Question for all the salty tanks

I see alot of posts from tanks raging if a dps or healer decides to pull some random mobs here and there. And from when I tanked I\\'ll admit that I kinda got sad when they survived these rogue pulls. Not that I wanted to fail, but because it made me feel like well...wtf, this is my job.

Now you know how it feels. The war nerf expecially had to happen. You had a god class that had sustain, burst, Self heals out the ass, and was pretty much best in game. Everyone crying for equality didn\\'t seem to mind when pld and drk were ignored in party comps for double war. The nerf needed to happen there\'s no reason you should be outdpsing dps roles, or healing yourself to that extent. Now your job is to tank, you have to rely on the party. Your damage was nice, but it was just bonus like healer dps. The problem is war should have never been that strong in the first place, so elevating all tanks to that level would have made it harder to make content but you still TANK just fine.

Where's the question?

There is none. But it would get them curious id hope, then they can read one person's perspective on how their tanking isn't broken. They just aren't god of all anymore.
Maybe one less person will make a complaining post about their dps.
Blm can't heal, and is the only caster without raise, but we aren't crying and we went through horrors in 3.0

I havent tried WAR yet just looked at the abilities. Getting DRK to 70 was rough until everything clicked. WAR was a broken class, I mained WAR during 2.0 in 3.0 it was my off tanking class and yeah soloing bosses from 10% raid bosses at 2% was great but i can see the reason for the change. They are not useless but I know when I get to leveling it I will have to relearn the limits of the class just as I did with DRK. WAR shouldnt bitch about the changes. Your not SCH or SMN. They got the worst. We just have to relearn the class

Paladin is actually a decent class now, Warrior is still good, but tanks need their VIT damage scaling back no exceptions.

Ehhh I'm fine with all the nerfs to WAR they were WAY to strong, my problem is how clunky they've become.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Paladin is actually a decent class now, Warrior is still good, but tanks need their VIT damage scaling back no exceptions.

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Holding aggro against two Samurai's or Red Mage's is annoying enough and it'll only get worse as time goes on, so I hope they figure something about soon.

I'm not a War main, and I don't think Tanking is fine in the long term with the current state of things. If this continues, it will become rather difficult for tanks to maintain aggro due to the damage gap between them and DPS, because damage generates enmity. Twelve forbid the DPS forgets to use their enmity reducer (or refuses to use them in some cases).

This isn't just a thing in the English community either; the Japanese community also wants some changes like going back to the Vit+Str damage calculation. There's a movement in both communities for changes.

A now 28 page thread from the Japanese Tank forums: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...81%97%E3%81%84

I'll agree that rdm and Sam numbers are too much, I get that se wants them used but they are op as well, (rdm hits like a truck) and is messing with party comps. It feels like they don't know what they want to do with tank stats, dropped str, then vit, they do need to figure something out there. Honestly I'm just tired of seeing people complain their war isn't topping dps, or might need outside heals now

I'm pretty certain all the tanks are talking about stat issues right now, such as the vit/str issue and also tenacity being absolutely worthless of a stat. Both War and Drk don't really care if Paladin is good right now, they just want their jobs either fixed or balanced properly. A simple example: Dark Knight's Dark Passenger's mana is too high, it's literally never used due to two abyssal drains being better. Likewise, if there's an enmity struggle now (Sam's take way too much threat, RDM do it too fast), then that's not a "git gud" thing, it's a balance problem that players are putting up with.

In general people need to get over this attitude of "you had your time in the sun so you deserve this". It's not like these players MADE anything weak or strong, it's the devs. Furthermore, telling people to shut up and play something they no longer like (but did), is incredibly rude and is a good enough reason as any to never tank for you or anyone else with said attitude.

If you guys want shorter queues, I don't get why you'd want to upset your tanks so much that they'd switch jobs (most to Sam as I've seen). Honestly, having all the tanks balanced and good seems like a pretty good move for the playerbase as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

A now 28 page thread from the Japanese Tank forums: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...81%97%E3%81%84

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This is a good thing, I hope we can keep fightning on both sides to sort this out as soon as possible with the dev. team.

tenancity isn't a worthless stat btw lol My g/f melds it and does good damage. She melds ten/det and uses ten/crit food. If anything she has an issue with enmity, but barely it's mostly due to ppl not using their enmity reducers.

but ya vit and only vit should be the damage stat for tanks. Every role as their own damage calculation tied to their main stat, yet not tank.

