanked for the duration of 2.x

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Originally Posted by eagledorf

Ranged physical is definitely the most fed up.

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Nono, magical DPS tanks is the worst! DRK's Abyssal Drain and Dark Passenger can't remotely compete with PLD's Holy Spirit spam. Block tanks are even worse - there's literally only one option.

Why are we segregating a role again if they're all competing for the same slots anyway? Nothing is stopping you from taking two ranged physicals or two melees along - it's actually been meta last season. Ranged physical DPS can be perfectly balanced against each other - nobody is going to pick them if just taking another melee or mage along is much better in the first place. Thus, these sub-roles of DPS are irrelevant and you have to look at DPS balance as a whole. Not doing so would be short-sighted, whether it's done by the devs or the players.

And honestly? For having three times as many jobs in it, DPS balance is looking a lot better than tank and healer balance overall. It's nowhere near as bad as people seriously considering job stacking as they do with PLD.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

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Actually, the 2.x meta was terrible. It wasn't just the public perception that PLD was the only viable "MT", it was the fact that a lot of content could be run with a solo tank, and you had your "OT" WAR switch off to MNK so that you could push your group dps. Granted, there are exceptions to every rule, and groups were playing around with PLD "OTs" and WAR "MTs" in Savage Second Coil. But a lot of that didn't filter down to general public perception.

Moreso than true balance, how the playerbase perceives balance matters. In ARR and early HW, the general perception was that PLD was the one "true" tank. People got endlessly hung up on the idea that WAR "took more damage", without really understanding the how Defiance worked compared to Shield Oath. Gordias was important, not only because it disintegrated the concepts of "MT" and "OT" and merged them into something more amorphous and fair, but also proved to the community at large that you didn't need to bring a PLD to clear content. There were other "real" tanks out there. It was also a wake up call and made many tanks realise that they were not entitled to their raid spots, and that they actually had to contribute to dps like everyone else on the team.

I don't mind balance shifts. I personally think that FoTM balance is a bit lazy, but it's the general approach to balance everywhere you go. Discussions on how any job was historically maligned probably factors far less into developer design than does clear rates and usage statistics. I don't even mind the lack of historical accuracy in some of these accounts that people are parroting off of reddit and elsewhere, because anyone who knows how to use a search function can see what the situation was really like two years ago. But try not to make this into a meme. 3.x was filled with WARs posturing and claiming that their near universal usage was the result of "superior design" and that we should just "buff the other tanks" to their level. 4.0 is starting out the gate with PLDs claiming that balance inequalities were brought about "for our sins" and are spouting pretty much the same thing. It gets old fast.

I don't know why Warriors are claiming foul the most.....I think Dark Knights got the biggest shaft this expansion.

Blood gauge skills should be OGCD. And I am still irked that the Blood Gauge has no associated use for HP sustain tanking. That's crap. And no skill synergy or revisions at all with Living Dead. Ugh!

Having played both a lot in the current EX primals, I do enjoy playing WAR more. But man is it fun using all the ogcds PLD has, even if their standard "rotation" isn't as interesting/engaging.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Given the changes we've seen, the intent so far seems to push tanks and healers towards their intended gameplay.

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You mean they're trying to push tanks and healers away from playing the game in general, which is why we're seeing basically double the DPS queues that we normally do. Yes, Samurai and Red Mage came out and a lot of people are playing it. This does not change the fact that a lot of tanks have hung up their role and moved on to do other things.

I'm sure i'll get a bunch of replies with, "Oh i'm still tanking hur dur. " I really don't care that you're still tanking, I know plenty of friends who were tanks who are no longer tanks. I also know it doesn't take much to glance at the forums and spot all the "I quit" threads.

