What is the point of playing DPS..

If you're going to have to wait half of your playtime queuing to do anything via duty finder? It was bad before, but now...

Here's hoping they add 2 more dps next expansion.

Lot of people are leveling red mage and samarai right now. It always happens when they release a new DPS job.

You could also make friends with a healer or tank to speed up your que times.

I got warrior to 70 and don't like it. So I am one of the ones bailing on tanks. Leveling a healer now though...hope I can help your queue soon!

Be glad they didn't start at level 30 again.

I wish there was some way DPS could join dungeons together for XP. No, not running PotD until your mind goes numb. Actual ways for DPS to successfully go through dungeons together.

Former DRK, SAM main now. If SE is not capable of creating interesting tank gameplay for fear of losing the terribad potatoes (who will NEVER tank anyway), then hurray more DPS players. My SAM plays about 5 times more interesting than any tank class, AND requires more skill to perform optimally, AND has more influence, AND has more quality of life in solo, AND looks better. So why would I ever play a tank again?

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Originally Posted by Delphinium_Consolida

If you're going to have to wait half of your playtime queuing to do anything via duty finder? It was bad before, but now...

Here's hoping they add 2 more dps next expansion.

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You're implying that I don't have a FC with healers nor tank friends. You may wait, but if all fails, party finder is my friend.

More people should take this as a reason to switch to tank or healer ;)

Get in a helpful FC. In my FC healers and tanks both help out DPS with their q times.

I've primarily been helping my FC members more than anything. I also know a lot of tanks and healers aside from PLDs and AST are reaaallly not happy with some changes, from gutting the job or making it incredibly clunky (As a Dark Knight example of dumb changes, Dark Passenger's mana cost is so high you're better off using abyssal drain twice). I'm also considering leveling a DPS right now just in case no proper balance is put in place and people go pld/pld lol.

The wait isn't that bad. I put on a show on the second monitor and watch that while I am waiting for the queue to pop.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Former DRK, SAM main now. If SE is not capable of creating interesting tank gameplay for fear of losing the terribad potatoes (who will NEVER tank anyway), then hurray more DPS players. My SAM plays about 5 times more interesting than any tank class, AND requires more skill to perform optimally, AND has more influence, AND has more quality of life in solo, AND looks better. So why would I ever play a tank again?

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+1 to this

I tolerated tanking in Heavensward because Warrior felt so smooth and rewarding, but from what I've played thus far, everything I used to enjoy about the role has been completely gutted or nerfed into the floor. This is the least fun tanking has been since ARR launched, and that's a big reason for why you're seeing queues as bad as they are right now, along with the addition of 2 new DPS jobs.

A lot of us are just getting tired of waiting for things to change. It's clear that DPSing is more fun, more rewarding, more engaging, and DPS roles are allowed to have more impact into the quality of their content.

Isn't that enough of an incentive to play something else? Tanks are always needed and healers too to some extent. Join the club of instant queues and unlimited player commendations today!

You can also que up and while waiting:

Craft
Gather
Sight Seeing Log
Unlock Aether Currents (if you haven't already)
Hunting
Fate grind on another job/class
Quest
Gold Saucer events and mini games
Socialize
RP if that's your thing
Play the Market boards

Plenty to do while waiting for ques. /shrug

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Originally Posted by iluvOP

Isn't that enough of an incentive to play something else? Tanks are always needed and healers too to some extent. Join the club of instant queues and unlimited player commendations today!

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I really love being able to count on 2-3 commendations per dungeon. They don't do anything but I have hundreds if not nearly a thousand by this point.

Even with a helpful FC, sometimes they can't stop what they're doing to help me queue for something they get absolutely nothing out of.
What makes this issue worst is the absolute lack of stuff to do while waiting for the queue for someone that don't enjoy crafting/gathering like myself. As a 70 RDM now, waiting for the roulette/dungeons queues to get the tomestones of Verity is ridiculous. Fates are worthless once you're 70, and people ain't doing SB A Marks all the time, and ARR/HW Marks require you to be in a party to get full credit, so I just sit around doing freaking nothing for 30-60 minutes while waiting for the queue. I wish mob grinding was at least an option for leveling (Even if bad compared to others), as FATE grinding solo is pretty bad as well, so I could at least level other jobs while waiting for the queue.
Also, played DRK for HW, but the changes made it super boring for me, and honestly can't bother leveling PLD (Mine is level 22), which appears to be in a good spot. And I honestly can't play healers in any game, so... Yeah, Most of my game time now is spent watching anime while I wait for queues...

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

I really love being able to count on 2-3 commendations per dungeon. They don't do anything but I have hundreds if not nearly a thousand by this point.

