Tutorials for people using Job Jump potions?

Hi, sorry if this is in the wrong thread. Recently we've encountered numerous new players that have used job jump potions in the 4.0 dungeons and I feel bad for them.

I think the game should offer tutorials they cannot skip upon entry explaining how to do the basics. I know hall of novice is in but these new players are being thrown in and their first dungeon is a 61 dungeon @_@. They don't know basic rotations, basic commands for the game, positioning for their jobs, or even how to return when dead.

Shouldn't their be a in game instance or tutorial besides hall of novice to demonstrate these basic actions? Something that explains all their actions that they would normally learn how to play in low level dungeons or low level msq perhaps?

I know the community is here to help once we're in the dungeon and we should try to help them, but I do think that a 61+ dungeon should not be their very first dungeon is all.

sorry for ranting ~

Isn't this the thing that jump potion naysayers were saying which got shot down?

No surprises there. Seeing as anyone who was against the Jump Potions knew full well this was going to happen. But those in favor just kept insisting that new players surely wouldn't be buying these potions and that the problem of people who don't know how to play the game wouldn't get any worse. Yet here we are now. Also, those potions turned out to be WAY cheaper than people were initially expecting. Since their price as it stands now wouldn't stand as much of a deterrent to a brand new player when their only other option is to slowly slog through all of ARR and HW just to reach the Stormblood content.

Hall of the novice and intermediate should be put into the MSQ, and new players HAVE to use it, all job qsts go threw there so they have to complete it to get their new skills and advance the msq and learn basics like dodging and rotations.

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Originally Posted by Immortalizd

Hall of the novice and intermediate should be put into the MSQ, and new players HAVE to use it, all job qsts go threw there so they have to complete it to get their new skills and advance the msq and learn basics like dodging and rotations.

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As it stands, hall of the intermediate doesn't even exist yet, let alone tying it to the MSQ. That content should have been implemented before jump potions

Not only for people who used potion but for veteran players who also need to sort out too.

They tell you to visit the hall of novice when you use one.

Hall of the Novice is fine being optional when you're leveling normally, but it should be required if you use a jump potion.

Novice and intermediate halls should be put in place for jump pot users. Its not fair to us and more importantly, its not fair to them. You can't be advertising such an item for the game and not have a structured tutorial for them to go through.

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Originally Posted by RubenSnizzle

They tell you to visit the hall of novice when you use one.

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"Bah, I don't need that. I'm good at playing videogames."
—Every jump potion user and newbie when reaching 15.
For real tho, telling someone to do something, a suggestion, won't sink in. Like dark souls tutorial, it's just suggestions written on the floor.
Both newbies and jump potion users should go through the Hall, as in an obligation. Shitty I know, but that way you encourage good playing from the get go instead of setting it as optional and creating these "carry me, senpai" monsters xP

Well the decision was made despite numerous arguements against them, with rational issues being things like such. At least Bardem's Mettle is the halfway point before they get to the menagerie, to be fair the novice trials really didnt teach a whole lot at all

The biggest issue I've ran into trying out the Jump potion + scenario skip book on a trial character is that using the book and potion doesn't appear to complete the quests for dying armor, glamour, the stylist for the hair, etc. This can make it a bit awkward for players using the system. It also doesn't auto-complete a lot of the side quests, so depending on the individuals preferences that can be annoying as well.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Well the decision was made despite numerous arguements against them, with rational issues being things like such. At least Bardem's Mettle is the halfway point before they get to the menagerie, to be fair the novice trials really didnt teach a whole lot at all

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2 people can carry that boss. As long as 2 people clear 2 out of the 3 trials you can proceed. It's not really the best trial thingie in the world.

I had a "mainstream scenario" run today where... everyone was playing it like PotD, how do two people manage to die before the first boss? Tank runs up to collect the trash mobs, but all the DPS are firing away while the tank is running, thus the mobs come back to eat their face. I've also seen this in virtually all content. It never used to be this way.

The jump potions and the PotD have absolutely ruined players ability to learn how to do anything in the game that they would normally learn just by using that job in those dungeons. Everyone keeps trying to zerg rush.

Like, if you're going to let players skip the content, you should at least force them, and PotD leveling to do a solo level-cap trial before letting them continue on to 50+ and 60+ content. That content should test that the player actually knows how to play that role (tanking, healing, or dps) and isn't merely being carried or making things unnecessarily chaotic.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

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Because gear plays a role in how challenging the content is and if someone has been playing for a long time, even having something like the Ironworks gear turns those main scenario quests into a joke. If someone is leveling and is in appropriate gear for the content it will be challenging and they can die easy if they are less experienced. That is how the game actually works. People are going to be geared with whatever the MSQ gives them along with side quests and you can't expect people to be experienced and have top notch gear in the MSQ content. I'm not a fan of having this game community devolve into freaking world of warcraft.

I didn't even notice the difference in DF. I honestly forgot they added the jump potion. My experience in DF has still been the same... majority of people being terrible like people said.

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Originally Posted by Remus

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This. To a degree.

What definitely has happened with PoTD and jump potions is that it's happening accross the whole leveling process now as opposed to generally petering out around Cutters Cry.

I hate the mentality PoTD bred in the DF, jump potions just made it worse.

I had a healer with a newbie plant next to her name in the last story trial of SB...I looked at her profile and saw that this was the only true job to 70 so I knew that she must have bought a jump potion. She was terrible at healing and I believe that she did not even have swiftcast..we stood no chance.

