How are Tanks holding up from PLD WAR DRK

Since i did not reach Doma yet and I put my WAR asside for my SAM how are u holding up at the moment, hows enmity controlle, how do u find ur new skills are u happy, is there something missing? Tell me about it :)

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Originally Posted by Xerxus___

Since i did not reach Doma yet and I put my WAR asside for my SAM how are u holding up at the moment, hows enmity controlle, how do u find ur new skills are u happy, is there something missing? Tell me about it :)

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As of now the consensus is that WARS are nolonger the best at everything, PLD got buffed to hell so they are great currently the best tank, DRK got nerfed to IMO unplayable status. Enmity Generation feels alot weaker and aoe pulling is alot harder as well give that enmity generation is alot lower. Tank stance is becoming more and more mandatory as well theres less stance dancing you should check the forums and reddit theres alot of detailed replies if you want more info.

Also for my opinion on doing a few runs with the new DRK i dislike just spaming DA on everything and the loss of many of my cd's to class roles are also damaging i personally am not liking the current state of tanking in SB.

Early days and probably change a bit at higher levels but the oath gauge is slow as he'll to build up in shield. Even with bullwark active. And the loss of half of it when you swap to sword seems to make it almost unusable. Bosses are dead before it fills up.

Dark Knight is a hollow shell of itself.

Being DRK is suffering, though I will endure

Having fun with Drk, no aggro issues or anything, I will say the mobs hit quite a lot harder though. Gonna continue to hit drk 70 tonight.

i enjoy a lot the DRK tomorrow will hit lvl 70, at exception of blood price i love how the job works and im going pretty good

Lots of disappointment.

I've mained WAR for a long while and I'm honestly still not sure how to play now. I'm so used to blowing 70% of my CDs for a big pull, but without BloodBath that doesn't really make sense anymore. I don't have the head for figuring out numbers so I'm just kinda using big CDs in a chain now and comboing smaller ones?

Also I dunno if it's that, or just a general thing, but I feel so much squishier now! I've had a ton of close calls.

It's a big change in playstyle, at least for me.

WAR isn't as good as it once was, but I'm still really having fun tanking. I feel good, it looks good, and the combo works really nicely. Certainly squishier, but it's still a lot of fun.

-PLD feels great, but has a bit to much damage and not enough use for oath guage. I'd like for them to put Divine Veil as an oath ability and reduce their potencies to emphasize the support-tank aspect.

-WAR is nice and the new skills are fun to use, but it feels a lot more clunky. I'd like it if they brought Bloodbath back as a toggle-able stance, similar to Darkside, that gives a small damage buff and HP drain effect, but also creates a bleedng effect that gets nastier if you don't keep your GCDs rolling non stop to encourage aggressive, berserker gameplay.

-DRK is DARK, for me, and still lacks gameplay identity but it's still feels good to play. I'd like for Darkside to drain your HP the longer it's active and design the class around keeping it's HP low and killing itself periodically to activate Living Dead for a super buff, like a Hallowed Ground/Berserk hybrid.

Offtanking as war has never been more boring. I wish we'd get to maintank in the future too..

Starting to hate my favorite class. Dark Arts being spammed is taking the fun out of it and is making the class feel clunky.

I'm not so sure about Paladin, feels like it has a lot more buttons now since it didn't lose any of its old combo/ attack skills, but gained an aoe before their new skills. Just seeming a bit bloated to me when it used to have every necessary button in reach. As for fun... Eh... Not so much

On the opposite end, my drk hotbar felt so empty after removing all the greyed out skills. It feels simpler, a bit smoother to play I guess but not in trash pulls. I hope so badly that blood price is bugged right now and not supposed to just give back 1 da worth of mp in a 10+ enemy pull.

War, I have no idea how to play anymore. Took it into a dungeon, it tried and I died, and it doesn't seem rewarding enough for me to put the effort in to learn it again. My static already has a warrior

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I'd like for them to put Divine Veil as an oath ability and reduce their potencies to emphasize the support-tank aspect.

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And fall out of meta again, because everyone wants more raid DPS. No, thanks.

Only played a few dungeons as DRK, just did the level 61 dungeon for the first time today. It feels difficult to hold Aggro on any pull, I can't tell if they want me to dance between grit being off and on to use Blood weapon or if I should just stay in grit. I feel really defenseless with almost all my mitigation being role abilities, and I feel like I dont have enough to be a proper tank. Unleash feels way less useful and RDM and SAM are making holding aggro a living nightmare. I have to DA power Slash a few times on bosses to make sure that I wont lose aggro to them.

