Hello I am going to be switching to ether WHM or AST since SCH is currently painfully boring to play. But before i do i would like to hear the opinions of those that play these classes on the changes they got in Stormblood.
The main things I'd like to know are...
Is AST as overpowered as people claim and is WHM as as bad as people claim? Just looking at the forums seems like the AST is the only healer worth anything but I'd like to hear peoples thoughts now that its been a week since launch.
WHM or AST?
Printable View
-
06-24-2017, 10:26 PMspf1200WHM or AST?
-
06-24-2017, 10:34 PMReiryuu
Depends. WHM is not "bad" it's just extremely boring (IMHO) and the lily system is kinda clunky and not very satisfying and PI is utter crap. WHM is functional the way white rice will keep you from going hungry. It's not very exciting unless you're one who really likes to spam holy with Thin Air and PoM up. For me it was more a meh, it's kinda fun but... it seems like this skill should be used for better purposes.
AST has been a lot of fun. I'm only 64 at the moment, but from the spell effects to the cards to the flexibility between sects it's a heck of a lot of fun. Earthly Star is a really nice tool and I use it just about every chance I get it gives me the confidence that I have an instant, very potent heal available just about whenever I need it when I pop it down at the beginning of a fight, and by the time it goes off usually a mob or two are down and the tank's not taking as much of a beating so the security blanket isn't as necessary. If you party is familiar with the spell, most of the time I've found wounded members will jump into the AoE (even RDMs!) when it's ready to pop. -
06-24-2017, 10:42 PMKabzy
I levelled SCH to 70 first and then got WHM to 70. It's so much more fun. I disagree with Rei completely that it feels clunky. WHM feels super fluid and I also don't mind the Cleric Stance change on that job. Managing Lilies for Divine Benison, as well as getting RNG procs for Plenary Indulgence keep the job interesting as they both allow you to find more windows to continue DPSing. Which I would assume is something you enjoy if you used to play SCH.
On the other hand I found AST (though it's not 70 yet) to be quite boring. They only have one DoT and one nuke. Their gauge also happens to just be for UI purposes, whereas the WHM one actually forces you to make decisions on your resources. But play both and see which you like more, as it comes down to your playstyle in the end. -
06-24-2017, 10:43 PMRisvertasashi
70 AST + WHM here. WHM largely plays like in Heavensward, so if you're familiar with that... not much has changed.
If you want a busy job, I would definitely suggest AST. Whether or not you consider its heals OP... the fact that it has the card system just means there's more to do. Earthly Star is also very rewarding when you anticipate stack/party damage and set it up properly. The other side of this coin is WHM definitely has more as far as personal DPS is concerned; working out a rhythm of Lucid Dreaming, PoM+Thin Air and so on to mow down dungeon packs can be pretty satisfying... and the death of cleric stance means it's all very fluid too.
Pro tip: To be a good WHM, you should be ignoring that gauge. Use your CDs because it makes sense to use them at a certain time, not because you do or don't have lilies, the return isn't worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabzy
-
06-24-2017, 11:27 PMRivxkobeYour post makes no sense at all. How is WHM fluid at all with these RNG mechanics? Hint: it's not. What you do should never be decided on by if you get a Lily or Confession stack. What you do should be what is best for the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabzy
Also lol @ WHM actually having to make decisions compared to AST. -
06-24-2017, 11:55 PMMoroMurasaki
WHM is far from fluid but it is quite fun to play. If you start lookong at lillies as a bonus then Stormblood WHM is similar to HW WHM but with Thin Air (all spells are 0 mp for 12 secs) but the mana feels SO much more sustainable.
Also I'd argue with the huge DPS potency disparity between WHM and AST per GCD that WHM has benefited most from the removal of traditional Cleric Stance. You probably didn't feel it as much as a scholar because Selene/Eos but as a WHM being able to throw out a quick Cure 2 if things get bad in the middle of your Holy spam is so enjoyable.
Ultimaely WHM is still just a DPS heavy AST without the cards so of course in endgame people will prefer AST but if you do a lot of 4man stuff that's where WHM really shines.
Also Benediction, hot damn Bene. The reduced cooldown makes it like an accessible thing now which I feel like doesn't get said enough. Tank at under 5%? Not anymore! Lol -
06-25-2017, 12:10 AMspf1200
Thx for the feedback guys. Think i'll be trying WHM just ran a lvl 50 as AST and found the card rng really annoying. Here is hoping that SCH gets fix in the future though still like they idea behide the class, but how it is right now it just seems bad
-
06-25-2017, 12:20 AMLegoTechnic
Honestly I find WHM and SCH play pretty similar now, so I would actually recommend AST just because the cards are a constant distraction that steal your attention, though if you don't like that then go WHM. You can even do a Cure II -> Divine Benison anytime you miss throwing out an adlo.