I for one am sticking to my Warrior, I hope they do right and fix many of the issues all tanks are having and create a more fun experience.. It just feels like they're punishing us, so little of us play tanks as it is.. It saddens me though that a few of my friends have basically just stopped playing all together.. Fingers crossed for 4.1 :/

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Given the changes we've seen, the intent so far seems to push tanks and healers towards their intended gameplay. That is, tanks being defensive and healers focusing on casting heals. Chances are they're trying to ensure the existing tanks and healers play along those lines before working on new tank and healing classes. Adding new classes when your gameplay paradigms are not set in place is a really bad idea, so I can see the logic behind the devs' actions.

That being said, I'm sure adjustments are coming our way next patch, but whether it'll be a PLD nerf or a WAR/DRK buff is up in the air.

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I mean, these new ex primals are the easiest yet to tank in full dps stance. I still tank every dungeon boss in dps stance, doesn't feel that much different to me.

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Originally Posted by Poken

You mean they're trying to push tanks and healers away from playing the game in general, which is why we're seeing basically double the DPS queues that we normally do. Yes, Samurai and Red Mage came out and a lot of people are playing it. This does not change the fact that a lot of tanks have hung up their role and moved on to do other things.

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Yup, tanking is boring now. At least maxing our damage was a form of personal progress. What do we have to strive for now? Popping a cd when you see a cast bar and moar flash? Woopie. People play to have fun....all the tanks leaving should tell you something. Everquest tanking is no longer fun.

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Originally Posted by Poken

You mean they're trying to push tanks and healers away from playing the game in general, which is why we're seeing basically double the DPS queues that we normally do.

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If I may mount my high horse for a moment, I wasn't the one embracing gameplay that hovered between unorthodox and really unintended. Specially in the context of tanks, I've been calling this since 3.0/3.1, when everyone and their mother started treating Shield Oath/Grit/Defiance like some sort of design flaw or disease that shouldn't be there because it hurts t3h d33pz. On a personal note, Stormblood seems to be pushing tanks in a direction I already followed, so the changes are no skin off my back.

And if being forced to play defensively is enough to make people quit the role (a tank having to focus on defense; what a concept!), I'll question why they rolled a tank in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Hruodig

I mean, these new ex primals are the easiest yet to tank in full dps stance. I still tank every dungeon boss in dps stance, doesn't feel that much different to me.

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Our experiences have been different, then. I've seen tanks get demolished when trying to not use their defensive stances since Doma Castle. Haven't tried any of the EX primals yet, so I'll take your word for it.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

Yup, tanking is boring now. At least maxing our damage was a form of personal progress. What do we have to strive for now? Popping a cd when you see a cast bar and moar flash? Woopie.

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You can and definitely should maximize damage while being defensive; you're just doing it in tank stance.

Non-sequitur:

If lack of options is a legit complaint on WAR (to me it isn't because all you lose out when full-timing Defiance is Fel Cleave, Decimate and the TP recovery from Equilibrium), I'll throw you a bone:

68 Shake It Off - Removed
68 Nihilism (New ability) - Allows the use of one ability corresponding to the opposite of your current stance at double the Beast Gauge cost. Can only be executed while under the effect of Defiance or Deliverance. Switching stances will cancel this effect. Duration: 10s. Cooldown: 60s.

So every minute you can use Fel Cleave/Decimate while in Defiance or Inner Beast/Steel Cyclone while in Deliverance, but it costs you the full bar. In theory, if you're in no real danger of taking a big hit and have the full bar, you can spend it on a burst attack/active mitigation/AoE with or without enmity if you so choose. Since activating it would change all the corresponding icons into their counterparts, you'd have to be careful because used at the wrong time means you lose out on Inner Beast when you might need it.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

68 Nihilism (New ability) - Allows the use of one ability corresponding to the opposite of your current stance at double the Beast Gauge cost. Can only be executed while under the effect of Defiance or Deliverance. Switching stances will cancel this effect. Duration: 10s. Cooldown: 60s.

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This is even more useless than Shake it Off. Double gauge cost? Are you serious? Noone would ever use this.

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Originally Posted by SunAurel

As pld main I have to chuckle @ all Warriors that are flaming extensively because their golden class isn't good this patch. This is what pld was during all of HW.

