Enemity needs...

Sup people, well im main dark and i love it, but maybe is just me or enemity is kinda broken? now is more difficult keep aggro more than the 50% in multiples mobs, enemity combo plus unleash in 3.0 was supreme, now i need to do it more than 3 times to keep aggro and is just frustating when you have all the aggro and in matter of seconds one member of the party mostly samurai or red mage keep the 80 or 90% of the aggro, maybe the tenacity broken thing is the cause or the 3.0 vit+str scale?

Unleash's potency got nerfed, didn't it?

Yeap and if im not wrong they add 5% more enemit, but in mi experience im not seeing that extra

potencies scale off of STR alone now, VIT does nothing for you holding hate. put on i270 STR accessories

1. Stick to Abyssal Drain over Unleash unless your MP is low.
2. Red Mages in particular seem to have an unhealthy obsession with trying to pull off the tank. Give them what they want: Shirk them until they learn to properly use Diversion and Lucid Dreaming.
3. Related, but a lot of tanks are still of the mindset where they can sit out of tank stance all day. Don't do it. Not without a team you can trust to know how to handle their enmity.
4. Tenacity is kinda crap right now, seems to have the same scaling as Parry. It's not as bad as Parry, given that it's not RNG and is doing two things, but it's still crap. Direct Hit melds are your friend right now.

Haven't played with Warrior yet. But DRK has some issues holding hate and Paladin is a complete heart attack and a half. I go and pull and already have enemies being ripped off me if the DPS are on the ball. Before SB when they scaled STR with VIT it was easier. Now they made this change and we're back (Not as bad as way back) fighting to keep hate unless it's a boss and we can focus on it.

This is something I can agree with and have noticed. Honestly I am unsure what the change should be but enmity should be looked at a bit.

Agreed - even if I can hold aggro, constantly throwing overpowers on EVERY PULL just to hold aggro isn't fun. Mitigating damage, and doing damage (when safe) is.

Abyssal drain 3 times, hate combo the focus target.

If people are splitting dps, second-hit the lower dps, third hit the higher.

Literally hasn't changed from low level to now.

Edit: If it's a hate happy Black Mage like me, letting me get smacked around a bit to remember my threat reductions isn't a terrible idea :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EusisLandale

1. Stick to Abyssal Drain over Unleash unless your MP is low.
2. Red Mages in particular seem to have an unhealthy obsession with trying to pull off the tank. Give them what they want: Shirk them until they learn to properly use Diversion and Lucid Dreaming.
3. Related, but a lot of tanks are still of the mindset where they can sit out of tank stance all day. Don't do it. Not without a team you can trust to know how to handle their enmity.
4. Tenacity is kinda crap right now, seems to have the same scaling as Parry. It's not as bad as Parry, given that it's not RNG and is doing two things, but it's still crap. Direct Hit melds are your friend right now.

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I was going to say the same about unleash, as its now 50% less enmity, and with less STR, less enmity as well.

But the comment about shirk was really off.
Diversion is only up every 3rd fight. The other 2 are left with lucid dream, which if i pull hate pretty much on the 1st -3rd GCD, then popping it that soon is a waste, as the next GCD ill be back at the top, i try to pop it a few more GCDs in. (and even then, its usually only up every other fight, so thats pretty much 33% of the time I dont have anything to lower threat. And my AoE spam is 2 buttons pretty much. Not much else can be done. I keep hearing tanks complain about Skatter threat, but usually its those who only AoE 2-4 times, mainly to try and conserve on resources. (Which only WAR really has issues before steel cyclone.)

Ya OK so I got tired of everyone complaining about how hard it is to keep enmity, and how it's so annoying to play Warrior now because they no longer have Flash.

Well... I just went into Kugane Castle with all my VIT accessories, SIXTY THOUSAND HP!!! @__@ Told the DRG + SAM to try their hardest to steal agro from me. I pulled as many trash as I could in each phase (except during Summoners).

I lost agro once, and that was because I got distracted. I just switched to it, used Provoke + Overpower, and focused it. Nothing else happened.