-
06-25-2017, 03:48 AMAverax
WHM is the safety blanket healer, with a wide variety tools in their kit to respond efficiently to myriad situations. They can do the most damage on their own (and squeeze in more damage in duties thanks to the Holy stun acting as damage mitigation)
AST is the utilitarian healer, their healing kit is more basic, but as a whole they are well rounded and designed to fit in where needed, as well as support the party via buffs. They do the least damage on their own.
SCH is the tactical healer, they have many tools, but they are more designed to act before the damage happens, rather than react to it. Not to say they can't efficiently react. Their fairy can support the group or offer more healing, depending on what's needed. They do average damage on their own.
Personally, i prefer AST because of how it can fit what the group needs. Unlike a 2 WHM comp where you're without any form of effctive sheilding, or a 2 SCH comp where you're overwriting each other's barriers constantly. An AST will never have this problem, and if you do get a 2 AST comp and you coordinate your cards, you can squeeze out the most buff uptime. -
06-25-2017, 03:59 AMJoe777
If I'm healing I main WHM, but I'd rather have Stoneskin over Divine Benison any day.
-
06-25-2017, 04:00 AMLevy9Let's say I happen to have three lilies and the tank is down to about 70% health. Regen is already ticking but the mobs are hitting hard. I've decided that I want to top off the tank and apply Asylum to give myself more time to DPS. Let's say I don't take lilies into account. I could top off the tank with Cure II, then cast Asylum. I'd have zero lilies afterwards since Cure II can't proc a fourth lily and I used it before freeing up space with Asylum. Excellent. Lilies ignored, mission accomplished. However, should I notice my full lily meter, I would cast Asylum first, then top off the tank with Cure II. I'd gain one lily from that (proper) sequencing of abilities. Why is that one lily important? Because I'd then have the prerequisite requirements for Divine Benison, which I could immediately cast to give myself even more time to DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
-
06-25-2017, 05:19 AMAyer2015
I don't understand all the hate on lilies. I'm only 67 on WHM currently but I enjoy the mechanic.
Since everyone is planning to run AST now, I think I'll main WHM for 4.x. -
06-25-2017, 05:29 AMVerdan
The only downside to ast now is that they're garbage solo cause they do less damage than everyone else.
Just wait, though, I bet that'll change. -
06-25-2017, 12:39 PMRisvertasashiWhy would you change the sequence of your abilities when you don't have lilies?Quote:
Originally Posted by Levy9
-
06-25-2017, 03:11 PMExiled_Tonberry
Level 70 WHM here. I will say this, despite everything wrong with the job, despite it feels tremendously weaker and less engaging than AST, it is wui fun.
Holy spam is better than ever, Assize feels very powerful with a huge radius centered in you, and their DPS capability is outstanding.
Now, if you're not the type to take advantage of healer DPS, WHM is going to be insanely boring. Lilies is disappointing, Plenary Indulgence is hellishly broken (in a bad way), so you'll mostly sit there casting Cure II over and over. They have nothing outside of DPS, so ask yourself this:
Do you want to focus on damage and healing, or do you want to focus more on support and healing? -
06-25-2017, 03:26 PMReiryuuYou and I must be having super different experiences in the 70+ game. Before I decided to throw in the towel due to boredom, I could barely get a holy off before I had to spam the tank with cures. Oddly enough, it was only on bosses when I'd have a bit of respite to do cast some damaging spells aside from the odd holy or Aero III and Assize of course. I used to run my MP ragged casting holy and doing damage in HW. Now most of my MP goes into cure spam =/Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
-
06-25-2017, 03:42 PMExiled_TonberryHmm, perhaps it's the tanks you've healed for? For me, I'm fine with tossing them a Regen and going straight to Swiftcast holy, Assize, holy 6 times, Benediction, and then it is, indeed, cure spam. That's mostly an issue with our current gear though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiryuu
Don't get me wrong though, there is a serious problem with WHM. Even I'm getting my Monk to 70 so I can drop WHM. -
06-25-2017, 04:24 PMKabzy1) Some people just love to complain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayer2015
2) Some people are unable to adapt.
3) Some people's idea of balance: "If my job isn't overpowered, FEED ME BUFFS." -
06-25-2017, 04:45 PMRisvertasashi
Or maybe, I don't know, it's a poorly designed, low impact system tacked onto the job -- and lots of people agree with that assessment.
Did you think Wanderer's Minuet was the pinnacle of game design too? -
06-25-2017, 06:58 PMReiryuu1) Not everyone is easily amused and like to look at the pretty flowers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabzy
2) Some people like to use Medica, Medica II and Regen as opposed to just Cure I and Cure II.
3) Some people realize how little of an improvement over Stoneskin Divine Benison really is for the restrictions of its use.
