From a design point this game gets some things right and some things totally wrong. They'res some pretty strange things that are finally out and we can now comment on them, speculations that came out true as well as some of the design elements that show a strong understanding of FFXIV's basic combat.
Whats confusing to me is some elements make no advancement to combat depth but have been added regardless while others have made tremendous strides to streamline combat. I've never been so baffled by a developers ability to make some really good decisions and really bad ones all at the same time. So lets get to it!
1. Combo System:
First of I think its safe to say most people love the combo system, It gives meaning to old weapon skills in the game as well as giving players opportunities to do lots of damage in one quick sweep, really fun to notice big chunks of damage coming out of enemies as opposed to slowly chipping away at them like in FFXI.
Element that wasn't thought out:
Yep you guessed it positioning, I think everyone going into this update was weary about this from the first place and yep it makes as little sense as people thought it would. What combat advantage to I gain attacking enemies from the side? Some of it makes sense, like attacking from the rear (so long as they fix the abusable targeting system to make it so even solo you can still back attack, without para/stun/etc), even attacking an enemy thats currently targeting you (GLD), but i don't understand the point of attacking enemies from the side. Who is having trouble moving to the side of an enemy and hitting a button? I feel like SE is insulting my intelligence here, am i supposed to feel proud of myself for remembering to re-position myself before doing an attack? I mean they'res no coordination here what-so-ever on any other party member before i do it.
The only possible argument you can make for such a lazy gimmicky mechanic is it encourages players to practice organized hate management for the sake of,(and get ready for this) BEING ABLE TO ACCOUNT FOR ENEMY AND PLAYER POSITION LAG!
I guess my real point here is for the sake of this games combat enemies only need 2 hemispheres of attack zones, back and front. Just simplify the system and make all the side position weapon skills condition-less since any one solo or organized player need only a lag free environment to pull them of consistently.
2. Armory system:
I was a fan of the armory system, I like the new system better but i don't understand the point of the new one. Everyones going to have second wind, bloodbath, cure, and raise. Some of the more experienced players will have chameleon maybe but outside of pandering to a new players fantasy of character customization the system serves no real purpose anymore. I get its supposed to make the Classes stand out from the Jobs in the future but why not just give classes they're own unique skills to make them stand out from jobs? Especially considering 80% of the "customizeable" (yes i put that in quotes on purpose) abilities are mostly defensive or healing related abilities and have no real bearing on the bulk of the characters now thankfully more defined class identity.
So all that said i'm calling you out SE this system is to delude new players. Just like the failed subjob system in FFXI. Its a great business idea but I think the newer age of gamers wont be fooled and think you need to abandon gimmicks with respect to the intelligence of gamers that appreciate streamlined content and won't be disappointed when they realize second wind and cure will always be on their action bar...
3. Player Search:
Nailed it SE Nice work.
Gotta give credit where credit is due.
You can set the job your looking for partys as while being another job. Brilliant should have been in FFXI a LOOOOOOONG time ago, mixed with the ability to teleport anywhere and you can now solo leve's, craft, do quests, while looking for a party. Brilliant simply brilliant.
4. The Attributes:
I thought I was going to hate it but it actually got me to pay more attention to my stats which i think FF games need considering the fact that SE LOVES calculation modifications based on level difference, (can't blame them its a good calculation western developers should adopt, it makes character growth more prominent while still preserving end game discrepancies.)
My only issue here is let us reset it, In a game where players can change jobs why lock us into types? If i want my lancer to be solo oriented with points in mind and vit for a period of time why not let me experiment with that for a bit, the point reset based on time that was in before 1.18 was a really smart and new age solution to the common problem of stats reset issues. I'll leave this at that since i don't know if SE has any plans to let us reset stats, i believe it was eluded they'red be something added in the future i just want to encourage it being added in case Yoshi-P is on the fence about it.
All and all the game so far shows A LOT of promise. Some of the new elements that got introduced I feel like i have a right to speculate about, some of the other stuff like EXP, the contrast between doing end game fights for equipment vs affixing materia i'm going to give them some time to sort out.
