Are healers meant to be gods in PvP?

I just tried 4v4, went in as Ninja, practiced the best burst damage i can ever do, Proceeded to attack the healer for the next 10 minutes, but he barely gets below half HP, what gives?

Healers have always been powerful in PvP; however, it is more noticeable now. Out of curiosity, which healing job was it?

The last one i fought was Scholar, the one before was White Mage, White Mage seemed easier, but maybe that depends on the healer him self.

It's always been hard to solo a healer. You have to combine stun locking with bursting with your partner. They took away the tank stun, so now you have to rely on coordinating burst. It's very difficult to take a skilled PvP healer down.

Eh, well whatever, i didn't think it'd be this bad, what i thought was something like this

Attack the healer, eventually he'll run outta MP, then he'll die if his team mates don't protect him or kill our healer first.

I'll just put 4v4 a side for now until they decide to turn off demi god mode for healers.

Surprisingly enough, you need to do this thing called teamwork in this team based mode. Healers, and their teammates, can be killed in practically two seconds if you coordinate bursts properly on a target. Especially with the new PvP changes where healers do not have as many tools to defend themselves as before. As a healer main I can't believe people are still complaining that they can't kill healers. It's easier than it ever was before.

Healers are far from being god, a simple coordination of burst is enough to put lots of pressure on them or to kill them. It's also way harder now to heal more than 1 target getting burst at once. A good healer will never be able to carry a match if their DPS aren't doing well.

Thanks everyone, this thread is over, i only wanted to know if healers are meant to be invincible to dps unless we get serious coordination going on, which is non existent in a solo queue , now i know that's true, and so 4v4 is not for me at all.

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Originally Posted by Korihu

Surprisingly enough, you need to do this thing called teamwork in this team based mode. Healers, and their teammates, can be killed in practically two seconds if you coordinate bursts properly on a target. Especially with the new PvP changes where healers do not have as many tools to defend themselves as before. As a healer main I can't believe people are still complaining that they can't kill healers. It's easier than it ever was before.

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What teamwork did the healer do exactly other than spamming heals on him self? hmm do tell please.

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Originally Posted by Moxas

What teamwork did the healer do exactly other than spamming heals on him self? hmm do tell please.

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Well, the stripped out healers' survivability skills for the most part, so it makes sense... wouldn't be playable if any DPS looking at you funny could just off you in 2 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Well, the stripped out healers' survivability skills for the most part, so it makes sense... wouldn't be playable if any DPS looking at you funny could just off you in 2 seconds.

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You're kidding right, i was letting out the best possible damage i could do on this healer who's just been spamming heals on him self which require ZERO teamwork on his part, so as DPS, i'm expected to have voice chat or some crap to be effective while the healer doesn't need to even speak? come on dude, this isn't teamwork you're speaking of, don't tell me i should be working with my team to have a chance at you when you haven't even talked to them once.

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Originally Posted by Moxas

You're kidding right, i was letting out the best possible damage i could do on this healer who's just been spamming heals on him self which require ZERO teamwork on his part, so as DPS, i'm expected to have voice chat or some crap to be effective while the healer doesn't need to even speak? come on dude, this isn't teamwork you're speaking of, don't tell me i should be working with my team when you haven't even talked to them once.

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And to survive such a situation, then the healer would need teamwork, just like you.

You weren't using teamwork either, so why should you be guaranteed a kill? All you have to do is stun, or focus fire a bit, and they're dead without teamwork. But yes you need to do more than spam 3 buttons to kill one. And incidentally, a healer can't heal their team while you're making them heal themself, so... you can still use that situation to kill enemies.

And incidentally... you don't need to get on voice comms. You just need to push 1 quickchat button.

Yeah sure, but the DPS requires team work FIRST to kill the healer

Healers be like, Oh well, you guys do whatever you want, i'll just spam heals on my self until they decide to work together, THEN we'll work together.

SE went about this ALL wrong, they disabled chat, have no voice chat in solo 4v4, Aha! if you think about it now....

DPS needs to work together first to kill the healer!

Solo queue team work is rarer than... a real life phoenix?

And so HEALERS have the advantage since teamwork is so rare and they only need it if by some miracle the other team works togather.

Not really. A lot of people know to focus the healer.

Anyways, this is mostly a byproduct of the game. Compare to say, a class based shooter. There you would have tanks that can actually intercept damage, body block, and so on. DPS with explosive weapons that knock back. All sorts of that kind of area control.