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Honestly, my experience shows that being an exceptional DPS will get you way more commendations than tanking or healing ever would.

There's always tons of arguments going around about what tanks or healers should be focusing on, and you may often be partied with people who don't appreciate your playstyle. On the other hand, *everybody* appreciates a good DPS. The moment I quit tanking in Duty Finder, my comms skyrocketed, and I know that I'm not a bad tank. I have years of experience, and several different healers to testify to that one.

i do quests explore aether currents fish mine and fate grind while waiting for my DF to pop, so theres stuff to do while you wait.

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

I really love being able to count on 2-3 commendations per dungeon. They don't do anything but I have hundreds if not nearly a thousand by this point.

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I don't give the commendations to tanks or healers actually. I always give them to the dps because we never get enough of them.

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Originally Posted by Pori_Dessu

Also, played DRK for HW, but the changes made it super boring for me, and honestly can't bother leveling PLD (Mine is level 22), which appears to be in a good spot. And I honestly can't play healers in any game, so..

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Did you check what DRK is like at lvl70? New skills should make it pretty interesting. If a class was nerfed or not shouldn't really matter unless you are doing hardcore endgame raiding. Server first clears and savages. Heck, I used a summoner in the coiltower way back when it was deemed to be complete trash, but we managed. Tanks survive if the heals are good enough and if the DPS is good enough (which is half the time isn't because people somehow never learn their rotations).
Every role is responsible for something and no class is so BAD that it wouldn't work.
Also don't be afraid of trying out healers. You can do some SICK DPS and heal. Some scholars out DPS many dedicated DPS roles if they know what they are doing.

I was originally planning to main DRK for SB because I loved it in HW and wanted to tank more in the future. But then SB dropped, and the fun of tanking went with it, at least for that job. It's mindlessly simple and the changes caused us to have more useless skills now than we did prior. Anything we can do, the other two (or at least PLD) can do better now. The only things we excelled at were mass pulling in dungeons because Blood Price used to be awesome, and mitigating magical damage because HW was basically all magical damage. Other than that, we weren't the best at anything but we were still fun and enjoyable with decent damage output. Now it's just spam Dark Arts on everything and do the same combo over and over. It actually plays a lot like PLD did in 2.0, which is why I switched to DRK in the first place. The bottom line is that the dps options in SB are just better and more engaging than the tank classes. And I hope that SE realizes how much of a problem this is going to be because we already have a lot of former career tanks switching to dps. But it's hard to see how they can improve the situation before 5.0. Here's hoping they pull their heads out of their rears and make tanking fun again.

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Originally Posted by iluvOP

Did you check what DRK is like at lvl70? New skills should make it pretty interesting. If a class was nerfed or not shouldn't really matter unless you are doing hardcore endgame raiding. Server first clears and savages. Heck, I used a summoner in the coiltower way back when it was deemed to be complete trash, but we managed. Tanks survive if the heals are good enough and if the DPS is good enough (which is half the time isn't because people somehow never learn their rotations).
Every role is responsible for something and no class is so BAD that it wouldn't work.
Also don't be afraid of trying out healers. You can do some SICK DPS and heal. Some scholars out DPS many dedicated DPS roles if they know what they are doing.

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I did actually. Tho I haven't leveled mine, a friend let me play on his this week, and... And I honestly think the new skills don't add much in terms of gameplay. From 60 to 70 you get:
- Delirium: Not interesting to use at all, especially since Blood Price is pretty bad and can only be used in Grit now.
- Quietus: Another AoE that you'll rarely use.
- Bloodspiller: A "Finishing Move" that you'll use every now and then.
- The Blackes Night: A shield that gives you Blood Gauge, but it's actually a DPS loss.
The whole Blood Gauge system ended up being pretty uninteresting. Besides, the removal of Scourge (Some DoT management), no more Delirium combo (Now it's just build aggro, repeat Souleater combo a trillion times), and MP management being overly simplified, DRK is just overall dumbed down, with new skills just being situational stuff that you use when you can for... Reasons... I loved DRK in HW, but now, can't stand it.
As for trying out healers, I seriously can't. I never could get into supportive playstyle in any games, as someone very self-centered it's a playstyle I can't adapt to.
PS.: Sorry about the huge post... The DRK topic really gets to me nowadays...

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Originally Posted by Elim

Get in a helpful FC. In my FC healers and tanks both help out DPS with their q times.

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This. In my FC tanks and healers help DPS out with queue times.

A lot of people don't appreciate good Damage Dealers which is wrong. Good damage dealers let you skip multiple phases in extreme boss fights, acknowledge your damage dealers everyone! Give comms to damage dealers who are going out of their way to be the best they can. If you don't do this, your damage dealers will switch to heals or tank because they are not getting recognition for doing a good job(plus it's pretty hard getting the commendation rewards as dps because people don't see them).