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Originally Posted by Kalocin

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Part of the Enmity problem is people not using their cross-role skills, like at all.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

tenancity isn't a worthless stat btw lol My g/f melds it and does good damage. She melds ten/det and uses ten/crit food. If anything she has an issue with enmity, but barely it's mostly due to ppl not using their enmity reducers.

but ya vit and only vit should be the damage stat for tanks. Every role as their own damage calculation tied to their main stat, yet not tank.

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Sorry but Tenacity is without a doubt worthless, and there's math to prove it.

If you not mass pulling as a tank in any dungeon you doing it wrong =_= and if a healer can't heal a 2 group pull that healer is a bad healer

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

If you not mass pulling as a tank in any dungeon you doing it wrong =_= and if a healer can't heal a 2 group pull that healer is a bad healer

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Let's say that I would like to start a tank class (PLD) and that I don't like rushing dungeons so I would take mobs one pack at a time, I would do it wrong ?
Just a way of seeing things, for me I would do it perfectly right.

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Originally Posted by Tinibou

Let's say that I would like to start a tank class (PLD) and that I don't like rushing dungeons so I would take mobs one pack at a time, I would do it wrong ?
Just a way of seeing things, for me I would do it perfectly right.

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That is understandable if you are inexperience but in general that is what a tank and healer should be doing

Its not required if you inexperience

For me I will always do a mass pull on the first pull to gauge the healer experience if we wipe I will have no choice but to do single pull a healer can be as highly geared and still can't heal 2 group of mobs I have died to single pull with a i310 healer

Came to the conclusion:

Popular Hard-Core raider go on camera and state about meta this that and the other, everyone jumps onto the bandwagon, and roll a class that is the flavour of the month or in War case flavour of FF XIV and then they level away knowing they are untouchable and will always be viable no matter how OP they are, billion hp, self-heals that make healers redundant and awesome dps that make most dps classes sit and rethink their life.

Then SE have the idea of making a new expansion and instead of making us hit for a billion more damage the team get their heads together and go, look guys this is bs we need Tanks to do just that Tank! and then another guy goes well healers are stuck in a thing atm were they need to stance dance to follow this god awful meta that makes them have to dps and heal, lets rework that so Healers can now do both, but let’s also remind these players that they are Healers! so we will make sure their dps doesn't out do the dps players. Then a guy at the back who's been a sleep for most of the meeting perks up and says I know we will make the Samurai the best dps class in the game and all the rest of the dps classes can be utility support that will shake up those players in a rut.

And off they plod to the developers and say look, numbers and then developers, smile and say that's nice and then go ahead and re balance the game, realising that some classes have been neglected since launch and give them a push up the arse to actually do the content without some vlogger telling them they are not worthy of a slot anymore.

And in the desire to re address the issue with player character balancing, the mobs also got the same changes, which now means anything that was happening in 3.0 is pretty much no go, with some players "Tanking and Healing" as if it was and they come to a cropper when they realise you can't start pulling 15 mobs a time because VIT doesn't add any enmity stats like it did and those classes that relied heavily on it to DPS as well as Tank are not generating the same amount they did before.

To quote Larry off his hilarious videos "Players Adjust" you can't cry you got nerfed at all, SE have changed the question, it is now for you to find the answers and start a fresh. And I still stand by the fact no one can say shit about Paladins at all, when you have a class that has been neglected since launch to deny them their chance in the spotlight it just about as spiteful as you can get

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Originally Posted by GDFletcher

Snip.

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...What? /10char

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Originally Posted by Medicine

Sorry but Tenacity is without a doubt worthless, and there's math to prove it.

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by math you mean parser? if so.... take it with a grain of salt. ten does more then you think. and ya it does help.

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Originally Posted by Genoreaper

There is none. But it would get them curious id hope, then they can read one person's perspective on how their tanking isn't broken. They just aren't god of all anymore.
Maybe one less person will make a complaining post about their dps.
Blm can't heal, and is the only caster without raise, but we aren't crying and we went through horrors in 3.0

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I really hate seeing you act like you're somehow an expert on Tanking when your highest level Tank Job is your level 58 DRK and you don't even have WAR or PLD unlocked. Meaning your Tanking experience is limited to nothing but ARR and early HW. Seeing as you need to be level 60 to access the majority of later HW content. That and this also means you quite clearly have not even touched Tanking in Stormblood content. Therefore you have absolutely no idea of what Tanking in Stormblood is like. So please stop talking out your arse and acting like you're somehow an expert on Tanks.

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

If you not mass pulling as a tank in any dungeon you doing it wrong =_= and if a healer can't heal a 2 group pull that healer is a bad healer

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if you mass pulling a dungeon, you doing it wrong imo. just making it more work for tank/healer. Plus the way the new content/classes changes work not all tanks can mass pull easy.