Though i am in favour of SE fixing warrior, it feels good to hear 'WAR sucks switch to pld instead' bc it has always been the other way around

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I think we should be in favor of jobs being balanced rather than having FoTM jobs.

"it has always been the other way around"
You might want to take a look at 2.0 WAR lol. No damage reduction on IB, no damage reduction on Vengeance, healing bonus dependent on wrath stacks, etc.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...0_war/diduw1j/

http://i.imgur.com/W6SejQS.png

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Originally Posted by Falar

I don't know why Warriors are claiming foul the most.....I think Dark Knights got the biggest shaft this expansion.

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I think anyone has the right to complain if their job isn't fun anymore? This reminds me of this picture where you can't complain about anything unless you have it worst.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

Yup, tanking is boring now. At least maxing our damage was a form of personal progress. What do we have to strive for now? Popping a cd when you see a cast bar and moar flash? Woopie. People play to have fun....all the tanks leaving should tell you something. Everquest tanking is no longer fun.

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Yeah, I really miss tanking in TERA. Before maxmizing DPS, you could optimize taking 0 damage by blocking or dodging every hit. Then it became even more challenging with maximizing DPS because the two goals are at ends with each other.

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

I think we should be in favor of jobs being balanced rather than having FoTM jobs.

"it has always been the other way around"
You might want to take a look at 2.0 WAR lol. No damage reduction on IB, no damage reduction on Vengeance, healing bonus dependent on wrath stacks, etc.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...0_war/diduw1j/

http://i.imgur.com/W6SejQS.png

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Warrior was my second main in HW lmao ofc i want it to be fixed but you won't believe how often I had to gear 'pld switch to war :/' or 'pld is useless can u switch to your warrrior' when i wanted to play pld

So yeah i am having quite the Schadenfreude with the current situation but don't even think for a second i want this imbalance to be permanent when i want it fixed with the next patch

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Originally Posted by Lyth

snip).

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I'm sorry but the only time pld was ever viable during coil was when it was on farm and your group needed it for solo tanking. Pld was always tossed to the curb because
their utility being too nich, then the HW dps checks came in and pld was put even farther on the back burner. Now that war isn't leading the charge as "THE" go to tank I'm not gonna say sry to you all, not gonna say better luck next patch just gonna say

"SUCK IT"

About time that pld defensive kit and utility outshines war pure dps kit.
However I am shocked that SE took away the sustain abilities from war. Better luck next patch.

Does everyone posting just not know what any job does at all? Warrior's pure dps kit? What? Did you just see that they don't wear a shield and assume that they don't have defense skills?

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Originally Posted by Gravton

Yup, tanking is boring now. At least maxing our damage was a form of personal progress. What do we have to strive for now? Popping a cd when you see a cast bar and moar flash? Woopie. People play to have fun....all the tanks leaving should tell you something. Everquest tanking is no longer fun.

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This. This. This. I really couldn't have said it better my self, thank you so much...

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Originally Posted by Donaria

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Hello. I'm not sure whose post you're replying to or projecting at, because it certainly isn't mine. I'm not a WAR main, nor have I been for over two years.

I'm not sure where you got your information from, but PLD certainly was viable throughout coil in ARR. The world first clears of every coil turn outside of savage second coil featured a PLD main tank. In T5, it featured double PLD. Many early kills of T8 and T9 featured PLD solo tanks, simply to help with dps checks, and that became the meta for a time. A lot of second coil was tankable with a solo PLD, and many of the "fixes" brought in with savage actually forced a two tank comp by making players deal with mechanics that they previously bypassed or ignored as a single PLD tank (by adding vuln to Ravensbeak in addition to the delayed explosion to force a swap, or by making the Dreadnaught tether to Avatar to force them to be tanked apart).

