Midare Setsugekka doesnt do enough for how long it takes to pull off

assuming you dont have Meikyo, it takes 8 gcd to do it once. by that point mnk, is 1 gcd away from gl3 and drg probly already finished all chaos thrust and jumps and full thrust combo

it takes even longer if you wanna wait to do it with hissatsu kaiten buffed mgsk.

i dont mind overly complicated skill if the reward is justified. right now, it barely beats life surged full thrust

Well, it's a free attack (Zero TP cost), it's also the best Kenki p/potency use for a single target through Kaiten (after banana), You've generated Kenki on the way there so it doesn't take long at all to utilise this, (kenki generation ramps up tremendously once you're above 62).

The skill isn't overly complex at all. Treat it as a filler for TP management / kenki dump through Kaiten to spend your Sen when capped when you can't use Hagakure to generate Kenki.

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Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77

assuming you dont have Meikyo, it takes 8 gcd to do it once. by that point mnk, is 1 gcd away from gl3 and drg probly already finished all chaos thrust and jumps and full thrust combo

it takes even longer if you wanna wait to do it with hissatsu kaiten buffed mgsk.

i dont mind overly complicated skill if the reward is justified. right now, it barely beats life surged full thrust

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Yeah man, none of those preceeding skills do any damage at all, neither do the skills that they generate kenki for. Damage totally isn't balanced around the entire rotation and not just the finisher, not at all.

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Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77

i dont mind overly complicated skill if the reward is justified. right now, it barely beats life surged full thrust

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Auto-crit 440 mag Full thrust vs a non-crit 1080 mag Midare/Kaiten combo = "barely beats"

It's only a 1080 mag attack, over twice the strength of the next highest possible physical attack in the game....there's totally no legit reason for it being hard to build up to. Really.

As others said, it doesn't matter that it takes a while to build (not even that long), because you are doing decent damage to get to that point. Iaijutsu are just added burst on an already solid damage rotation. It's extremely powerful for what it is.

Btw, talking about waiting to buff means you probably didn't get the trait Kenki Mastery II which makes you overflow with Kenki (hence having Filler abilities to spend it). Have you seen Kaiten Midare Setsugekka with a direct crit? It's crazy.

Dude, it's a free 720 potency attack that gets buffed to easily 1200k+ potency internally thru the job. That can be done several times a minute. It's fine.

Before accounting for party buffs, at minimum Kaiten has an effective potency of 1,296 BEFORE any crits or direct hits are calculated, or party buffs are activated. I'm not seeing how an attack that easily deals 10k+ can be considered weak, by any stretch of the imagination.

Yeah me Direct Critting for over 18k while at level 64 isn't enough damage. Plz buff. The fuck is this topic even?

Not to mention that AoE damage is built into the combos for free, so you can just do your normal rotation on packs NP.

Its an attack with 720 potency that can be upped to 1000 potency and further up via other class skill like ast balance toward 1200 potency.

Its free, and you can do it once every 8-10 seconds AND you can do it twice thanks to meikyo AAND you still ask for more?!??

And with loldrg, heavy + chaos + full + fang + wheeling + geki = 2530 potency total
Sam? Gekko + kasha + yukikaze + midare = 2870 potency total every 8-10 seconds

While drg their next rotation become 2310 potency total because geki has 35s CD, not counting our other ogcd skill has 30s 60s and 120s CD, and dont start with your sam ogcd hissatsu, 300 and no CD as long you have 25 bar cost?

You sam should pray to your kami hope it didnt get nerf at later patch because right now sam (and rdm) are downright flatting most dps class.

...please tell me this is a joke post...

This must be a joke, dude probably hasn't hit 62 yet, or he wouldn't be complaining about Kenki. SAM is the only class that I feel has almost nothing wrong with it. (Available skills in select pre-50 dungeons is bizarre, but a lot of classes are feeling this.)

It's damage is off the charts. I need new pants when I pull off a Critical + Direct Hit + Kaiten + Midare. My record was 18,356 damage AT LEVEL 64 WITH QUEST GEAR! I can't even fathom the damage at end game; especially with BIS gear tailored to produce that effect.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

This must be a joke, dude probably hasn't hit 64 yet, or he wouldn't be complaining about Kenki. SAM is the only class that I feel has almost nothing wrong with it. (Available skills in select pre-50 dungeons is bizarre, but a lot of classes are feeling this.)

It's damage is off the charts. I need new pants when I pull off a Critical + Direct Hit + Kaiten + Midare. My record was 18,356 damage AT LEVEL 64 WITH QUEST GEAR! I can't even fathom the damage at end game; especially with BIS gear tailored to produce that effect.

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It's around 25k with AF. Either the mob gets deleted or the boss gets chunked.