FFXIV is a tab target RPG. No body blocking. No damage interception, with the exception of cover, but that's one class and it's low uptime (ie it's for stopping burst). If DPS could kill a healer so simply, there would be no way for healers to stay alive. SE's old method for letting healers survive was Attunement, Sacred Prism, the PvE oGCDs, and so on. Now all that is gone and... it's simply heal, provided it's only a lone wolf on the healer. But then again, now you only need one well timed stun/silence to put an end to it instead of a full rotation.

You have to consider that the dps on the enemy healer's side also has to coordinate to get a kill versus your team. How do healers have the advantage if they are stuck in a loop anyway if their own DPS doesn't kill anything? It's frustrating sometimes as a healer because you can do the absolute best you can do but still get nowhere/lose because your team doesn't know how to work together.

Unfortunately you'll just have to learn use the chat commands or follow the marks. "Attacking Healer!" or "Attacking Ranged!" or "Attacking Melee!" or "Attacking Tank!", follow what your teammate calls or call it out yourself if you need to. Tanks might also call out "Stopping Healer" which means they are going to aim to CC them so follow up on that.

You should try playing a healer yourself or watch some healers streams to see their perspective. Since they're basically 'demi gods' you should have no problem picking up the role. I swear, everyone that complains about this stuff never thinks to try picking up the role to see just how 'godly' it is. But I'm sure there's gonna be some excuse or another. (or I played one game against some awful dps therefore healers are op)

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Originally Posted by Moxas

Thanks everyone, this thread is over, i only wanted to know if healers are meant to be invincible to dps unless we get serious coordination going on, which is non existent in a solo queue , now i know that's true, and so 4v4 is not for me at all.

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There is actually a lot of coordination going on in Solo. All you need to do is mark a target, and use the quick chat macro to say who you are attacking. At that point it's up to the rest of the team to listen and follow your lead. Some new players won't, but they won't be around for long. Regular PvPers will listen and coordination is definitely there.

When you get a good tank then they will also identify when you are about to get a kill and stun the enemy healer. This sort of play isn't happening too much right now since there are so many new people, but when it does it is a lot of fun.

i have always played healer in pvp, and i actuarly think that healers should be able to suvive every and all 1v1. Not win the fight...but not loose either.

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Originally Posted by Moxas

The last one i fought was Scholar, the one before was White Mage, White Mage seemed easier, but maybe that depends on the healer him self.

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Reason being SCHs are a little OP atm. If you were up against a WHM which made it impossible for you to kill him was because he was a good WHM, however, for SCH, its kit is made to make it impossible for you to kill him. A tip to deal with a SCH though is to burst him WHILE the other DPS is bursting someone else. SCHs will spam Adlo & drain their mp quite rapidly.

With all this said though, it all falls down to how good your team is. If you have shitty teammates, your opponents will seems godly.

Pvp is horribly imbalanced , but at least they patch it regularly which shows they understand there is a problem. In Square-Enix last foray into MMO gaming you would be dead in one shot by a ranger regardless who you were. As for team play in solo not existing tell that to the swarm of gnats that downed me every time i took the field last match lol.

The OP should realize that this is preseason and a lot of the regular PVPers are not playing, you are highly likely to encounter people that do not pull their own weight and therefore healers may seem to be very hard to kill.

But that also brings up the question of whether or not OP is doing their best too. Guy comes in here with no idea that teamwork is a thing in 4v4 (Wow?) which probably means they weren't looking to work with their teammates either and also probably hasn't done much Feast in the past anyway. Anyway I highly doubt this person was playing perfectly when they apparently just started to try out Feast.

Is this a troll? Healers are literally the weakest now than they've ever been.

Sorry to say, but you're probably not burst as hard as you think you are.

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Originally Posted by Korihu

As a healer main I can't believe people are still complaining that they can't kill healers. It's easier than it ever was before.

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Well, that is a complete lie. My FC all do pvp, and have done pvp since it came out in ARR, and we have tested it in 1v1 duels, healers win every time. I used to get killed before with good stuns and burst from the dps, but that isn't the case now. A whm can put regen on themself and then dps down the dps. Schs win in 1v1s against other healers with their broil. It's harder in fls to keep other players as well as yourself alive now, but a healer focusing themself is stronger than it ever was before.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

and we have tested it in 1v1 duels, healers win every time.