PLD's utility and mitigation is not "too niche". It has always had an advantage in both of those areas. Hallowed lets you flat out bypass intended mechanics, and in ARR, playing defensively during progression was a priority. In early HW, everyone assumed that PLD's dominance would continue. Sheltron was supposed to be the next IB. A lot of players locked in PLD for early HW ex primal runs, and A1S-A2S was bruteforced with PLD/WAR. It's only when players hit a wall in A3S that things had to be changed up. It's not that the large mitigation advantages PLD brought were unnecessary. It was that being able to survive the fight at a mitigation disadvantage with the other two jobs allowed you to make the dps checks at lower gear levels.

Actually, the issue at the moment isn't that PLD's defensive/utility kit outshines WAR's offensive kit. That was always the case. It's the fact that PLD's offensive kit presently outshines WAR's offensive kit as well. We'll have to see how things shape up in raid content, but this is already shaping up to be a worse balance setup than even 3.x WAR. On the plus side, when they do get around to doing further rebalancing, perhaps this will provide a dev rationale to finally tone down PLD's defensive kit, as the justification that it "does less damage" no longer holds. Balance is an iterative process, after all.

Either way, I'm not overly worried. There's always been a fairly large discrepancy in tank dps due to variations in skill, and it's always entertaining to completely outperform someone while playing a more complex job which is "theoretically" not supposed to come out on top. I'm more concerned over the situation over tank stat scaling, as that's going to have a bigger impact on performance differences. Either way, it's up to you to decide whether you want 4.0 PLD to be remembered in the same light as 3.x WAR, or differently: by acting with grace, or without it.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Either way, I'm not overly worried. There's always been a fairly large discrepancy in tank dps due to variations in skill, and it's always entertaining to completely outperform someone while playing a more complex job which is "theoretically" not supposed to come out on top.

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Yea this pretty much, for the record I have all tanks 70, and had all 60 in hw, but its funny how pld mains are gloating and talking down to war mains, but i guarantee 99% of them like this donaria guy sit in shield oath, dont even know their proper rotation, and are the same paladins im getting in my doge farm groups who i out parse by 800+ dps on any tank I play. But then again they are PLD mains, the idiot proof 1-2-3 tank so they need any handicap they can get lol

I like how people define "balance" as really meaning "I should be able to solo dps in a dungeon group more than the other guy".

If we are truly familiar with the devs logic that we've seen over the years, their idea of "balancing" probably means "let's weaken a bunch of jobs to give tanks and healers something to worry about".

Please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Tankstuff

But then again they are PLD mains, the idiot proof 1-2-3 tank so they need any handicap they can get lol

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^^^Bingo ^^^

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Originally Posted by Duelle

If I may mount my high horse for a moment, I wasn't the one embracing gameplay that hovered between unorthodox and really unintended. Specially in the context of tanks, I've been calling this since 3.0/3.1, when everyone and their mother started treating Shield Oath/Grit/Defiance like some sort of design flaw or disease that shouldn't be there because it hurts t3h d33pz. On a personal note, Stormblood seems to be pushing tanks in a direction I already followed, so the changes are no skin off my back.

And if being forced to play defensively is enough to make people quit the role (a tank having to focus on defense; what a concept!), I'll question why they rolled a tank in the first place.

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Except it isn't defensive. If I can survive a tank buster in DPS stance, what purpose does my tank stance serve? That has been the fundamental issue. Nothing in the game has ever required tank stance to be on consistently, massive trash pulls notwithstanding. Even now, Susano and Lakshmi do nothing to enforce more frequent use of tank stance. If this continues into Omega, you'll see the same meta you did throughout 3.x. Why? Because defense only matters to a certain threshold. Once surpassed, there is no reason to keep piling on top of it. Yes, the devs are trying to discourage the DPS mindset, but until damage spikes are less scripted and simply higher, people aren't going to care. There's a reason tanks are wearing 270 Slaying accessories after all. It's better.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

If I may mount my high horse for a moment, I wasn't the one embracing gameplay that hovered between unorthodox and really unintended. Specially in the context of tanks, I've been calling this since 3.0/3.1, when everyone and their mother started treating Shield Oath/Grit/Defiance like some sort of design flaw or disease that shouldn't be there because it hurts t3h d33pz. On a personal note, Stormblood seems to be pushing tanks in a direction I already followed, so the changes are no skin off my back.