4) Some people actually want spells they can, you know, actually use reliably unlike Plenary Indulgence.
5) Some people were hoping for more variety and not less.
Joke ) Not all people are into Yuri. -
06-25-2017, 09:36 PMFeidam
I'd like to point out that my in game experience does not reflect the opinions that posters are espousing on the board here. There seem to be way more whm's than there were in HW and they seem to love the job when you speak to them. Me I still prefer my scholar for healing and so far have had zero issues. The dps skills seem to play out almost the same for the healers. So if that is why you leaving the scholar I would heavily consider the healing style you prefer as that is the real difference. If you got pure dps the whm is a bit more satisfying with their spells. Assize is a welcome addition imo.
-
06-25-2017, 10:40 PMChyro
Yes, lillies don't add much.
But you can play just as fluidly and fine without them.
No need to completely ignore them, but you can make use of them whenever you have them.
No need to focus on cure and cure 2 just to stack them, use whichever spells fit the situation. The cures do get their use either way, and any lilly is a free little bonus - how unnoticable it may be.
Not 70 yet, so didn't get to play with PI yet. But I assume it's pretty much the same - a ocd extra heal you can situationally use. A little bonus, but nothing you need to focus on and can also do without it.
I guess all the complaints come from people that wanted something better for stormblood Whitemage. Sure, the new things aren't great game changers. But nothing of it is a negative or a nerf. It doesn't hinder your healing. The only thing that can hinder you is yourself. -
06-25-2017, 11:24 PMRisvertasashi
Before this gets too off track with balance discussion... if you really want to know what healer balance is shaping up to look like, I think this post offers the most fair analysis: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._game_raiding/
But if you're not planning on raiding... just play whatever seems fun to you. (and maybe even if you do want to raid). For DPS healer, I'd still recommend White Mage. -
06-26-2017, 03:20 AMAyer2015
I've leveled both jobs to 70 now. All of AST's skills felt good; the card system is more engaging now, however dps skills are lacking (1 dot and a weak nuke). WHM is very fun; nearly bottomless MP, easy lilies, good dps. That said, for me, Confession stacks feel lacking given the 20% proc rate.
I'd say, play whatever job you like. Both are good imo.
Next I level SCH to see if the whining is warranted. -
06-26-2017, 03:33 AMExiled_TonberryDon't be ignorant. There are obvious issues with WHM. No one's asking them to be OP, but I've already ran into multiple farm parties with WHM locked because of not bringing any utilityQuote:
Originally Posted by Kabzy
-
06-26-2017, 07:50 AMKabzyI think most players can agree that SCH is in the worst spot right now, so either Mateus is really lacking any good players or you're being dramatic as usual for no reason. Most jobs, bar PLD and AST, have issues right now if you keep comparing them. Alternatively you can refer to my point 2 and learn to adapt. ; )Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
Also maybe shake off a little salt, it's not good for you. -
06-26-2017, 10:51 AMRisvertasashiI'm not so sure I'd agree. A lot of the complaints seem overexaggerated. SCH started out incredibly strong in some areas and was toned down a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabzy
-
06-27-2017, 01:56 AMLosslessNot sure if I agree with your not sure you agree. The level of the complaints feels balanced to me, especially in comparison to the release of HW. There are a few topics that contain outright kneejerk reactions ofc, but most have been mature responses to changes many of us see as detrimental to their job. I don't think it's fair to lump all posters together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
-
06-27-2017, 03:23 AMTridusI've been spending time on all three of them lately. In comparison to the other two, using SCH and trying to make the health bars go up during heavy healing situations feels like trying to fill a bathtub with my preschooler's sippy cup. You *can* do it, but man is it rough when you run out of Aetherflow to use Lustrate and the fairy decides to go heal the wrong person (or itself).Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
They just don't seem to have as good of an answer when by themselves as the other two healers have. In a tandem I think it's less bad, but for dungeon content if you give me the choice of WHM or SCH, I'm picking WHM every time. -
06-30-2017, 03:29 PMSilver-Strider
I haven't tried AST yet and my WHM is only 67 atm but I'm honestly loving WHM.
The class just feels....faster, I guess? While I'm not a fan of RNG, even less on something as important as heals, I do find the Lily mechanic as more a bonus to playing than as something that you should be overly worried about getting to max at all times.
Thin Air is a thing of beauty and I've yet to find an instance in which my MP is on the brink anymore.
Divine Benison isn't as overly reliable as I'd like, considering Stoneskin was always available for tank busters and pre-pull prep, but I'm not against a free oGCD that has a fairly low cooldown period and does grant me a little extra wiggle room on occasion for more DPS/Healing.
I cannot comment on PI yet but I do feel RNG heals have no place in any game and even on paper the skill just upsets me to no end because that's all it appears to be, an RNG heal.