The new UI's for party search and abilities are snappy and crisp, and simple things like drawing weapons no longer slowing you down to even the chocobo music getting quite when you stand still really show that someone at SE is paying attention to the more subtle annoyances.
But from a game design perspective the development team is still showing signs of immaturity, I hope they continue to ask themselves the tough questions like "What about our game is different then every other MMO!?", "What about FFXIV advances the genra of online RPG gaming!?", instead of falling into the pattern of "well we don't fully understand it but maybe people will like it anyway" mentality that got them into so much trouble in the first place...
That is a long post, I love this game, I love seeing so many new ideas coming out of FFXIV, as always SE has my continued support.
Post your comments, your feelings with out reading my post or the other posters cause you have no etiquette, or whatever else you want. I don't know anyone else who nerds over this game and I think if i bore my girlfriend with anymore details about it she's going to leave me, so thanks for reading lodestone users.
My review of the 1.20 from a GAME DESIGN perspective.
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12-16-2011, 09:37 PMKenJamminMy review of the 1.20 from a GAME DESIGN perspective.
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12-16-2011, 10:06 PMFiron
Actually the positioning of the combo system is fine i pull of my combo's 95% of the time until someone decided to move the target, Also when solo every class can do an 1> 2 combo, those solo combo's do enough dmg to kill stuff in a few seconds. Now the only thing i feel like they should tweak on the combo system is the mp cost for mages. Mages need their mp cost reduced for combo's they don't have to wave the mp cost like tp but at least make them cost 50% of the spell amount.
I don't think its fair melee get 2 free ws but we pay full mp for magic combo's, the thunder combo currently cost around 1.3k mp, which is about 33% of my mp pool. -
12-16-2011, 10:11 PMLunae
Unfortunately for me, the graphics (I guess it's with a combo?) for THM casting elemental spells, and getting that brilliant light on yourself with a success has made this game unplayable for me :( I wound up with a migraine when I was testing things out with my husband on level 50 sheep up near Riversmeet last night and 15-20 minutes of the half hour or so, I was only targeting something, then having to look at another screen while I pressed the buttons.
I did have to push everything that had used the neon blue text into a separate text box too when they'd changed it a few patches back. -
12-16-2011, 10:20 PMviion
I agree with most of what you said except 3. Player Search, as I dont think its the correct system and still find a lot of flaws in it, but everything else is good.
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12-16-2011, 10:36 PMViciousValentine
Im not trying to troll..im just really upset about Thaumaturge. While I understand the icons and spell effects are mostly filler, the actual mana regen system is very poor. The Conj recieved a very balanced mp-regeneration system which really works in dungeons and primals. While I find myself standing a corner as thm waiting for my mana to regen 50% of the time. I love the risk-reward gameplay...and i love a heavy nuker...but this class just feels strange. I don't think Square Enix should design games based on standing and doing nothing waiting to DPS. All of the Thm mana-regen abilities are poor and restore a small portion of what you actually need. 4mp per hit...come on >_< 714mp to cast my best spell.. All i can say is im glad Conj is rid of it.
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12-16-2011, 10:47 PMBetelgeuzah
Bard will make it all better.
So will BLM. -
12-16-2011, 10:49 PMCatapult
Point re-allocations are meant to be possible very soon - they just couldn't get them working for this patch.
Quote:
Planning is underway to give players the option to undo point allotment in a future patch.
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12-16-2011, 11:05 PMChiefCurrahee
I don't mind the positional modifiers on WS. It adds a slight element of strategy in an otherwise auto-attack > WS battle system.
The armoury system I also don't mind, While I'll have staple skills set to my bar nearly 100% of the time like 2nd wind and Cure as you've pointed out. However It allows me to take up skills, that I fee,l will suit what ever it is i'm currently doing. Like FFXI subjob system (which for that game was fine) adds utility to my main class, but unlike FFXI's system, doesn't pigeon hole me into something super specific.
FFXIV still has another year until ver 2.0 drops This isn't the last change or reform to classes /skills / battle / UI / game we'll see. -
12-17-2011, 01:06 AMRoaran
I had high hopes for the combo system, unfortunately for MRD, you have 2 combos to choose from, one for tanking, and the other for DD. There's no choice and no strategy at all, it is as if they grouped up 3 WS, reduced their power to a single one, and called it a combo. (Sadly that's exactly what they did).