And if being forced to play defensively is enough to make people quit the role (a tank having to focus on defense; what a concept!), I'll question why they rolled a tank in the first place.
Our experiences have been different, then. I've seen tanks get demolished when trying to not use their defensive stances since Doma Castle. Haven't tried any of the EX primals yet, so I'll take your word for it.
You can and definitely should maximize damage while being defensive; you're just doing it in tank stance.

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You do realize that DPS is one of the best forms of support in this game, right? DPS is king in this game. That's just how the game works. More DPS = push phases faster, less chances to screw up. That being said, I don't really care about hitting 2.5k DPS, which tanks can still possibly do. I care about having fun.

Yeah, because you're looking at pug tanks who don't know how to use their cooldowns effectively. Grit and Shield Oath are effectively cooldowns, the same as Rampart, except they're on the GCD. For trash, I'd agree it's probably better to stay in tank stance. But for bosses? I'm 100% sure the pro tanks are stance dancing.

http://i.imgur.com/hqxHgRb.png

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You know what I find interesting? Tank stance for Warrior in TERA doesn't have a damage penalty. It just doesn't have damage up stats like the DPS stance does.

https://sites.google.com/site/yoshas...lass-change-12
https://sites.google.com/site/yoshas...lass-change-14

And the devs embraced the meta rather than fighting against it. They increased the damage by 200% for the only 1 of 2 skills that has an aggro modifier. They increased crit power/damage from the front by 1.18x (this is on top of the wrath crystal), closing the gap with DPS. They also increased the crit chance on tank stance by 15%, closing the gap with DPS even more. In TERA the way damage worked is due to crystals and a consumable, you would do like 8x damage if you crit from the back as a DPS. Yeah, it's 7.9 (base 2.0 + 1.78 + 1.44 + 1.26 + 1.42) while for tanks it would be 6.78 (base 2.0 + 1.78 + 1.58 + 1.42), 7.96 with the buff.

And the way fights were designed in TERA, you needed to be in tank stance because of the constant damage output so you needed the ability to block damage. I'd say in FFXIV even with the boss fights we have now, it doesn't enforce tank stance usage because tankbusters are still scripted.

Tankbuster timing for the cleave in Susano Ex.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Our experiences have been different, then. I've seen tanks get demolished when trying to not use their defensive stances since Doma Castle. Haven't tried any of the EX primals yet, so I'll take your word for it.

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If tanks are getting demolished then they're not effectively mitigating. Stance dancing is all about using cooldowns offensively-whenever I tank a dungeon boss in dps stance, I'm putting up a cd when I know damage is about to come out on me, and likewise I put up a reprisal when I know party wide damage is coming out. Yes this requires you to know the fight, but shouldn't I be rewarded for knowing these fights? Imo, my reward for putting effort in is being able to put out more dps.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Hello.

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Oh sorry Lyth i wasn't trying to call you out personally (on mobile less editing functions) just the arrogant war mentality many have shown over the years. On a side note I'm not a world firster and neither are you would it be possible to take those comparisons out of the discussion?
However I'm disappointed how war was stripped of there self sustain skills I thought that's what a war is "a self-sustaining monster" I mostly play as drg and was somewhat disappointed that I would be losing access to bloodbath but I was like well maybe SE will give lancet to drg to compensate for it. When the patch note went live boy was a surprised.

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Originally Posted by Tankstuff

but i guarantee 99% of them like this donaria guy sit in shield oath.

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Hell yea im in my tank stance 99% of the time unless we're in a boss fight.
My roll is to "tank" dmg not to dish it out.
With your response it kinda makes you look like a squishy trigglypuff and you call yourself a tank? Well I guess you kinda are a white knight since you jumped at the chance to defend a random persons honor on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Actually, the 2.x meta was terrible. It wasn't just the public perception that PLD was the only viable "MT", it was the fact that a lot of content could be run with a solo tank, and you had your "OT" WAR switch off to MNK so that you could push your group dps.