So what's going on? Am I some sort of AMAZING TANK for being able to pull this off? No... that can't be it. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that everyone who has been having enmity issues, is most likely trying to tank dungeon trash in their DPS stance. Please stop.

The only acceptable way to fix this is making Tenacity as good as Direct Hit.

I've been focusing on my DRK since 4.0 early-launch and the first thing i noticed is that it wasn't a fair change:

Accuracy > Direct Hit: DPS now has 100% hit rate, and hits harder!
Parry > Tenacity: Tank Parry rates lowered, damage/heal/mitigation increase is non-existent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

But the comment about shirk was really off.

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It's less about Red Mages who actually use their tools. It's not even about Scatter either. All of that is within reason. You find a Red Mage doing all that, maybe one thing will drift away from you on the rare occasion.
It's about the ones who go out of their way to pick a single thing out of a big pack and just blow it up until it comes to eat their face. But if you adjust yourself to deal with it suddenly they find themselves a new target, so you're stuck trying to keep at your aoe enmity generation while figuring out which one's bailing on the pack next. The ones that do this, they also seem to be the ones never using their enmity tools either.

Many dpsers seem to think it's cool to pull off of the tank. Instead of switching targets like a decent player, they will blow everything they have on a single target until they pull, then insult the tank.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

Ya OK so I got tired of everyone complaining about how hard it is to keep enmity, I have come to the conclusion that everyone who has been having enmity issues, is most likely trying to tank dungeon trash in their DPS stance. Please stop.

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When you are facing one mob is more than obvious duh, STOP assuming all tanks wants to swap to "DPS" stance, if you really are tanking before the patch you like me and many others noticed that something is going wrong

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Originally Posted by Junyroku

When you are facing one mob is more than obvious duh, STOP assuming all tanks wants to swap to "DPS" stance, if you really are tanking before the patch you like me and many others noticed that something is going wrong

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Also WAR has the easiest time holding aggro in groups.

Overpower 130 potency increased enmity total 650? In tank stance
Unleash 50 potency increased enemity 250?
Flash 500 potency

what I do on pulls

trash packs: unmend>1 or 2 unleash>AD till oom>hard slash>syphon strike>AD, repeat hard slash>syphon strike>AD a few times if needed
boss: dark arts>unmend>CnS>hard slash>dark arts>spinning slash>power slash>hard slash>spinning slash>power slash, usually good on threat then

Enmity*

Sorry, I had to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EusisLandale

2. Red Mages in particular seem to have an unhealthy obsession with trying to pull off the tank. Give them what they want: Shirk them until they learn to properly use Diversion and Lucid Dreaming.

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RDMs just generate an absurd amount of hate even with Diversion. This won't fix anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

Ya OK so I got tired of everyone complaining about how hard it is to keep enmity, and how it's so annoying to play Warrior now because they no longer have Flash.

Well... I just went into Kugane Castle with all my VIT accessories, SIXTY THOUSAND HP!!! @__@ Told the DRG + SAM to try their hardest to steal agro from me. I pulled as many trash as I could in each phase (except during Summoners).

I lost agro once, and that was because I got distracted. I just switched to it, used Provoke + Overpower, and focused it. Nothing else happened.

So what's going on? Am I some sort of AMAZING TANK for being able to pull this off? No... that can't be it. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that everyone who has been having enmity issues, is most likely trying to tank dungeon trash in their DPS stance. Please stop.

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Were these dps randoms? You need to control for if your dps are actually good or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EusisLandale

2. Red Mages in particular seem to have an unhealthy obsession with trying to pull off the tank. Give them what they want: Shirk them until they learn to properly use Diversion and Lucid Dreaming.

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I do JUST that. As a tank.... I switch my role actions around to have Shirk just to kill off RDMs lol

But when I'm a RDM, I learned the hard way to chill and wait for the tank to grab stuff AND build enmity. I also have both Diversion and Lucid Dreaming picked up.

