[SPOILER] Why our character can Dodge AoE

SPOILER BELOW!!!!

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So in a sudden twist of story reasons, we have just learned why our characters can dodge AoEs and Charge attack lore wise while NPCs cannot seem to see AoE hit box and just take the hits.

It is the Echo that grants our characters ability to see into the short future by the Aether of our enemies when they are about to use a AoE or Charge attack skill.

As Urianger explained, the artifical echo has the same powers as a normal echo and when Fordola used it she saw all of the AoE attacks and Charge attacks as "hit boxes" thus was able to dodge them just like how our characters can see these "hit boxes" and dodge them before our enemies can get a hit on us.

It is rather unexpect for SE to include this as part of the Echo's abilities but it certainly explains a lot why NPCs always seem to just take the hits from AoE and Charge attacks when our character can see them and react to them.

It was always my headcanon for why we could view aoes and avoid attacks really easily, obviously it's there for gameplay reasons but I just assumed it was the echo lore-wise.

Meanwhile, the guy who explains the AoEs in the hall of the novice goes:
"An enemy often tips his hand before his big attack, and the best defense is to skip out of the way.", thereby implying that it works more like the swing and projectile animations of action RPGs, which we lack due to... not being an action RPG.

Personally, I crack it up to plain lore/gameplay segregation, much like Nefarian in UBRS yells at his underlings to shred the ones in the robes (aka: Healers) first, only to then obediently follow the aggro mechanic in Blackwing Lair himself.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Meanwhile, the guy who explains the AoEs in the hall of the novice goes:
"An enemy often tips his hand before his big attack, and the best defense is to skip out of the way.", thereby implying that it works more like the swing and projectile animations of action RPGs, which we lack due to... not being an action RPG.

Personally, I crack it up to plain lore/gameplay segregation, much like Nefarian in UBRS yells at his underlings to shred the ones in the robes (aka: Healers) first, only to then obediently follow the aggro mechanic in Blackwing Lair himself.

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In their view, the game combat most likely plays more like a action RPG for NPCs that do not have the Echo thus for them they know there is probably a AoE but has no clue how long nor what type it would be. However, for us players who have the echo we see things in advance as the hit box to see how far and what type of AoE it is.

The echo is the fact that we *can* forsee fights because as players we watch video guides. Additionally, when we wipe we can retry but retain the knowledge of the mechanics but from our enemy's point of view each time we engage is the first time theyr'e fighting us even though we've seen them fight dozens of times. How meta is that?

Its kinda strange since NPCs can avoid AOEs. Heck in one of the job quests they even stack with you or are running away from certain AOEs. How would this be explained? Also if we can see AOEs and stuff like that, why were we not able to see that one attack after the vault? I mean Fordola was able to see normal attacks too since Lyse and Alisaie did not use AOE attacks against her.

So if we have this one already activated and are using it for a long time, why were we defeated by Zenos? Shouldnt we be able to dodge everything that he does? Somehow this ability made Fordola nearly invisible and need a plot item to defeat her. If we possess the same ability shouldnt we not be completely invisible too? (Also until Fordola and Zenos, the echo was never seen as a power up and yet with it, Fordola, which I defeated twice already, was somehow too strong.)

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Originally Posted by Alleo

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We did see all of Zeno's attacks when we fight him and dodge, based on the play to choose to avoid the hit box or not, these attacks by our natural actions.

Zenos was stronger because he was a level 70 in power. Lore wise, Zeno was the reason why our character was leveling from 60 to 70 since during 3.X era our character assumed level 60 was the peak of their power. As our character gets closer to level 70 we become strong enough to actually harm Zeno who is set as level 70 by default.

In certain boss fight we also see other special attack markers as well which we choose to dodge as the boss mechanic such as a Charge link marker, the +/- mechanic marker, and etc.

Every attack mechanic marker we see is the result of the Echo showing us. When a NPC follows use to dodge a attack they are acting out to the action of WoL seeing a attack's length that they cannot see themselves. They themselve cannot see the AoE hit box but they are still skilled and aware enough to assume that a attack is going to be a AoE with their only ability to tell the length of the attack based on the length of the person's weapon being used. For the NPCs combat is basically a Action RPG combat so they must depend on their natural instinct to assume the length of the AoE and how to react to it without being able to see a "hit box" just like in any action rpg combat.

The Vault incident with the Spear of Light is most likely because it was not a AoE attack but a Single target attack which we see bosses use when they target the Tank player which those are always unavoidable.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

The Vault incident with the Spear of Light is most likely because it was not a AoE attack but a Single target attack which we see bosses use when they target the Tank player which those are always unavoidable.