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12-17-2011, 01:20 AMCoglinBig axe swinging oafs, flailing there weapon back and forth in rampaging, berserking, whirlwind swings are not to be known for stratagy, planning, or even much thought process in general. They are to be known for damage dealing capabilities and bringing attention to themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaran
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12-17-2011, 01:25 AMnorthernskyGiven that one of the main objective of this patch was streamlining combat and progression, can't say I disagree with the above points.Quote:
Originally Posted by KenJammin
You are right tho that given the number of (useful) cross-classable skills and the number of slots available, we probably won't end up with really distinctive combinations when different players will play the same class. -
12-17-2011, 02:55 AMNakiamiieNothing is wrong with moving to the side, it is much easier to do even while soloing than moving to the rear. I like the different positioning for combo and no, we don't only need rear and front. Some monsters are also weaker on their sides or can't reach you for certain special attacks. Don't say it makes no sense just because you don't get it. You prefer front/rear? Just attack from the front and rear then, leave the sides to other people. Also, moving to the side could be made to help taking out limbs of enemies.Quote:
Originally Posted by KenJammin
It's an MMO, you don't have to use all the little quirks it has to offer, there is plenty because there are plenty of other players and everyone plays differently. Just because you don't like/use it, doesn't mean it is broken/useless.
You like the armoury system but don't like cross-class actions? What is wrong with you? That is part of the armoury system. It is something a many players enjoy, myself included. I am VERY glad we get to cross-class actions. You don't like it? Don't use it. Just wait for the jobs since we won't be able to cross-class with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by KenJammin
Again, it's not because you don't like it that it's a fail. It is only in your eyes, not mine.
Thank you very much devs, the search looks awesome. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by KenJammin
We'll get the reset, just be patient.Quote:
Originally Posted by KenJammin
Very nice indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by KenJammin
What do you truly understand? It's not even 2.0 yet, they presently have to give us content with the system they need change, that's why we have limitations. Before speaking of immaturity you should wait to see what 2.0 is all about and try to understand the restrictions the devs have.Quote:
Originally Posted by KenJammin
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12-17-2011, 04:52 AMPhysic
the armory is teh biggets problem here. Not because the system they have is bad in theory, but in practice there are so few actual skills that you can cross class, and even less that serve a purpose, that virtually everyone will take the same skills bloodbath second wind sentinel invigorate.
Mages have an even bigger problem, because they have even less actually useful cross class skills, before they had a bigger skill list, but now? i think most mages will have a lot of trouble finding 10 skills worth putting on thier bar.
Mp management skills are now few and far between, and bard doesnt really help that much because from what i remember, you will have to choose between mp or tp gains, and since most like 5-6 people in the party are tp based, i think they may want tp over mp, except for rare occaisions.
What mp classes will really need are some more tools for mp management, or they will be standing around waiting.
and they could use a few more useful cross class skills overall, in all honesty when jobs come, if you only get access to one classes sub abilities, you will in most cases be using only 2/10 of your cross class slots. -
12-17-2011, 05:07 AMShneibel
1 thing I d like to add about Combo system, from my point of view I do not understand why there is a space of breath time in combo, lets take PUG combo as example:
Pummel --> Concussive Blow --> Simian Thrust
it cut down to this:
1. Front hit : Pummel
2. Move to side and reposition (here is the space of breath time)
3. Concussive Blow --> Simian Thrust (and here the combo goes continues nonstop until both action are used)
and I come down to 2 conclusion about the space of breath time:
1. Eminity control
2. for the future Group combo
and for point 1 is likely false conclusion, because move from front to side and reposition take 3 sec if you re slow because all you do is just run forward left/forward right into the mob and you re at side of it. So if the purpose is for group combo at the future I will not have problem with it, but if not I d like to know the purpose in detail -
12-17-2011, 05:08 AMKumaAkuma
For a Marauder tank the combo system sucks;
There is only one combo at the front. You could go for the other sides, but then you lose Rampage or you use Enduring March, but then you're too slow to get to the sides in time. -
12-17-2011, 05:09 AMShneibelit work for off-tank :DQuote:
Originally Posted by KumaAkuma
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12-17-2011, 05:33 AMPhysica space of breath time? what do you mean? you mean why do they give like 12 seconds? probably because enemy movement, use of abilities inbetween skills, (like blindside bloodbath etc) and also so you can use your combo bonus on the next enemy even if teh current one dies?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shneibel
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12-17-2011, 05:42 AMDoho
to people who are complaining about positioning, you do know you can run through the mob rather effortlessly and attack from the rear. and a left/right hit is as simple as a strafe. I don't understand the difficulty.
