It's time to break up and begin anew.

You know it, I know it, and I bet Yoshi-P and his team know it. It's time for Sch and Smn to get a divorce. They made them sound like this was the picture perfect couple and that they would be setting others up to be like this, but...it just didn't work. They are both tired of one holding the other back (devs afraid to do too much with their base class because they walk a thin line of making one op and the other too weak, #BaneNerfHurts). So, as sad as it is (double the leveling), it's time for a separation.

I definitely don't foresee it happening anytime in this expansion, but for the next one, I would be more than ok with the seperation being touted as "new classes" to add to whatever they are currently thinking of atm (money on Blue Mage). The question is, though, what to do with Sch? Smn could keep most of arcanist and be fine, since they are the dot casters (that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see things changed, added, or tweaked), but I would like to talk about my favorite class in all of Final Fantasy, the Scholar.

Scholars in Final Fantasy have always been the type of mage that likes efficiency, whether it be through offensive or supportive magic. They would still most definitely be a healer, but maybe have some rewards for going the extra distance in "efficiency" of being able to keep others healed *and* help take down enemies. My thoughts (however little they mean), is to remove Aetherflow from Scholar and replace it with something akin to FFXI Scholar. Maybe we could make a Dark/White Arts gauge that is a grimoire that fills up its pages with text, or just a simple bar (à la Red Mage), cast healing spells and one side of the grimoire fills up white, and cast damage dealing spells for the other side to fill up with black.

From this, we can spend it on 1-2 abilities of the appropriate kind. Say you filled up the Black side, well, then you could spend it all on a single target nuke or aoe dot. Fill up the White and you can spend it a heal nuke or aoe regen. This could even be on long cd's, or the bar could take awhile to fill up, but either way, you are rewarded for being efficient with your time and most definitely defining a style of healing for us.

I would still keep Sch as a mitigation healer, keeping up the barriers and such, since I think a mitigation healer would fit this play style very well. Also, I would keep the fairies, as they are bound to our lore, make this Sch unique from the others, and they can still help us keep people healed while we do damage since they are kind of another form of mitigation. Of course, I wouldn't make it to where they are doing all the work, but helping prolong our dps time to fill up the Black gauge.

This doesn't mean I want us to be overpowered enough to keep up with the pure healing of Whm, nor do I want us to be able to provide as much dps as...well, a good dps, but feeling like we contributed directly to taking down enemies is a great feeling, and one that I have loved from previous Scholars in the FF series.

I like the direction they were going with Chain Stratagem (ok, I saw Stratagem, it looked like Libra, and had nostalgia), but some of their other choices seem questionable (*cough* Bane, losing a dot, Ast better shielding, why get rid of sustain!? *cough*). But, some of it was good, fairy nerf, broil buff, the *idea* of a heal that will activate on its own, and the *idea* of making fairy focus on tank healing.

I know Yoshi-P and his team will probably never see this (not only from a language standpoint, but also from a "just another fan idea for a job change" point, and I *HIGHLY* doubt they would even think of doing this), but I thought it to be interesting and just wanted to share my thoughts. I didn't want to go into specifics, like, the entire kit of arcanist that would be replaced from this separation with all the individual skills, but just kind of a core thing for them.

Honestly, now that they've show they're willing to give Jobs the Mastery traits to split spells, I don't think they really need to be separated. It would be fairly easy to use things like Corruption Mastery and Broil Mastery to just phase out the Arcanist spells entirely in favor of SCH equivalents, which could then be balanced appropriately without touching SMN.

...I like your black/white idea, and am now trying to figure out away to make that into a trait-upgraded Aetherflow, and failing completely. Or at least, failing to think of something that wouldn't likely be extremely broken (Still returning MP, gives charges to both sides). ...maybe if it only charged each side up half way... A suggestion on that idea though; it would probably work better if you crossed the skills. So heals would build up the gauge that you cast the big DPS spells from, and vise versa.

EDIT: I have also seen the idea that that should push it more toward being the "pet healer" like SMN is being pushed more toward being the "pet DPS" with DamiBahamut (as opposed the the "DoT DPS who also has a pet" that they were in HW). Fey Union does seem like it's trying to go in this direction, if they fix at least it's range issue and do something about it being mutually exclusive with Dissipation.

The stratagems system of scholar in FFXI was one of the best systems in that game and I feel like it has a great place with scholar in ffxiv as well. Stratagem charges could very easily replace aetherflow (the whole damn thing) for scholars. It would introduce a sort of system that parallels the cards of arcanist but in a new way. Charges of strategems would achieve goals like spreading future heals/shields/damage, extending or intensifying effects, and so on.

http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Stratagem

That's the list of stratagems from FFXI for some insight in to what they are and what they can do, but I have always felt that they are a system that is missing from the class in FFXIV, far more class-defining than the fairy and the class "style" that scholar has been shoehorned into as a result of being melded with SMN. I don't mind them having a fairy but I don't have any idea what it has to do with being a scholar.