It feels akwardly wrong to *never* use the aggro combo past the pull. As a WAR, it's a straight up loss since storm's path gives 20 gauge instead of 10, allowing for more dps in deliverance stance, and more mitigation in defiance stance (or more aggro in AoE fights). As a PLD, I am still confused as to why we have an aggro combo at all since it doesn't have any benefit anymore in 8 man content (shirk easily does the job of enmity control if the off-tank isn't sleeping) and is barely useful in 4 man content (securing aggro in case you're fucking up or the dps is going rampage on a single target in AoE pulls).

I still have to find a use for oath gauge, since Shelltron is barely useful as it is (tank busters, maybe?) and the other skill I have for now (lv65), Intervention? or something, has zero use as main tank for the content I've seen so far.


Oh yeah, and I will deeply miss flash as a WAR. my pulls feel so weird now that I can't just take all rounder aggro and porition myself before overpower spam kicks in

As DRK I would like some aggro and mp please. AoE is awful despite us having the most AoE skills out of any tank. Also I just now feel like I've closed the damage nerf gap. Living Dead is still terrible.

Drk feels fine but I keep trying to hit scourge ;_; & mp seems near unlimited for some reason...blood price was nerfed a bit much though. I mean 1/4 regen is pretty rough.

Pld feels pretty fantastic now but the button bloat is real.

War I have really played since 4.0 launch because it's so samey minus the fun self sustain.

Aggro is definitely a bit harder to maintain.I remedy this by equipping a 270 STR accessories set occasionally depending on who's healing, or always for bosses(no regrets). Not to mention your damage increase is bonkers.You lose 9K hp but gain several hundred dps. I am almost outdamaging BIS ranged on my PLD without slashing debuff o.o I had forgotten how potent STR tanking was -evil laugh-

As a WAR the fun part of the job was in the balancing of keeping aggro and swapping stances to shoot out big bursts of damage before returning to tank stance for me. I liked having those toys and playing around with them. And with the cross class skills i had a flood of CDs to help out the healers.

These are my impressions so far.

Nowadays in PvE (in my experience atm)
Now warriors get penalized for swapping stances since the gauge (that takes a lot of time getting full it feels like) basically HALVES when you swap stances, so you can either stay in your tank stance and play it safe, or risk stressing your healer out because you wanted to ditch out more damage. But lo and behold before that gauge fills up for the second or third Fell Cleave the deeps might catch the aggro and now that you've been nerfed squishier it might be a dumb idea. It'll take learning and I'm sure WAR wont be "broken" once people decode the best rotation and openers and so on, but in PvE it quite frankly feels punishing to play as WAR.

In PvP
WAR is so much fun in PvP however, with the new gap closer you now have that and holmgang to merder those sassy little healers, and with the way the skills have been streamlined WAR feels more fluid than it did pre SB.

I feel like WAR got changes it didn't need, if i could swap those five Fell Cleaves for not losing half of my gauge every time i swapped i would. Losing half of your gauge every time you swap feels demoralizing and punishing which doesn't feel that fun. But WAR is my baby, I've grown too attached to it to just toss it at this point.

DRK feels incredible at 70. It feels as fast as ever, and definitely has come into its own. The resource management is a lot of fun, and the interaction between Delirium and Blood Weapon/Price is really interesting and has a lot of complexity to it. TBN, quite frankly, is one of the best defensive abilities that I've used, and kind of feels like an on-demand mini-Hallowed. I would definitely reserve judgement on the jobs until you reach max level.

Part of the problem is that with the old (primarily parry based) abilities removed, it initially feels lackluster. But you really have to have all the pieces together to see what they were trying to do with the job. This feels so much better than the old DRK.

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Originally Posted by Xerxus___

Since i did not reach Doma yet and I put my WAR :)

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I been doing big pulls and still tanking in sword oath on pali loving the aoe

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Originally Posted by MahoSenshi

And fall out of meta again, because everyone wants more raid DPS. No, thanks.

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Yes, raid DPS, not personal DPS.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

DRK feels incredible at 70. It feels as fast as ever, and definitely has come into its own. The resource management is a lot of fun, and the interaction between Delirium and Blood Weapon/Price is really interesting and has a lot of complexity to it. TBN, quite frankly, is one of the best defensive abilities that I've used, and kind of feels like an on-demand mini-Hallowed. I would definitely reserve judgement on the jobs until you reach max level.

