The Good and the Bad of DRK

Good things:

Dps seems closer in line with that of the group damage dealers

Able to regain aggro control of groups even when mana is at 0 and blood price is on cd which was virtually impossible in HW or a least very difficult

Gets a new shield that absorbs 20% health so HP scaling is a variable here

The change to how darkside worked is overall a good thing. Less stressful gameplay

Self Healing is objectively stronger and scales with damage. Spamming Dark Arts on the Soul Eater Combo now grants 4k+ hp

Still the kings of aoe. In the long term spamming both Abyssal Drain and Quietus seems a lot more consistent than HW maybe even more in total

Bad Things

We lost 4 OGCD skills and gained 2

Dark passenger: Useless for the cost

Rip Blood Price: It should still be used at all times it's up

Our defensive cds were significantly gimped. We have to be the weakest defensively by far

More planning involved in use of gauges/mana

What I think is the most significant:
Syphon strike giving more mana in grit is a very nice change, no way about it, it's a great addition.
The Blackest Night is great when you know the damage is coming, really allows for skillful play.
Darkside's mana changes, even without the damage increase, is absolutely amazing.

My bad:
Dark passenger. Why? Just.. Why?
Defensive cooldowns outside of TBN makes me a sad panda.
Enmity and the well known VIT > STR issues.
Bloodspiller kind of sucks due to GCD and no extra utility from damage. Carve and Spit is better.
No more parry low blows.

The neutral:
I actually don't mind the blood price changes because of the changes to dark side. You'll usually be fine for enmity after throwing out 4-6 abyssal drains and probably a quietus. Getting a syphon strike or two in there isn't too bad, the change allows more control. I do prefer the old BP by a long shot of course.

I disagree with your 6th line because of your 9th: with the Blood Price gimp, I found the old AoE without quietus and more AD more consistent. Stopping to use SS to regain MP sucks.

Dark Passenger is just bad. BAD BAD BAD now. All because they did not want people using it as a ST oGCD.

And Unleash: Why? This makes L50 sync dungeons PAINFUL.

Yeah but stopping for SS gives us 1-2 more drains each time which is powerful IMO. That makes it hard for us to lose aggro. Which is why I think our aoe is more consistent because we're able to refresh it so easily. Whereas before we were at the mercy of blood price and a much weaker siphon soul + the mana tax from darkside

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nova_Leon

Yeah but stopping for SS gives us 1-2 more drains each time which is powerful IMO. That makes it hard for us to lose aggro. Which is why I think our aoe is more consistent because we're able to refresh it so easily. Whereas before we were at the mercy of blood price and a much weaker siphon soul + the mana tax from darkside

---

Just a small tidbit to note: 2 AD = more MP than SS can restore. But 1 AD + 1 unleash = the same MP that SS can restore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalocin

What I think is the most significant:
Syphon strike giving more mana in grit is a very nice change, no way about it, it's a great addition.
The Blackest Night is great when you know the damage is coming, really allows for skillful play.
Darkside's mana changes, even without the damage increase, is absolutely amazing.

My bad:
Dark passenger. Why? Just.. Why?
Defensive cooldowns outside of TBN makes me a sad panda.
Enmity and the well known VIT > STR issues.
Bloodspiller kind of sucks due to GCD and no extra utility from damage. Carve and Spit is better.
No more parry low blows.

The neutral:
I actually don't mind the blood price changes because of the changes to dark side. You'll usually be fine for enmity after throwing out 4-6 abyssal drains and probably a quietus. Getting a syphon strike or two in there isn't too bad, the change allows more control. I do prefer the old BP by a long shot of course.

---

You missed out the no more parry reprisal too :(

When should I use Dark passenger now? do i just use it whenever now or just ignore it for single targets?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

When should I use Dark passenger now? do i just use it whenever now or just ignore it for single targets?

---

Huge pulls. The cost is excessive, but given that everything seems to hit much harder comparatively and us having less CDs to deal with that, the Blind is a life saver.
The doubled cost and lowered damage makes it worthless in pretty much any other situation.

Even used in a big pull, that will be a DPS loss. DA-DP is 240 and cost the same mp as 4 AD (480 potency).

Without DA, it is 100 potency and cost as much as 2 AD.

Since it is oGCD I only use it if it looks like the boss/mob will die before I run out of mp.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

When should I use Dark passenger now? do i just use it whenever now or just ignore it for single targets?

---

If you're at nearly 100 percent mana I would weave it in between two abyssal drains. Otherwise it's better to stick to using abyssal drain because that gets more value for the mana cost. Dark Passenger in it's current condition is quite poor and I don't think anyone would blame you if you took it off the skill hot bar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nova_Leon

Able to regain aggro control of groups even when mana is at 0 and blood price is on cd which was virtually impossible in HW or a least very difficult

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nova_Leon

The change to how darkside worked is overall a good thing. Less stressful gameplay

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nova_Leon

Yeah but stopping for SS gives us 1-2 more drains each time which is powerful IMO. That makes it hard for us to lose aggro. Which is why I think our aoe is more consistent because we're able to refresh it so easily. Whereas before we were at the mercy of blood price and a much weaker siphon soul + the mana tax from darkside

---

I don't really mean to be offensive or anything. But I feel it needs to be said... If you were having trouble maintaining aggro at all times, managing your MP well, and felt stressed out by how Darkside use to work in HW then you were probably a rather inexperienced/unskilled Dark Knight. Since back in HW you really should never have had any trouble managing aggro or managing your MP if you had been playing it a lot. Because those were pretty much mistakes that only inexperienced rookie Dark Knights who are still new to the job make.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vallamaria

I don't really mean to be offensive or anything. But I feel it needs to be said... If you were having trouble maintaining aggro at all times, managing your MP well, and felt stressed out by how Darkside use to work in HW then you were probably a rather inexperienced/unskilled Dark Knight. Since back in HW you really should never have had any trouble managing aggro or managing your MP if you had been playing it a lot. Because those were pretty much mistakes that only inexperienced rookie Dark Knights who are still new to the job make.