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12-17-2011, 05:56 AMgrandm
thank you for the wall of text, i had less reading in my english exams. ok so from what i can tell you had 2 points that i got too possibly a 3rd that i had got to bored of reading to get too, ok combo system i don't really get what the problem is. it is no hardship to stand at the side. i get the feeling is you are finding it hard to remember where to stand when. don't worry old timer it is not your memory going, it will just ake a bit of practice to work it out
so your second point, every1 using the same cross class abilities. how is that any different than pre 1.19. ppl have always cross classed with second wind, blood bath, cure etc. but what i found really funny about your problem here was, your worries about classes losing their identity, but you hate the combo system and would rather a one shoe fits all system. front and back. where as front back and sides give more variety. so there more individual,
anyway like i said, i didn't get to any more of your points so i can't counter argue :P -
12-17-2011, 06:01 AMShneibelonly that is what I am looking forQuote:
Originally Posted by Physic
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12-17-2011, 06:15 AMPhysicQuote:
Originally Posted by grandm
His point about teh armory is valid, as of right now, there is so few skills to cross class of any real use, the armory is virtually non existent. Allmost all cross class weapon skills are useless because they cant be comboed, and use the same resource the skills that do combo can use.
I havent even got 10 cross class skills on my bar anymore, i cant think of 10 useful skills from other jobs. Whereas before you could build certain playstyle types, that is drastically lowered. The armory system is barely there now. On the plus side, classes themselves are slightly more unique.. kinda....
In some ways they are a lot more unique, but in other ways they are really similar. while every class now has some specific skills that only they can take advantage of, they basically all play like, get one mob get 1000 to 1500 tp do assorted WS chain while applying buffs.
That said, it is a fun system, i think it needs some tweaks, i think it could be overall a little faster, like 10 percent fast foward on animations recharges and delays. And i think they need to give people more tools to control thier specialties, like pug needs a little more mp management tools maybe some movement tools (pug has to move the most for combos), marauder needs a little more standstill or power build mechanics etc.
I think the 15 skill limit may be holding it back, but then again that has a lot to do with cross class skills being fairly rare. as well the fact that jobs add more skills and would theoretically be in play from level 30+ -
12-17-2011, 07:14 AMKumaAkumaSolo fine, but if you're tank in party you can't do that, because you can't just change the mob position and mess with everyone else's combos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doho
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12-17-2011, 07:18 AMKiote
I pretty much agree with you on Just about everything.
I think attacks from the side are fine when you take into consideration the Limb Breaking system.
The Search system is spot on, just need those impending text commands.
I also think the new Armour System is better, but unlike you I think it needs to be loosened up a little not scrapped. It is not a gimmick. What it needs is a realistic set of Offensive Skills to Cross class. I personally think the Reactive Combat Skills would be the Perfect things for this. The regular weapons skills are by design useless on any class but their native class, despite being able to cross class. You are right, that currently every class will be cross classing the same skills and that is for one simple reason. Each class only has one maybe two skills worth cross classing. If they loosen the restrictions a little, i repeat little, it would greatly improve the system. We certainly cannot go back to the previous system.
As far as Attributes are concerned, we are getting redistribution in 1.21, but I do have to say, I think we need more customization than 45 Points. I'd say closer to 100, with those points being detracted from the current auto points not just stacked on top. This is for the very simple fact that GLA, MRD, and PUG COULD be tank or DD. but without more customization in points they are heavily pigeonholed.