Part of the problem is that with the old (primarily parry based) abilities removed, it initially feels lackluster. But you really have to have all the pieces together to see what they were trying to do with the job. This feels so much better than the old DRK.

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I'm having fun a lot of fun managing blood weapon, delirium, and bloodspiller. I think they could drop the blood cost of Quietus to 25 and make it oGCD. They also need to do something about blood price.

Delete Dark Passenger.

Blood Price feels undertuned for single target, probably because it easily gets out of hand in AoE. BP ticks are 0.05DA to BW's 0.2DA, so once you get above about 4 mobs or so, the MP/blood generation becomes very quick. You gain resources faster than you can spend it.

The nerf to DP in single target is unfortunate, but now it's basically your AoE alternative to DA C+S. I had to re-keybind it to force myself not to hit it in single target out of muscle memory.

Reached 70 yesterday with DRK, my feelings :

https://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/369893ODNSmeme.png

https://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/474712TSmeme.png

https://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/639112SBmeme.png

btw very fun to play (RIP scourge... and MP)

I've noticed that levelling dungeons hit unexpectedly hard, though iirc it was more or less the same in Heavensward. I suppose once we overgear them they won't feel as menacing, but the damage output feels... new. That said, I have had a lot of stance dancing opportunities in trash pulls. Combining Rampart with Anticipation and Awareness mitigates a surprising amount of damage, and Anticipation is up for pretty much every pull in a dungeon. Susano was kicking the shit out of me in NM, though, LOL. The first damage spikes at the beginning of the fight were unexpected.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

DRK feels incredible at 70. It feels as fast as ever, and definitely has come into its own. The resource management is a lot of fun, and the interaction between Delirium and Blood Weapon/Price is really interesting and has a lot of complexity to it. TBN, quite frankly, is one of the best defensive abilities that I've used, and kind of feels like an on-demand mini-Hallowed. I would definitely reserve judgement on the jobs until you reach max level.

Part of the problem is that with the old (primarily parry based) abilities removed, it initially feels lackluster. But you really have to have all the pieces together to see what they were trying to do with the job. This feels so much better than the old DRK.

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I'm really happy to hear you're having fun. I don't know if others will agree, but I always look to your posts for more neutral information and opinions, so seeing you enjoying the job when everyone else is despising it, and also seeing you trying to get a more grounded look at it is refreshing.

As for me, I'm enjoying Palading quite a bit. I've only gotten to 66 so far, and while I agree Sheltron and oath generation in ShO isn't stellar until you get Holy Spirit, it really isn't too much of a problem. I've given Intervention some nice uses in dungeons and the one Trial I've been in, so I'm really happy with the skill. I'm still trying to figure out what is best to do in ShO, if spamming Holy Spirit by abusing the amounts of oath gauge you generate with it or sticking to the old combos. That said, I've only actually had the chance to properly play PLD in one day, since I was stuck in Rauhbann EX for all of Friday and Saturday. I guess it won't take long before we make up a good optimal rotation that takes everything into account.

PvP is really fun with all three of the tanks. They all bring something unique to the table and they're all really fun to play. Hopefully the simplicity of PvP won't make it stale too quick.

Warrior is loads of fun.

People are mentioning feeling squishy...remember we're in leveling content and not overgearing stuff by 10 to 30 levels anymore.

My healers and I are pretty sure everything has been designed to hit harder in dungeons. Fun though, we all have to pay attention more lol.

JP players are also complaining about this the aggro and tank issues. Most of them wants the tanks roll back to 3.56 instead of this "new" playstyle.

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Yes, raid DPS, not personal DPS.

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And how locking DV behind the oath gauge coupled with suggested lowering their personal damage helps with it? Big part of negative PLD meta in 3.0 was their DPS.
Bigger personal tanks damage lead to easier enmity control -> more DPS stance uptime, more help with DPS checks and phase skipping. In the end its always about who can bring more DPS via personal damage and/or party damage buffs and just enough mitigation to survive.

I have not had any issue with war except of course removing flash kinda makes levelling harsh on tp. For bosses have no problem doing a normal unchained pull and then switching to deliverance and holding agro. One thing I have noticed is my old BiS since we pretty much avoided parry like the plague with raid gear when I hit the 65 dungeon the trash start to hit like god damn trucks so started to change my gear with a mix of 66 and 64 gear with now 998 tenacity and plan to run the dungeon again to see how much better it feels. So War feels fine as is atm and hoping it gets better at 70, just required a little adjusting at the beginning, still annoyed can't infuriate pre pull though so goodbye 60s raid pull.