The big issue right now is tanking is taking a step backwards, toolkits are clunky/not flowing well, devs not knowing what they want to do with Vit/St/Tenacity. Not to mention we have reverted to using ilvl 270 slaying pieces from the previous expansion that's seriously messed up and shows the backwards nature of tanking at this moment.

I don't blame anyone for not wanting to play their classes they used to play the whole tank class community is up in arms and we have no answers, no changes, just "it's working as intended guys". It really isn't and it's the biggest fault I have with this expansion the devs took the tanks backwards and we're left with what we have now and I can see all these valid complaints.

I'm gonna continue tanking as a Drk for my static, there's things I miss about my class, things that frustrate me, and things I just don't understand why they are at this time and it makes me worried for the future for tanks.

I disagree with people saying tenacity is a worthless stat. It's pretty good and I m still able to carry as lvll 70 war. I just feel like dmg is divided into 5 cleaves instead 2. I don't have any problems to hold agroo as warrior except om multiple mobs pulls. Feels like i have to spam overpower a bit more. You can't hold agroo efficiently In off stance on multiple mobs. I threw cleaves by 11k each 4 times and once 9k on 301 ilvl. Either way if they decide to change it to str + vit or not I'm set because I love warrior and I can't get to drk. It feels gutted out and not as fun to play anymore. Actually now I m more interested in paladin then drk. Changes were too harsh on drk :c.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

by math you mean parser? if so.... take it with a grain of salt. ten does more then you think. and ya it does help.

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It's not worthless, but it's definitely not good. Math has been done on it, at a whopping 1750 tenacity, you'd only be getting a 4% increase to damage done, damage reduction, and increased healing....4%

That is absolutely nothing at that amount of stat points you could invest in something else

I'm a tank.

Generally, I'll pull from camp to camp. Rarely do I increase the pace unless somebody asks me to.

Some times people don't ask and they just pull, I'll do some AoE hate generation to get the mobs on me, maybe pop some CDs. Then we go on our merry way. If the DPS still want to do it, go on right ahead and I'll keep doing my job by pulling it off them.

...............I don't see why other tanks get salty? There are bigger things in life to spend mental energy on.

I don't mind the lack of tank dps, but I would like an increase to enmity.

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

I'm not a War main, and I don't think Tanking is fine in the long term with the current state of things. If this continues, it will become rather difficult for tanks to maintain aggro due to the damage gap between them and DPS, because damage generates enmity. Twelve forbid the DPS forgets to use their enmity reducer (or refuses to use them in some cases).

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Problem with this game is, that you get rewarded for stealing the aggro of the tank. If I'm second on aggrolist and close to the tank I get dozens of VIP-votes for the content. If I use all reducers I have, I get None.

Since the game lacks any parser, PUK-Groups rely on aggro-meter for determing who was effective.

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Originally Posted by Talec

Problem with this game is, that you get rewarded for stealing the aggro of the tank. If I'm second on aggrolist and close to the tank I get dozens of VIP-votes for the content. If I use all reducers I have, I get None.

Since the game lacks any parser, PUK-Groups rely on aggro-meter for determing who was effective.

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That seems.. incorrect. I use Diversion on cooldown pretty much as SAM, and still get commendations. To be fair, I HAVE to use it on cooldown or I rip hate off the tank constantly.

On topic, something does need to be tweaked. Idk if its Samurais damage output, Tanks having emnity issues or what.. but the number of times I have to back away and stop dpsing in dungeons is just getting worse as I slowly get my Samurai geared up. And I'm not even in full 310 yet, let alone the EX primal gear. Something isn't working properly.

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Originally Posted by Talec

Problem with this game is, that you get rewarded for stealing the aggro of the tank. If I'm second on aggrolist and close to the tank I get dozens of VIP-votes for the content. If I use all reducers I have, I get None.

Since the game lacks any parser, PUK-Groups rely on aggro-meter for determing who was effective.

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Do you get mad when the tank doesn't pick it back up right away?

Another schadenfreude thread gloating about WAR changes. Whatever.

Not every WAR is salty. I'm not. SB works fine for me, and my FC doesn't play the meta game where only 2x PLD can tank XYZ encounter.

There are some glaring issues that need to be fixed for all tanks (STR scaling for dmg and no STR on >270 accessories, Tenacity scaling being a total joke and essentially worthless in every possible way, etc), but it's virtually a guarantee they'll get tweaked and fixed. WAR are fine, but need some minor improvements to the job on top of the fixes to the tanking role in general.

Hardly unplayable though, and totally not worth getting salty about.