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That attack exists in game actually, it's used in thordan extreme: Target healer, split-damage line AoE, first one hit takes extra damage.. so you have the off-tank stand in front. Besides, if Haurchefant didn't do anything, we'd have dodged it.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Meanwhile, the guy who explains the AoEs in the hall of the novice goes:
"An enemy often tips his hand before his big attack, and the best defense is to skip out of the way.", thereby implying that it works more like the swing and projectile animations of action RPGs, which we lack due to... not being an action RPG.

Personally, I crack it up to plain lore/gameplay segregation, much like Nefarian in UBRS yells at his underlings to shred the ones in the robes (aka: Healers) first, only to then obediently follow the aggro mechanic in Blackwing Lair himself.

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To be fair, there are mobs in this game that have aoe that we cannot "see." The shadow dragon in Niddy EX and the final bosses of Stone Vigil hard come to mind. There's also a class of monsters, the Vanara I think, in Yanxia who share the same trait of having no aoe indicators, and the cyclops/minotaur style monsters such as Coincounter in Aurum Vale as well. There's a Vanara-type A rank hunt in Yanxia who has 2 moves (out of 3) that are only readable by how he positions his body. Having beaten it once, I pity the tank/melee that engage that hunt without knowing what they are up against, cause they'll get rekt.

One major flaw to your logic. Players can't dodge aoes they see a shiny red circle on the ground and want to stand in it. Oooh shiny!!!!!

Probably 95% of my raises are the result of players standing in shiny circles and stuff

To be fair, if something stood for a good 3 seconds priming something up, any one with a working brain stem would move out of its way.

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Originally Posted by Clawbriar

To be fair, if something stood for a good 3 seconds priming something up, any one with a working brain stem would move out of its way.

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With how many players that get hit by attacks that aren't telegraphed I'm not sure about that......

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

We did see all of Zeno's attacks when we fight him and dodge, based on the play to choose to avoid the hit box or not, these attacks by our natural actions.

Zenos was stronger because he was a level 70 in power. Lore wise, Zeno was the reason why our character was leveling from 60 to 70 since during 3.X era our character assumed level 60 was the peak of their power. As our character gets closer to level 70 we become strong enough to actually harm Zeno who is set as level 70 by default.

In certain boss fight we also see other special attack markers as well which we choose to dodge as the boss mechanic such as a Charge link marker, the +/- mechanic marker, and etc.

Every attack mechanic marker we see is the result of the Echo showing us. When a NPC follows use to dodge a attack they are acting out to the action of WoL seeing a attack's length that they cannot see themselves. They themselve cannot see the AoE hit box but they are still skilled and aware enough to assume that a attack is going to be a AoE with their only ability to tell the length of the attack based on the length of the person's weapon being used. For the NPCs combat is basically a Action RPG combat so they must depend on their natural instinct to assume the length of the AoE and how to react to it without being able to see a "hit box" just like in any action rpg combat.

The Vault incident with the Spear of Light is most likely because it was not a AoE attack but a Single target attack which we see bosses use when they target the Tank player which those are always unavoidable.

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No in the job quest these NPCs react even before we do so they would even move if one would stand still. Also they came running to me before I could even do something so they were even faster then me. And maybe I remember it wrong but I believe that in one HW fight at the end of the expansion Gosetsu and Alisaie also can move out of AOEs.

Can we truly say that there are levels lore wise? (So is a bug really stronger than the bosses from the crystal tower raids because they are of a lower level than them?) Also I was completely fine in his fight against him and giving time I would have been able to beat his LP down. When he used that AOE it mostly did not hit that much but because plot demands it he can suddenly one hit k.o us with that.

Lyse and Alisaie also only used single attacks against Fordola (at least it did not feel like a AOE attack) and yet she was able to see them too. I just find it kinda strange to explain game mechanics in lore. I was totally fine with accepting that a fight in the game is not necessary how it happens in lore. I mean we need how many attacks to beat one bug? And yet we strike down Garleans in armor with one hit in some cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

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Like I said before, for NPCs combat is a Action RPG combat which means they can still dodge AoE and react to them but they will not see the Hitbox like our character. Instead they must trust their natural instincts and combat experience to determine the length and shape of that AoE and other attacks. For them the combat is basically FFXV combat and thus they must trust their natural experience in battle to determine the actions of the enemy.

I also mentioned that we see other attacks other than just AoE such as Charge attacks and other mechanic we cannot dodge as Markers as well but we know how to reduce those attacks damage by seeing those markers.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

With how many players that get hit by attacks that aren't telegraphed I'm not sure about that......

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Their brain stem must be malfunctioning in some way.

I think you're reading too much into it. Each echo user manifests its power in different ways.

Reading aether fluctuations to predict enemy attacks was Fordola's power but it doesn't mean it's ours. As far as I'm concerned, seeing aoe markers and the like is still a gameplay feature that should be segregated from the lore/plot.

Because hes the flash.














End of discussion.