@OP The build up doesn't even take that long. Especially considering Meikyo has such a low CD, and timing burst with Haga / Guren / Midare... Christ the numbers that pop up scare me. There are other things to manage in the rotation as well and it's not just about the draw.
Get used to swimming in Kenki and mashing Shinten. A lot.

Also... Barely beats a LS Full Thrust?
http://i.imgur.com/dQLV1OE.gif

Obviously a joke guys, calm down.... it is a joke right?

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Originally Posted by Leonus

Obviously a joke guys, calm down.... it is a joke right?

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I'm actually hoping more people feel this way, because then SE will buff us even more. ^_^

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Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77

it barely beats life surged full thrust

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If this is bait then it's a 10/10. You made me reply.

At level 60 with a BiS DRG my Life Surge Thrusts were about 10K on average, and the stars had to align for even that. My jumps were far stronger and even then, the best I ever hit was 13K.

Meanwhile at the same level, with full Alexandrian Monk Gear, SAM's Midares are hitting 23K on Kaiten Direct Crits. That's TWENTY THREE THOUSAND. At level 60. I'd kill a thousand thousand Nidhoggs to be able to shit out that kind of damage on DRG. Plus Sammy can do those FREQUENTLY. While unoptimal, it's perfectly posssible with enough reserves to do two of those in 10 seconds.

Midare ought to be named Hissatsu: Delete for all the damage it does

^and not counting it reusable every 8-10 seconds while drg LS stuck with 60s cooldown and she complain "barely beat"

I can see next patch SE probably up the cooldown of midare to somewhere within 20-30 seconds in the future, its downright broken right now

Midare does feel a tad underwhelming compared to what Ninja and DRG bring utility wise. How about buffing it to a base potency of an even 1,000?

Next patch new midare skill system, need all 3 emblem and 100 kenki bar

Once you target your enemy and use it, it goes into quicktime maneuver and you need to tap the button as fast as you can for 10 seconds, each tap hit the enemy for 10 potency. No cooldown and has flashy non stop slicing animation like raiden from mgs revengeance.

That actually sound ridicilous stupid fun skill ;)

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Originally Posted by gumas

Next patch new midare skill system, need all 3 emblem and 100 kenki bar

Once you target your enemy and use it, it goes into quicktime maneuver and you need to tap the button as fast as you can for 10 seconds, each tap hit the enemy for 10 potency. No cooldown and has flashy non stop slicing animation like raiden from mgs revengeance.

That actually sound ridicilous stupid fun skill ;)

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We'll call it "Hissatsu: Breakuru Mousen."

From the FFXIV subreddit: http://imgur.com/a/8d6CF

...Yeaaaaah. I'd say Midare Setsugekka is pretty effing strong.

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Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

http://imgur.com/a/8d6CF

...Yeaaaaah. I'd say Midare Setsugekka is pretty effing strong.

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That damage is nuts but I'm looking at that Bloodbath heal and all I feel is hatred. SE took my skill from me and I will never forgive them. Of course SAM would be the job that heals like old school Inner Beast did back in the day. Of course SAM would have more sustain than WAR does after The Guttening.

Yeah I mad. I'm still leveling SAM too cause it's so damn fun, but I'll always be a WAR at heart.

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Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

http://imgur.com/a/8d6CF

...Yeaaaaah. I'd say Midare Setsugekka is pretty effing strong.

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have you decided on how you are gonna gear? det crit DH?

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Originally Posted by shingenpride

have you decided on how you are gonna gear? det crit DH?

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Not my character in the screenshot I linked, I edited my post to reflect that. But I've been balancing DET/Crit/DH while keeping SS low as we don't have the math yet on which is best for potency.

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Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

Not my character in the screenshot I linked, I edited my post to reflect that. But I've been balancing DET/Crit/DH while keeping SS low as we don't have the math yet on which is best for potency.

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As only a mid 50's SAM, I find the Shifu buff is enough SS for me right now. I seem to be able to get skills off pretty frequently without too many issues. I suppose we'll have to see if there are specific breakpoints needed at 70.

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Originally Posted by Quor

As only a mid 50's SAM, I find the Shifu buff is enough SS for me right now. I seem to be able to get skills off pretty frequently without too many issues. I suppose we'll have to see if there are specific breakpoints needed at 70.

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so far without having alot of 310/320 gear, im finding 2 sec gcd is enough, i think personally ill start to materia for det and dh,

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Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

From the FFXIV subreddit: http://imgur.com/a/8d6CF

...Yeaaaaah. I'd say Midare Setsugekka is pretty effing strong.

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https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZdOkdNChseI/maxresdefault.jpg

/10char

All this talk about midare but you'll rarely use it once you get Hagakure.

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Originally Posted by Mordred

All this talk about midare but you'll rarely use it once you get Hagakure.