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My point is that, solo tanking aside (which was unviable for a lot of fights by design), the tanks weren't fighting for a spot in the raid meta because there were two slots available and two tanks that were designed for each of those slots. Yes WAR had a rough start in 2.0 but was then fixed, yes PLD was basically mandatory in the MT slot, but the optimal "meta" was PLD as MT due to better mitigation and WAR was OT due to better damage and storms eye, and neither had a third tank that was eying up their slot.

I played through both metas, and 2.x was far better for tanks than 3.x, not just number wise but you could feel it in the community, and in the design of content.

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Originally Posted by Donaria

Hell yea im in my tank stance 99% of the time unless we're in a boss fight.
My roll is to "tank" dmg not to dish it out.
With your response it kinda makes you look like a squishy trigglypuff and you call yourself a tank? Well I guess you kinda are a white knight since you jumped at the chance to defend a random persons honor on the internet.

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yea youre bad dont talk about tank balance

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Originally Posted by Tankstuff

yea youre bad dont talk about tank balance

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You're not adding anything to the conversation, insulting every paladin main, straight telling people to not add their opinion. Yes PLD is one of the more simpler classes to play with it's rotation, but every class has those idiots that sit in tank stance and don't play their class. I've seen plenty of DRK that don't EVER use DA and only mash their souleater combo, I've seen plenty of WAR that do nothing but mash as many fell cleaves as they can, aggro and mitigation be damned. There are baddies in every role and class in the game, so stop bashing on one of them and add something useful to the conversation.

It's perfectly fine that you don't like the way that PLD is, but if that's the case make an articulated comment about it, instead of assuming everyone who does play it is someone who needs a handicap because they cant ''handle the complexities'' of the other tanks

Found the other PLD main

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Originally Posted by LilLemay

You're not adding anything to the conversation, insulting every paladin main, straight telling people to not add their opinion. Yes PLD is one of the more simpler classes to play with it's rotation, but every class has those idiots that sit in tank stance and don't play their class. I've seen plenty of DRK that don't EVER use DA and only mash their souleater combo, I've seen plenty of WAR that do nothing but mash as many fell cleaves as they can, aggro and mitigation be damned. There are baddies in every role and class in the game, so stop bashing on one of them and add something useful to the conversation.

It's perfectly fine that you don't like the way that PLD is, but if that's the case make an articulated comment about it, instead of assuming everyone who does play it is someone who needs a handicap because they cant ''handle the complexities'' of the other tanks

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Even though he was pretty blunt, I do agree with his opinion. I could literally be watching Netflix if all I was doing was holding aggro and mitigating damage. That's how boring tanking is in this game. Same thing if I were to only heal when needed as a healer. In TERA I actually had to pay attention if I didn't want to get wrecked as a tank. The difference in engagement is like night and day. So I consider "pure tanking" to be somewhat lazy. That being said, I'm not going to force anyone to play a way they don't like. And this applies to all tank jobs, not just PLD.

http://i.imgur.com/8uDO2NJ.png

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

Even though he was pretty blunt, I do agree with his opinion. I could literally be watching Netflix if all I was doing was holding aggro and mitigating damage. That's how boring tanking is in this game. Same thing if I were to only heal when needed as a healer. In TERA I actually had to pay attention if I didn't want to get wrecked as a tank. The difference in engagement is like night and day. So I consider "pure tanking" to be somewhat lazy. That being said, I'm not going to force anyone to play a way they don't like. And this applies to all tank jobs, not just PLD.

http://i.imgur.com/8uDO2NJ.png

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I'm fine with that, even I'll admit that PLD is alittle boring at times and I main the class. My issue is with the straight berating of other players for playing a class that they want to.

I'll wait before swapping back to war. I like to let other people who care do the leg-work with respect to rotations etc. I doubt we'll ever see damage proportions from war like we did in HW, but I'm currently wearing fending right-side on pld, so I can only imagine what Tankstuff would say.