The system would be something like this:
You can hold up to 4 stratagems at a time (displayed on the new UI as 4 in a cross, something similar to the aetherflow ui is in style would be fine). Each stratagem can be consumed to create an affect that is applied to the next viable spell. Choices include:
Light stratagem: Celerity - Your next healing spell with a cast time becomes instant.
Light stratagem: Penury - Your next healing spell with a cost becomes free.
Light stratagem: Accession - Your next beneficial or healing spell with an effect is applied to targets nearby your primary target.
Light stratagem: Potency - Your next healing spell is cast a second time for free on the same target.

You would have a similar idea for attack magic spells as well, although I feel like the keybinds are getting a bit crazy by then.

You gain one charge per x seconds (15? 20?). You can use as many charges as you want at a time but only one of each effect can be active at a time (the UI would show which charges are on cooldown, and which buff is contained in yet-unused charges).

This is basically a resource system that makes the healer flexible; they can buff spells in whichever way is the most beneficial for the moment. Obviously the effects would need to be balanced against each other and which spells they can be used on and so fourth so there isnt a clear cut winner every time.

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Originally Posted by Furious

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This is basically a resource system that makes the healer flexible; they can buff spells in whichever way is the most beneficial for the moment. Obviously the effects would need to be balanced against each other and which spells they can be used on and so fourth so there isnt a clear cut winner every time.

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Sounds fantastic.

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Originally Posted by Furious

The stratagems system of scholar in FFXI was one of the best systems in that game and I feel like it has a great place with scholar in ffxiv as well.

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I agree completely, FFXI Scholar was really fun and I would switch to it in a heartbeat if they separated the playstyle from SMN and gave it as versatile a stratagem system as FFXI.

Here's a mock-up of how I see it working, as an example.

http://i.imgur.com/n9mNuA9.jpg

First picture, the scholar has all 4 charges available. No stratagem is active, no cooldown is ticking (can't have more than 4 stratagems)

Second picture, the scholar has activated Stratagem: Accession. That buff is now active, and the charge is cooling down. He has 3 charges available, and the next beneficial effect will be AoE (Adloquium shield, for example). Spells that don't work with this buff will not consume it (ie: succor).

Third picture, the scholar has activated all 4 stratagems. They will apply to whichever spells are able to use them first cast. Eg if he was to cast succor > physick, the succor would first consume Potency, penury and celerity (so it would be 50% stronger, cast twice as fast and free) and then the physic would use accession (it would become an aoe heal).

A charge used while no charges are on cooldown will have a 15 second cooldown.
A charge used while 1 charge is on cooldown will incur a 20 second cooldown.
A charge used while 2 charges are on cooldown will incur a 25 second cooldown.
A charge used while 3 charges are on cooldown will incur a 30 second cooldown.

(This is to discourage "preloading" all the charges to start all the cooldowns - it's potentially better to use them one at a time for quicker cooldowns but if you need to use them for a hard section of the fight you can at a larger cooldown).

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Originally Posted by Furious

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Yeah, the Stratagems were really good, and I think they could work something like that into here for healing and damage (and would actually have some ui indications on the charges!!!). I don't think they would do Celerity, though, seeing as how we have swiftcast. They would probably make each its own spell, like Accession being its own AoE healing ability, or Potency being its own type of heal nuke.

They would probably be afraid to make them their own buffs out of fear for the amount of stacking you could do (stacking the buffs together), or they would not like the bloat that would be added back to the class they are trying to get rid of (even though we still have things to choose from like Break).

light stratagem: rapture?

Tbh, I'd rather SCH keep the ACN junk and SMN get re-tooled to something more appropriate. Poisons aren't insanely riveting but they at least kind of thematically fit a "strategy mage". A harnesser of primal energy like SMN really shouldn't be represented with such visually bland abilities like Bio and Miasma, IMO.

At this point I think it's unlikely that either of the two will be revisited, though. I've long maintained that SMN and AST are two jobs that, while functional, are pretty flawed design-wise and would love to see them given full overhauls, but this game doesn't seem to put much thought in improving old jobs vs. making sure to churn out new ones every expac so fans don't riot.

Doing away with the classes would be the most ideal opportunity for the dev team to 'divorce' the two jobs. As a matter of fact, they would accomplish it through pure happenstance if they did that. I know it's in their agenda, so I think your wish will be granted eventually.

As for what would happen to SCH? Knowing SE, their ACN kit would be replaced with another that is different but familiar. Either they or SMN would get new casting animations. Spell cost and potencies very likely to be tweaked. Fairy buffing abilities might be added. Either SMN or SCH would lose aetherflow, which will totally change the way the job is played. The possibilities are quite vast.

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From this, we can spend it on 1-2 abilities of the appropriate kind. Say you filled up the Black side, well, then you could spend it all on a single target nuke or aoe dot. Fill up the White and you can spend it a heal nuke or aoe regen. This could even be on long cd's, or the bar could take awhile to fill up, but either way, you are rewarded for being efficient with your time and most definitely defining a style of healing for us.