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Not really, hagakure would gramt you 60 kenki sure, which would then be used on Hissatsu: Guren, which has potency of 800, while Midare Setsugekka has a potency of 720. Just looking at 800 beats 720 sure, but Hissatsu: Guren is counted as an ability not a weapon skill so ot is not effected by Hissatsu: Kaiten which increases a weaponskills potency by 50%, and that brings Midare Setsugekka up too 1080, which easily makes Midare Setsugekka the better option.

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Originally Posted by Alchemii

Not really, hagakure would gramt you 60 kenki sure, which would then be used on Hissatsu: Guren, which has potency of 800, while Midare Setsugekka has a potency of 720. Just looking at 800 beats 720 sure, but Hissatsu: Guren is counted as an ability not a weapon skill so ot is not effected by Hissatsu: Kaiten which increases a weaponskills potency by 50%, and that brings Midare Setsugekka up too 1080, which easily makes Midare Setsugekka the better option.

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You should not calculate it like this. Midare Setsugekka requires 3 Sens and Kaiten requires 20 Kenki.
Hagakure allows us to create a direct relationship between Sen and Kenji where each Sen is worth 20 Kenki.

So essentially your Kaiten: Midare Setsugekka is worth 80 Kenki. So you can basically do both a Hissatsu: Guren and Hissatsu: Shinten for the same price as that one Midare Setsugekka. That's worth 1,100 potency and you'd still have 5 Kenki leftover. Then you take into account that the Kenki spenders are, as you said, not weaponskills and therefore you get this potency without cast time and between gcds.

Midare Setsugekka is amazing but once Hagakure is up and comes into play, it's not worth the cost relatively. That said, if all you do is spam Hissatsu: Shinten with Hagakure then it's not efficient either because Shinten is the least efficient Kenki spender. So you need something like Guren to dump the Kenki on for it to be worth trading.

Hagakure actually seems to math out to always be an increase after looking into it.

I don't see BLMs complaining how long takes to get Foul or DRGs complaining how long takes to get LotD or SMNs complaining how long takes to get bahamut...

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Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77

assuming you dont have Meikyo, it takes 8 gcd to do it once. by that point mnk, is 1 gcd away from gl3 and drg probly already finished all chaos thrust and jumps and full thrust combo

it takes even longer if you wanna wait to do it with hissatsu kaiten buffed mgsk.

i dont mind overly complicated skill if the reward is justified. right now, it barely beats life surged full thrust

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This has to be a troll post, lol
Why else would you compare what it takes to get 3 Sen, which are a resource, to what it takes to get three GL stacks? Spending Sen, regardless of how, is built into the class. You only 'spend' GL stacks under the most niche of situations.

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Originally Posted by Crushing_Wake

This has to be a troll post, lol
Why else would you compare what it takes to get 3 Sen, which are a resource, to what it takes to get three GL stacks? Spending Sen, regardless of how, is built into the class. You only 'spend' GL stacks under the most niche of situations.

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Why would you bump/necro this troll thread knowing what it is?
The OP never replied after posting.
Well, I guess I just joined you.

This topic can't be real. Did you actually reference dragoons shitty opener? Our only purpose is to give you samurai dragon sight and litany. Our dps is pathetic now, and our ramp up is 90+ seconds for barely more potency than midare. And our potency is over 25+ seconds

So what you're saying is, you want to do these insanely devastating attacks leading up to an even stronger attack than you have now?

You're already a good 500dps away from same skill level Monks and even more DPS away from DRGs. Why in the hell are you complaining about damage?

Yes! What a fantastic idea let's make Samurai even more overpowered and just delete all other dps classes... /s

Atm we dont know how the new raid looks. We only have 2 (ez) extreme primaes. Monk in HW was 200-300 dps ahead of other melees and the missing ultility was not worth bringing him into the raid. If the SAM keeps up the 500 DPS difference overall than we will see if he is really better than take DRG/NIN or Monk/NIN.


But as many other said a buff will never happen. But to the guys who cry about their dps ...SAM is in the right spot to compare the missing ultility. If you lower his damage by lets say 200 DPS he is in the same spot Monk was and how was your chance as a Monk Player main to clear content? = 0 Because even the midcore raid groups think they are bound to meta.

I like the SAM so far but i would gladly give up some DPS for group ultility

This is a slap in the face to DRGs. The fact that DRG is being used in comparison is rubbing salt in the wound. With all of the effort and frustration it takes to ramp up 4 eye stacks, have a Geirskogul ready to enter LotD, have our buffs and timers line up to fire 3 Nastronds, our DPS is still trash. Our DPS is bottom tier now, our utility remains more or less unchanged. And here we have SAM, effortlessly doing top tier DPS, pulling higher crits than BLM and still have the nerve to complain that they feel "weak". It's really defeating breaking your back, doing everything right, feeling like you did some killer ass DPS on DRG only to find that your DPS was struggling to even keep up with the SAM.