There are many times where damage dealers out-perform the tank or the healer in your group. Don't be a sheep and think who is performing the best.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

-Snip-

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It's not that I don't acknowledge them, you are just a dime a dozen. I can find good damage dealers by spinning a circle a pointing in a general direction. Now a good tank who uses his own cooldowns and self-heals that then allows me to DPS more and speed things up?....That is rare.

As for commendation, mine goes to the tank if he doesn't suck. As a healer, the only thing that effects my que time is the tank. He is the reason in tandem with my own choice I get a minute que. He gets the comms.

Also, I don't have ACT (PS4) nor do I care to watch DPS and guess who's doing the most work.

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

I can find good damage dealers by spinning a circle a pointing in a general direction.

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No you can't actually. Really good damage dealers are very rare in this game, very few damage dealers are actually doing 110% that they can do. I'm amazed when I see a damage dealer performing beyond expectations and instantly give them a comm.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

No you can't actually. Really good damage dealers are very rare in this game, very few damage dealers are actually doing 110% that they can do. I'm amazed when I see a damage dealer performing beyond expectations and instantly give them a comm.

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Good players are rare. This is not a role exclusive thing.

Good tanks and healers are easier to spot since their roles are more obvious when they suceed or fail. You can't really tell which DPS is doing well besides giant aggro differences and even then theres aggro reduction skills which they should use.

Parser when?

Playing as a dps has always been bad, when 2.0 launched I remember waiting 30 minutes for a DF to pop also, so this not really new.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

More people should take this as a reason to switch to tank or healer ;)

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Until they get yelled at for some trivial nonsense.

I feel part of the wait may be due to Tanks giving priority to friends, FC, and Link Shell mates. Like I noticed that lately whenever I queue into something, I am with someone and at times 2 other or even a full party. Rarely do I ever solo queue now. This reduces the number of slots that the tank's party has and thus anyone solo queueing is kind of getting leftovers.

So socializing more and getting into those Link Shells and FC's may be more important than ever.

Someone call an ambulance for all these tanks & healers who apparently broke their legs hopping off the bandwagon once they found out they actually have to DO their jobs as intended in Stormblood instead of gawking at their DPS.

The rush to get SAM and/or RDM to 70 will die down soon enough. Party Finder can prove useful, though, as long as a tank or healer joins the group. Duty Finder is pointless otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Someone call an ambulance for all these tanks & healers who apparently broke their legs hopping off the bandwagon once they found out they actually have to DO their jobs as intended in Stormblood instead of gawking at their DPS.

The rush to get SAM and/or RDM to 70 will die down soon enough. Party Finder can prove useful, though, as long as a tank or healer joins the group. Duty Finder is pointless otherwise.

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I'm just going to reply with something I said over in the tank forums earlier tonight.

A lot of people on these forums and on Reddit will just say "Oh why are you so worried about losing so much lifesteal/stancedancing/DPS/aggro generation. You're a TANK. Focus on TANKING."

People don't realize that just sitting in tank stance, mashing your enmity combo is boring as sin, and a lot of 4.0's changes are massively punishing for any tank that tries to do different, or play in the same manner as they did in Heavensward. I truly hope that SE has some really good changes on the horizon in the very near future, because I'm seeing a ton of career tanks just give up and go over to DPSing.

Simply put, DPS roles are more fun, more engaging, more rewarding to optimize, look better, have better impact on their content, and are CLEARLY more favored for attention by the development team. Leveling Samurai alone has been more rewarding than any endgame tanking I've done in years. Why would I ever want to go back to tank, with WAR (my tank of choice) as brutally browbeaten into submission as it has been.

Everything I loved about Heavensward tanking has been nerfed into the floor. All that's left is a shallow, empty, boring husk.

Side note: For years players like me have heard "If you're not a TRUE TANK just go play DPS since it's better for you". Well guess what, that's exactly what we're doing.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Someone call an ambulance for all these tanks & healers who apparently broke their legs hopping off the bandwagon once they found out they actually have to DO their jobs as intended in Stormblood instead of gawking at their DPS.

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1. I didn't stop playing Warrior because of that. I stopped playing because it wasn't fun when they took away a core part of the job's identity: synergy between offense and defense. I'm okay with tank and healers doing less DPS as long as actual damage dealers can do their job.

2. Spamming aggro combo and rotating cooldowns isn't my idea of exciting engaging gameplay. This is what I think when I think exciting engaging gameplay for tanks.