~Phoenicia~

Been playing Drk, honestly I like that it's a challenge to keep hate. It keeps me on my toes. I also like being able to rip from tanks as blm. The only time I rip hate is when I drop double Fouls. All in all it's more fun across the board. I think folks need to chill out, it's just trash.

aggro combo and the aoe provoke are not there for showing off.....

i have had literally no issues at all holding hate as a lvl 70 pld or a lvl 68 DRK.

cant comment on war but i imagine its largely the same.


the DPS i play with dont even have enmity reduction skills on there hotbar because, honestly, with how easy it is to hold hate (now and back then) they arent needed in the slightest unless u get a novice tank. the tanks are definantly doing something wrong here (outside of RDM burst because no way you can seriously keep hate from using a shield lob and a fast blade, as RDM burst happens in its second GCD) but shortly after you should be on ur aggro combo and seal hate with ur third tier combo.

Edit - to mention that i dont only play with friends, i duty find alot, so i get tossed around with random results, so its not a case of my friends knowing how to control themselves. its just braindead easy to hold hate in general, literally have not noticed a single difference in enmity for SB outside of it being easier in 8man content to tank swap

People, while tanks have a bit harder time holding enmity, every DPS now has its own hate shed skill. Problem is everyone has the ARR/HW mentality of not needing to use it, but now it's necessary. No longer is it okay for just tanks to set it and forget it with enmity, but DPS need to do their part and use Diversion/Refresh/Tactician. But no DPS wants to, cuz "Muh bloodbath/second wind".

But since arr I had this thing in my mind... I hold aggro, but if the dps doesn't behave like he suppose to, who cares then, you have a hp bar that is meant to be hit.....If I did something wrong, wipe, restart and keep going.

Emnity is easy to keep as a warrior. Tamohawk -> overpower -> infuriate -> steel cyclone -> overpower. Thats it. Over power again ever now and then and you are good

As a PLD, I can hold hate but it is much more difficult than it was before. Spamming flash on groups still works really well, but now that I have total eclipse, I'd rather use that as much as possible. Similarly, on single targets, weaving in the Halone combo works well, but because my dps has gotten so much better, I'd rather use a RA combo instead. I don't mind having to sit in tank stance the entire time, but micro managing threat isn't that much fun to me. The same is true of the time I spend on RDM. I used both lucid dreaming and diversion really often, but I still often wound up having to throttle down the damage I was outputting which sucked. I would prefer it if they redid the enmity calculations and enmity went back to something you set early in the fight and maintained through use of your regular abilities. The current system of constantly refreshing it with enmity specific abilities isn't as fun for me.

RDM Threat generation just seems out of control in general. It's quite annoying. As a PLD theres nothing like using Flash and CoS, then not even having time to get a first ability off and watch mobs run away because the RDM has already pulled threat from me.

The only problems I've had was when I was still in HQ whites/some greens and had to manage 3+ mobs, with either a RDM or SAM not using their enmity cooldowns and spazzing out on one target.
With comparable gear, hate hasn't been an issue at all.

Honestly, I hold enmity just fine right now. I had problems before, when I was a fresh 70 and queued into a 70 dungeon with dpsers in full blues or half blue and half green. But now that I'm in mostly blue with some green, I have zero problems holding enmity. I do have to watch out for that one odd sam or rdm, but it's all worked out well so far. Sometimes, they do creep up but it's not something a DA+PS won't fix.

What I find annoying, sometimes, is when dps don't switch targets. I know they don't have to, and I should hold enmity on them all, but this becomes exceedingly difficult when there are many numbers of targets to keep track of.

3 or 4 flash as a paladin is usually enough to keep a group of mobs never had issue losing them

If I am not mistaken flash for paladin is scale by ilevel from what rememberd on the patch note years ago

Just abyssal drain even without Da it does vastly better job at holding hate 3 AD"s or so and then aggro combos work fine unless people are ham aoeing then just keep up the AD until you need mp then get in a couple siphon strikes and return to AD if stuff isn't dead

I don't really have much enmity issues. I have noticed that it's a lot easier with drk then it is with war. See if they are doing single target or aoe. If it's single target dmg you should attack their target and throw drain or unleashed every now and then. The worst thing is if all of your dps is doing single target dmg to multiple enemy.

the RDM pulling off the start is because their burst it absurd from the Dual cast shenanigans. Shock and amazement tanks need to actually open with high threat moves and not just wooo mad deeps yeah