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So divorce SCH from SMN, and remarry with RDM?

Another possible addition that us SCHs have been dying for is fairy glamours. While the ACN class doesn't need to go away for this to happen, I have a feeling that this addition will only come after it does.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Doing away with the classes would be the most ideal opportunity for the dev team to 'divorce' the two jobs. As a matter of fact, they would accomplish it through pure happenstance if they did that. I know it's in their agenda, so I think your wish will be granted eventually.

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I for one really do not want the classes to go away.
I like the classes, and I wish they had continued with the cross-class skill system. The class quests and related lore is also something I want to stay.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

I for one really do not want the classes to go away.
I like the classes, and I wish they had continued with the cross-class skill system. The class quests and related lore is also something I want to stay.

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I like them too. I do play SMN, but don't take it into any serious content. The fact that I can't level SCH to a high level, and turn around and be just as proficient with SMN without ever touching it tells me that the two jobs are indeed diverse, and I really don't see a problem with either of them as far as being linked to the same class.

I find it really interesting that one school of magic branches into two different jobs. A friend of mine in my FC started around the same time I did, and also chose ACN as her starting class. She went the SMN route, and I went SCH. It reminded me so much of being in the same class with someone all through grade school, becoming really good friends, and then having to part ways because different schools are chosen to take on our advanced subjects of interest. It is so cool that we continue to relate to each other when we reflect on our ACN days, but also can talk about our different experiences adventuring as our chosen jobs. She tells me about her 5-figure death flares, and I tell her Indom rules all^^

I honestly hope they never do away with classes.

Considering SCH is the only healer that isn't complaining all the time on forum, has a strong idendity and the most unique mechanic (when it comes to healing) whereas SMN keep complaining about how clunky the job is, how it is neither a true summoner (altough it's getting there imo) nor the Dot class it used to be. If I had to bet on one job loosing the etjerflux after a complete rework I'd go for SMN

Also, while I wish they d definitely split SCH from SMN, beside a few spells they don't share much anymore

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Originally Posted by Furious

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But at level 30 - 70 how would his work from level 30? Would they be effciant just at higher level and just as effciant at level 30? Running high level raids ? I dont see it full picture .

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

I for one really do not want the classes to go away.
I like the classes, and I wish they had continued with the cross-class skill system. The class quests and related lore is also something I want to stay.

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Most likely the guilds and quests and lore and stuff would still exist, you'd still be say a conjurer, but really only in name. It's just having Scholar and Summoner tied together is really crippling the design for both of them. Quests for the two could still go through the ACN guild but you'd have different rewards maybe?

They did say they were going to get rid of classes and only keep jobs for this very reason. They set the first half of the coding up for stormblood and will probably finish it up in the next expansion (they said that was their goal). So SMN and SCH will no longer be leveled together as they are now and will be distinct. ACN MRD LAN ARC GLA THM CNJ etc.. will all become jobs at that point and classes will be no longer.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

They did say they were going to get rid of classes and only keep jobs for this very reason. They set the first half of the coding up for stormblood and will probably finish it up in the next expansion (they said that was their goal). So SMN and SCH will no longer be leveled together as they are now and will be distinct. ACN MRD LAN ARC GLA THM CNJ etc.. will all become jobs at that point and classes will be no longer.

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I really hope they change their minds about this, because I think this is a terrible idea.

Why would this be a terrible idea? Only the Arc split into two jobs. Technically speaking all the other class/job are a single class which discover a über version of themselves at lv 30.

SCH and SMN now share so little, it wouldn't be hard at all to split SCH from the ARC chain quest (or the opposite)

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

Why would this be a terrible idea? Only the Arc split into two jobs. Technically speaking all the other class/job are a single class which discover a über version of themselves at lv 30.

SCH and SMN now share so little, it wouldn't be hard at all to split SCH from the ARC chain quest (or the opposite)

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(ARC = Archer. Arcanist = ACN)

Nearly all the jobs are lost or rare knowledge. Not just anyone can belong to one of them - certainly not an unknown adventurer just setting out, like we are at the start. Losing the classes would thus make things really weird lore-wise.
Mechanically it would make little difference to lose the classes - and thus pointless doing it. (Except possibly for the ACN/SCH/SMN mess)
Lorewise it would be a major difference - and not a sensible one.

I think SCH and SMN are fine the way they are.
I would preffer a entire new Job than a rework to ACN.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

(ARC = Archer. Arcanist = ACN)

Nearly all the jobs are lost or rare knowledge. Not just anyone can belong to one of them - certainly not an unknown adventurer just setting out, like we are at the start. Losing the classes would thus make things really weird lore-wise.
Mechanically it would make little difference to lose the classes - and thus pointless doing it. (Except possibly for the ACN/SCH/SMN mess)
Lorewise it would be a major difference - and not a sensible one.

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Which is why I highly doubt they're going to axe all that work they've already done for the existing class's guilds. They may add a new line focused for either SCH or SMN to the ACN guild but otherwise I think those stories will stay there.