3. Tanks are soon going to have aggro problems due to accessories only giving VIT and only STR giving AP as DPS just get stronger and stronger with accessory upgrades. See comment thread.

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Originally Posted by Delphinium_Consolida

If you're going to have to wait half of your playtime queuing to do anything via duty finder? It was bad before, but now...

Here's hoping they add 2 more dps next expansion.

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sad thing is 90% they will add on dps.one of the reasons they didnt add tank/healer this time is not much new people stated to play them in 3.0 , not much will in 4.0 as well.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Someone call an ambulance for all these tanks & healers who apparently broke their legs hopping off the bandwagon once they found out they actually have to DO their jobs as intended in Stormblood instead of gawking at their DPS.

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I apologize for playing beyond the limitations of roles and providing more to my team then the bare minimum like you.

I'll do my best this time to just sit there and hold my shield up 24/7 so that you, the true hero can beat up the boss while I cower like a frightened child, afraid to do anything outside of my little "tank" comfort zone.

Idk. I love dark knight still and usually when I see someone sitting at a dungeon (usually a DPS) I invite them into the party and we get it done. I only do the dungeons once since I do not see the point in running it anymore for solely leveling gear. I am just getting it out of the way for the quest.

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Originally Posted by iluvOP

Isn't that enough of an incentive to play something else? Tanks are always needed and healers too to some extent. Join the club of instant queues and unlimited player commendations today!

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Feels like I get just as many commendations by playing a DPS optimally as playing a tank optimally. There just seems to be a higher default appreciation that a tank blessed your queue with its presence... An obviously more skilled player may still outshine it though, whatever their role.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Someone call an ambulance for all these tanks & healers who apparently broke their legs hopping off the bandwagon once they found out they actually have to DO their jobs as intended in Stormblood instead of gawking at their DPS.

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You act like there's been an increase in difficulty insofar as holding enmity. At most, some modifiers are simply undertuned and Paladin alone has to consider when to use it higher enmity but nil-damage AoE skill (perhaps a sizable difference to those who figured their only contribution goal as a tank was to hold mobs in place like some mobile shelf). There's been no increase in difficulty. Quite the opposite.

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

You're implying that I don't have a FC with healers nor tank friends. You may wait, but if all fails, party finder is my friend.

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This is one reason why I don't have a FC. In another game I had initially been invited to some guild, and the guild was just inviting people at random, and then it turned out people were joining it just to level, and if you refused them, they left. I didn't want another repeat of that here. I'm choosing to play this game with as little in-game drama as possible. Kick me, and I report the entire party for harassment, because there is absolutely nothing I'm going to say to ask for it. I've also chosen to ignore the Mentoring system, because from that other game, yet again, people would just abuse it to get their experience bonus, and then act like they are entitled to having your constant service afterwords.

If players actually care about completing content, they will make their own sacrifice, either by playing roles they don't normally play, or by forming parties/FC's with like-minded people, not randoms. All randoms ever do is create chaos.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

This is one reason why I don't have a FC. In another game I had initially been invited to some guild, and the guild was just inviting people at random, and then it turned out people were joining it just to level, and if you refused them, they left. I didn't want another repeat of that here. I'm choosing to play this game with as little in-game drama as possible. Kick me, and I report the entire party for harassment, because there is absolutely nothing I'm going to say to ask for it. I've also chosen to ignore the Mentoring system, because from that other game, yet again, people would just abuse it to get their experience bonus, and then act like they are entitled to having your constant service afterwords.

If players actually care about completing content, they will make their own sacrifice, either by playing roles they don't normally play, or by forming parties/FC's with like-minded people, not randoms. All randoms ever do is create chaos.

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The FC I'm in, or rather the one I was previously in, is one that I was randomly invited to. It was sort of a leveling FC, in that the guy running it wanted to focus on helping newbies out. There were definitely a lot of randoms who just joined for buffs, but I think that's just how it goes. Even so, I found a lot of good friends. What happened is we actually branched off into a new FC because we were more endgame focused. But we still keep in touch with our sister FC. I guess what I'm trying to say is if you never join a FC you definitely won't find the right one. I think you have to take risks to gain something worthwhile. I mean, that's how human relationships work, right?

I was in a really large zerg guild in a previous and I think drama and cliques are inevitable with how large they are. Like our guild leader in that game would be in Officer Chat in TS3 for hours because of drama. I like tightly knit bonds and I don't like the whole clique thing, so I sort of prefer a guild/FC that's smaller sized. Which is what I'm in right now.

But I do hope you find a good FC someday. Because there are a lot of awesome people out there. That's one of the nice things about a MMO. Of course that definitely comes with the bad too.

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This forum community is really lame sometimes.