---

Not necessarily untrue. But everyone makes mistakes. I once had a paladin tell me they have never lost aggro in their lives. That is great that such flawless human beings exist. But I mained DRK in HW and I made mistakes. I may not have tanked dungeons as much as I shouldve but reducing the floor is a good thing as long as it doesn't lower the ceiling as well IMO

And I'll admit. Even when I did it well the whole thing felt clunky to me. So of course I am biased

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Falar

Even used in a big pull, that will be a DPS loss. DA-DP is 240 and cost the same mp as 4 AD (480 potency).

---

The question is, does the breathing room you give your healer compensate for that personal loss?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EusisLandale

The question is, does the breathing room you give your healer compensate for that personal loss?

---

I have not really tried any "hero" pulls (wall to wall) in 4.0. With taking away DA-DD and gimping Blood Price and Dark Passenger I have not even attempted pulls like I used to.

That being said, you will always burn down the mob faster with AD now and the damage/mp cost of Dark Passenger makes it the worst skill in our arsenal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nova_Leon

Our defensive cds were significantly gimped. We have to be the weakest defensively by far

---

shadowskin, shadow wall, dark mind, Living dead were fine for 2 yrs of Heavensward.

Why wouldn't those + the blackest night all of a sudden not be enough anymore?

We didn't get gimped here.

Unless we talk dungeon trash pulls. but most ppl complained about the eva+ of DA dark dance anyway, as it didn't synergize with blood price well.

Initial thoughts are somewhat positive.

Useless fluff seems to be trimmed. Scrouge will be missed, and bloodspiller doesn't make up for the potency loss on paper but I'll have to wait and see.
Quietus seems pointless, but i suppose having a non-mp based aoe attack is nice. Sadly it's potential is diminished by 4.0's greatest boon to dark knight.
Syphon's changes are wonderful, being able to take advantage of increased MP gain in grit for more DA is fantastic. It seems at level 60 at least, stance dancing is somewhat viable to take advantage of both price and weapon.
It still seems pointless to have unmend, unleash, and drain...especially with unleash's half potency. Unmend is still somewhat decent for initiating a mob pull, but drain is just better than both of them.
passenger is worthless outside of pulls greater than 3 for it's cost. and using arts on it seems wasteful when you could just blackest or delerium.
Delerium needs a shorter CD. like 60-90 seconds, or lower the blood cost. it takes way too long to get off CD for a high cost ability.

And darkside no longer guzzles mp like a russian in a vodka distillery. that's pretty great.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

shadowskin, shadow wall, dark mind, Living dead were fine for 2 yrs of Heavensward.

Why wouldn't those + the blackest night all of a sudden not be enough anymore?

We didn't get gimped here.

Unless we talk dungeon trash pulls. but most ppl complained about the eva+ of DA dark dance anyway, as it didn't synergize with blood price well.

---

That complaining was stupid, because blood price didn't last forever.

Use Shadow Wall/Skin during blood price

Then DA-DD DA-DP when its over and laugh at all the missing.

Dark Passenger is still a great skill when you're pulling 6+ mobs, but as a defensive cooldown. The mana cost is so high that it will basically be a DPS loss in any conceivable circumstance, but it helps enable hero pulls long enough to solidify your drain tank with Abyssal Drain. You should never cast it without DA though, it's just pointless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nova_Leon

Our defensive cds were significantly gimped. We have to be the weakest defensively by far

---

... you are joking right? like... seriously ? gimped? shadowall is the same, rampart is the same as shadowskin, we still have dark mind, reprisal is 5% on demand instead of "whenever parry doesnt hate me" which helps a lot during AoEs for the healers, and lets not forget that we have an effective 20% shield from TBN every 15 seconds wich doubles as an offensive tool as it gives 50 bloodgauge (the dps loss is ... neglible compared to your healers being able to squish 1 more of their offensive skills). did i also mention that you can use TBN as off tank on the MT? for aditional mitigation that is converted into a bloodspiller? still fail to see how our defensive CDs were "gimped" when they are literally the same, unless you talking of dark dance wich... was extremly gimicky and un noticeable most times(DA dark dance was hardly useful really... too situational)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

Unless we talk dungeon trash pulls. but most ppl complained about the eva+ of DA dark dance anyway, as it didn't synergize with blood price well.

---

Tripping hazards like these were what I liked about DRK. It's not like like you can activate two skills and they magicaly synergize well together. If everything works well together with now effort, that's what I call boring.

I liked how I had to use a damage mitigation with blood Price first until I had stable aggro and full MP and then decreased incomming dmg with Dark Passanger and Dark Dance while slowly regaining with SS-Combo.

That was that fun about DRK...which is gone now.

Return shadowskin to us. PLD now is king. Has most mitigation and can even block magic attacks.

DRK defensive kit needs to be reviewed and adjusted, hopefully adjustments to WAR and DRK come before 4.1

I don't see how people think DDance was situational, when it's essentially a flat 20% damage reduction for any boss that uses physical attacks in addition to the parry rate. Yes, TBN is great and I love that skill as much as I thought I would, but we lost a 30 second CD Reprisal and a short 60 second CD that allows us to handle large mobs groups while still retaining usefulness for boss fights. Not to mention the cross class abilities like Blood Bath, and Foresight. DRK have lost their ability to mitigate damage as a whole.