Also guys remember tenacity is a thing now, if you feel squishy might mean you just need more tenacity.

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Originally Posted by MahoSenshi

Bigger personal tanks damage lead to easier enmity control -> more DPS stance uptime, more help with DPS checks and phase skipping. In the end its always about who can bring more DPS via personal damage and/or party damage buffs and just enough mitigation to survive.

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Yes, and I'm still convinced that Intervention, Cover and Passage Of Arms as an OT can increase DPS-stance uptime even more for the MT to compensate for PLD's lower DPS output.

Especially if, as suggested, Divine Veil is changed to be an Oath Action with its CD reduced drastically.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

Warrior is loads of fun.

People are mentioning feeling squishy...remember we're in leveling content and not overgearing stuff by 10 to 30 levels anymore...

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Most of my dungeons so far I'm level synced and noticing the same thing. Did a HW dungeon in the early 50's and I noticed my HP going down and the healer using a bit more heals on me. I am brand new to tanking overall so I am not trying old tricks in a new trade. I took up WAR b/c everyone said it was going to be horrible, I may just jump to DRK after this after what people are saying.

The only thing I can compare to now vs then is hate. I never had any real hate issues and really just zombie through dungeon roulettes for tomes. Now, even synced I have to do a bit more. I may not be doing optimal DPS rotations or whatever but so far with my playstyle the dungeons haven't felt to go on any longer as if I was doing it on White Mage.

I am enjoying toggling between hate generation moves, damage reduction etc.. I haven't had many TP issues but if I do it's not impossible for me to get a goad or a tactician for the few occasions I needed it. I know "You shouldn't need it" this might be true, then just means that it's me and not the job. So I need help, and since I did I asked for it. Luckily some players didn't give me the "you don't pay my sub" and threw me some TP, and we kept on trucking.

Glad to hear from you all, and u your opinion about Tanks. Seems like we have to wait till 4.1 or 4.2? For a better update? Have the feeling its still experimental work going on here so I hope all Tanks get more of a rebalance patch.

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Originally Posted by Xerxus___

Glad to hear from you all, and u your opinion about Tanks. Seems like we have to wait till 4.1 or 4.2? For a better update? Have the feeling its still experimental work going on here so I hope all Tanks get more of a rebalance patch.

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Hoping we don't have to wait for that long, considering x.1 patches come out a few months after x.0?

Given the state of tanks and healers, no wonder why people are jumping ship to DPS by the boatload.

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Originally Posted by Nuclearducky

Hoping we don't have to wait for that long, considering x.1 patches come out a few months after x.0?

Given the state of tanks and healers, no wonder why people are jumping ship to DPS by the boatload.

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For me Its very hard to play dps right now , with every que sayin it will be 30 mins are more, even if I was upset with the tanks playin a dps just doesnt even seem like an option

Yeah i noticed in alot of pf, I see alot of missing tanks like they literally signalising (no this is not what we tanks wantes, this is not what we waited for 2 years) I stopped War as I have been tanking now about 11 years. So Sam and Nin are my main focus now. I just hope we tanks get more in return in future patches.

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Originally Posted by Xerxus___

Glad to hear from you all, and u your opinion about Tanks. Seems like we have to wait till 4.1 or 4.2? For a better update? Have the feeling its still experimental work going on here so I hope all Tanks get more of a rebalance patch.

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most likely 4.1, i don't think they have balls to anger people for more than 6 months
though for me i believe they will only make significant changes by 5.0

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Originally Posted by konpachizaraki

most likely 4.1, i don't think they have balls to anger people for more than 6 months
though for me i believe they will only make significant changes by 5.0

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I agree, SB is bringing in money they cant afford to lose players due to job specification failure, as some did literally cancel their subscription due to now having the class as certain people Imagined or hoped.

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Originally Posted by QuellaSteelborn

I have to DA power Slash a few times on bosses to make sure that I wont lose aggro to them.

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Did you check how much enmity you generated with that? i noticed yesterday that doing single RoH combo in a tank stance gave HUGE amount of enmity, SAM was like 10% off pulling hate but one combo cut that enmity bar almost in half.