I am not saying that those people are wrong to buy this but I still hope that I get better healers next time and I really hope that those healers and other jumpers are training a lot otherwise they will have a hard time in this game.

For the love of the twelve, yes. Or at least read a guide about what you're boosting. Both the ASTs I had in my Zurvan normal just now were level boosted. They let the MT die somehow which made Zurvan turn his sights on my squishy BLM self. Thankfully Lucid Dreaming and Diversion saved me. I ended up dying though to unavoidable damage from the DoT he throws on you to break the seals because they threw zero heals on me despite me being right next to one of them.

Pretty much my experience with boosted players has been terrible. However, I don't think it's even because of the boost because I'm sure they'd still be terrible otherwise. I'm just getting them in my groups in later content because of it.

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Originally Posted by Remus

I didn't even notice the difference in DF. I honestly they forgot they added the jump potion. My experience in DF has still been the same... majority of people being terrible like people said.

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Same here. I think the AST in my Susano normal was boosted because they went Diurnal Sect but never kept A.Bene on the tank, or used Collective/Earthly Star/Dignity...I think I did something like double their healing numbers - in Noct Sect lol.

Honestly, the only thing that made me think they were a booster was the total absence of any Aspected Bene whatsoever. Not using any of the other abilities is pretty par for the course in my dealing with other DF ASTs.

There should definitely be something. I jumped a job myself, and wouldn't mind going through a trial as part of it regardless of my knowledge of the job. A lot of players who are jumping as brand new players are probably expecting something more like WoW where you can be at least passable with only a few buttons on many classes, then they log in and look at their bars like O_O uh...

...I'll just spam this one ability and hope nobody notices. >_>

A tutorial about each attack or combo would be nice. I mean when I unlocked samurai and red mage I was really overwhelmed with all the skills that I suddenly had and I dont want to know how this would feel with a instant lvl60 job. And if they are new to the game they also have to learn about all the different AOEs and other game mechanics too so I think a forced tutorial would be the best for all.

Does the job potion unlock the dungeons as well? Because if not, no optional dungeons would be available and the first dungeon they would enter would be satasha as normal and they would progress through the dungeons normally so I don't see an issue there.

Now if they did msq and job jump potion then yes I see issues and the value of a required tutorial.

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Originally Posted by BlastHardcheese

This. To a degree.

What definitely has happened with PoTD and jump potions is that it's happening accross the whole leveling process now as opposed to generally petering out around Cutters Cry.

I hate the mentality PoTD bred in the DF, jump potions just made it worse.

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The only reason they needed PoTD was the overabundance of DPS vs tanks and healers leading to longer queue times for dungeons and other instances. This of course meant that a number of players never got exposed to mechanics to learn how to play properly.

Hall of Novice literally pops up when you use it. Though, it doesn't really help with situations that you learn when doing dungeons. So forcing people to actually do it, may not really help. New or old alike. Either they will learn while in the dungeons, or they won't. The best thing to do is to help if they're willing to accept the help, then at least they'll know what to do for the next run they happen to queue into.

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Originally Posted by Erys

"Bah, I don't need that. I'm good at playing videogames."
—Every jump potion user and newbie when reaching 15.
For real tho, telling someone to do something, a suggestion, won't sink in. Like dark souls tutorial, it's just suggestions written on the floor.
Both newbies and jump potion users should go through the Hall, as in an obligation. Shitty I know, but that way you encourage good playing from the get go instead of setting it as optional and creating these "carry me, senpai" monsters xP

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Carry me senpai monsters are a type of player, and the cause for them is the kind of person they are, not anything the game does. People who actually desire to become good players will seek out ways to improve on their own.

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Originally Posted by Immortalizd

Hall of the novice and intermediate should be put into the MSQ, and new players HAVE to use it, all job qsts go threw there so they have to complete it to get their new skills and advance the msq and learn basics like dodging and rotations.

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hall of novice, and the novice network are mentioned in the msq. before you go to sastasha it takes you to the hall of novice. It does teach you the basics, but most of the community doesn't follow them but their own weird standards.

People will still not care even with a tutorial.

Honestly, the jump potions and MSQ jump have bigger functional issues than being the assumed cause of player skill dips. I did experiment with trying it out on a new character over on Couerl to see what kind of benefits the service would provide to someone who is starting out in the game, and I think they didn't quite hit all the right spots with the system. If someone uses the level jump they should get all the optional services unlocked as a part of it, such as the ability to glamour, dye armor, and have access to the aesthetician. I was honestly surprised that even the MSQ jump didn't include these features.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Honestly, the jump potions and MSQ jump have bigger functional issues than being the assumed cause of player skill dips. I did experiment with trying it out on a new character over on Couerl to see what kind of benefits the service would provide to someone who is starting out in the game, and I think they didn't quite hit all the right spots with the system. If someone uses the level jump they should get all the optional services unlocked as a part of it, such as the ability to glamour, dye armor, and have access to the aesthetician. I was honestly surprised that even the MSQ jump didn't include these features.

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Because they are not required for the MSQ, the players still have the ability to find them with the "new feature quest" icon.

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Originally Posted by Sarevok_Thordin

Because they are not required for the MSQ, the players still have the ability to find them with the "new feature quest" icon.

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Yes the player can still do them himself, just that if someone is paying 60 usd to boost and MSQ skip they probably should get the services unlocked as well.