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lol 1v1 duels. are you kidding. you don't balance based off of duels, if 1 player could kill a healer solo then you'd have 20+ deaths in every feast match.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

lol 1v1 duels. are you kidding. you don't balance based off of duels, if 1 player could kill a healer solo then you'd have 20+ deaths in every feast match.

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And that's exactly why SE didn't want to implement 1v1 duels in the first place. People then complain about solo balance when the game's really not designed around it.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

lol 1v1 duels. are you kidding. you don't balance based off of duels, if 1 player could kill a healer solo then you'd have 20+ deaths in every feast match.

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Bard and mch burst before. Or long drawn out battles in which the healer runs out of mp. Heck, blms with all their buffs up could nuke a healer quickly if healers didn't LoS. Now healers do enough damage that they can easily kill the dps off before mana is a problem. Melee lbs have also been nerfed. Remember when that would one-shot a healer if they didn't have vit acc?

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Bard and mch burst before. Or long drawn out battles in which the healer runs out of mp. Heck, blms with all their buffs up could nuke a healer quickly if healers didn't LoS. Now healers do enough damage that they can easily kill the dps off before mana is a problem. Melee lbs have also been nerfed. Remember when that would one-shot a healer if they didn't have vit acc?

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Bad healers maybe. Any decent healer would never die in a 1v1.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

Bad healers maybe. Any decent healer would never die in a 1v1.

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This.

10hcar

They probably never dueled as a healer pre-4.0

Probably because it was a waste of time

I dueled a lot pre 4.0. A good ninja I know, Shalua, could very easily solo a healer pre 4.0. Especially before the melee lb nerf. Whenever I was against him in the feast, I had to keep my hp topped up or he would suddenly switch to me, silence my ass, and lb me.
My fiance, Reen, would solo healers as well, as warrior and describes it as pretty easy, and did it to the top rated healers in the feast. He would pop beserk, stormseye, holmgang, fellcleave, stun, to bait the purify, stun again, fellcleave, mercystroke. He says as warrior; me, Gracidia, and rum raisin (because of adloquium shields) were the only ones he couldnt solo kill that way

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

Is this a troll? Healers are literally the weakest now than they've ever been.

Sorry to say, but you're probably not burst as hard as you think you are.

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Dps have had their CC neutered, even if they do burst, they now don't have the CC to secure the kill.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

... He would pop beserk, stormseye, holmgang, fellcleave, stun, to bait the purify, stun again, fellcleave, mercystroke. ...

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Everyone makes mistakes, can have a bad day etc., but a really good healer at the top of their game wouldn't fall for this pre 4.0.

Burst? Stun-Lock? Its all gone now.

Healers are now much harder to kill, nearly impossible alone. A Healer can now so some damage. In 1 vs 1, Healers and Darkknights are impossible to kill. Before 4.0, a good MCH can burst a Healer alone. That changed. Healers are even more Stromversorgung, while MCH is completely useless.

I don't want to play a team-based PVP mode where being able to solo healers is normal for DPS, even if they aren't paying attention to what their teammates are doing or playing tactically. It's really not that hard to coordinate attacks to overwhelm them, rather than just having healers as free kills where there's no tactical value in not killing them right away. I've not had any trouble killing healers when I've been in Feast on my caster jobs. In fact, I've been killing quite a few enemy healers as WHM in FL. With my team, of course.

We lost a lot of things too, like cleanses, AoE abilities and proper buffs. Everyone has been whittled down to fewer skills. But the game isn't based on 1v1.

Healers are generally meant to be able to survive a long time or indefinitely against 1 DPS if both players are of equal skill. If they couldn't even do that, you wouldn't have a ton of reason for a healer. A design of requiring 2-3 coordinating to kill one usually works best and from my experience, two DPS players coordinating can kill a healer easily. I already get /super/ close on my dragoon to soloing healers down, I'm just missing any form of CC to make it happen.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Whenever I was against him in the feast,

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Ya in Feast, where it isn't 1v1

Anyways, if in a duel you end up dying as a healer you are either unsynced and undergeared or you just don't know what you are doing. Sorry to say

healer can't survive long if all the group burst him, no emergency skill for this case, like attune was.
,about solo a healer,it should not be easy

Scholar are super op in pvp atm.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

Burst? Stun-Lock? Its all gone now.

Healers are now much harder to kill, nearly impossible alone. A Healer can now so some damage. In 1 vs 1, Healers and Darkknights are impossible to kill. Before 4.0, a good MCH can burst a Healer alone. That changed. Healers are even more Stromversorgung, while MCH is completely useless.

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