Not stolen, projected

I keep hearing over and over; this or that- was stolen from my job.
When in reality those action were already being projected as part of the old cross-class system.

Esuna = Leeches = Exalted detriment

Each of the healer jobs had abilities singled out that were either "copies" with different names amongst them.
Or were so meta that they were required to pick as your cross-class action regardless (protect, CS, E4E)

So please- lets try to stay away from the "stole this"-"took away that" its still part of our collective roles now. Projected towards all the healers now.
Please and thankyou.

I think people's problems are more centered around that they used to get an ability as part of their toolset but now they have to "spend" a role action to get it.

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Originally Posted by BlastHardcheese

I think people's problems are more centered around that they used to get an ability as part of their toolset but now they have to "spend" a role action to get it.

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This. In order for a White Mage to get back to where it was previously it needs to spend slots on Protect, Esuna, Lucid Dreaming and Largesse (which is now nerfed, too). That's 4 slots for what we had natively. Out of 5. Not even counting Cleric as it's now near worthless and E4E and Swiftcast as we had to buy them anyway.

There was so much more they could have done with this system beyond just giving us our abilities back to us and acting like it's a new thing.

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Originally Posted by Metsonm

White Mage

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Just white mage, huh?

No, but a Scholar has to buy back Leeches and E4E. An Astro has to buy back Esuna, Largesse, and Lucid Dreaming.

I used White Mage as the example because they got shafted the hardest out of it.

A case could be made about Scholar needing to buy back their Aetherflow regen but that still brings it to 3 compared to 4 at best from WHM, 5 if you count whatever the hell CS became.

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Originally Posted by Metsonm

This. In order for a White Mage to get back to where it was previously it needs to spend slots on Protect, Esuna, Lucid Dreaming and Largesse (which is now nerfed, too). That's 4 slots for what we had natively. Out of 5. Not even counting Cleric as it's now near worthless and E4E and Swiftcast as we had to buy them anyway.

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Ok, Astro has to spend slots to replace the healing buff on Synastry, Lucid Dreaming, ED, Heavy. That's also 4 slots.

Ok, Scholar has to spend slots to replace Leeches, Eye for an Eye, completely lost Virus and other skills.

White Mage isn't special.
All three of the classes are now on more even footing and have a little more flexibility in preparing for a fight, especially when there are 2 healers.

It's like you missed the memo that one of the major goals of the battle revamp was to reduce skill bloat. This system was necessary to accomplish that and added a few more options for anyone who wants to give them a try.

If we're counting heavy, which never really saw play, add that to WHM too. If we're counting Virus put us down for Stoneskin and Stoneskin II.

Homogenisation does not lead to interesting play. You say this brings healers more in line with each other by giving them the same tools. How's that worked in regards to AST which is just WHM with extras added on? The healers all need to be separate and have their own identities.

Scholar's Ship sank 10 yalms deeper than WHM but with all the WHMs screaming in the perfect harmonious pitch of pure terror, the devs didn't even care to make a thread. Scholars can't buy back what they lost. It's gone. No real compenstations were made. WHM lost divine seal? You have the option of taking Largese and your cure/cure II got buffed. Embrace lost 50 potency. Adlo costs more. Aetherflow nerfed, Loss of DoTs make the class more nuke oriented (heavier mp consumption,) removal of super Virus all make Scholars weaker healers. Let's think about that. Does Excog really outweigh the flexibility of Virus? Can it save an entire raid? What about fey union? Can it save you enough lustrates to use energy drain to save mp over just old embrace?

On top of all this AoE dps is gone. Gives my RDM a chance to shine though since Scholars might as well just heal pulls.

So yeah, id rather be able to buy my stuff back then have it stolen away from my class forever.

The role skills should be exactly that. As long as i am that role and level it becomes part of my kit. There should ve no slots at all. As I level I get them like any other skill.

Honestly thats what I thought it would be anyway.

I've always thought the cross role system was dubious from the get go. More so now that I see how the implemented it. There seems to be no rhyme or reason.

1) You "earn" your first role ability at level 8, but your first slot isn't earned until 12. Say what?
2) We can get to level 70 now. Why is there no extra slot at 56 and another at 64?
3) Why are there no new "role" abilities after level 50? Our characters grow, why doesn't this system grow with us? There are certainly some spells the devs can add that don't take away from our jobs that could help all of us, right? And yeah, yeah, button bloat this button bloat that, you could at least have something like protect II in there or something and let Protect upgrade and downgrade like our damaging spells if you're that concerned about it, but still. I think it's stupid and don't really find button bloat an excuse for not giving us more tools/upgraded tools.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

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1) If that's indeed the case, that is definitely weird.

2) Button bloat. Also, the more of these skills we can pick, the more classes of a certain role will play alike and the less meaningful the choice of cross role skills becomes. Unless the amount of avaiable skills grow with it.

3) I guess because at 50, you're done learning your role and start specialising in your job. And that's fine, isn't it? I don't see the need to add more generic skills, and I certainly don't see why they should be spread out even more. If we do get more skills and spells in the future, I'd rather see job-specific ones, or ones that do let us actually specialize in one way or another (instead of adding shared, almost mandatory spells such as esuna). Besides, would you seriously welcome an upgraded skills just for the arbritary need to see this system grow? Cause that's genuinely meaningless. That literally changes nothing gameplay-wise.

I agree with the above statement. The changes didn't make a huge difference in my opinion. We were given role actions, while losing job actions. So instead of playing the job as intended from the get go, something you were likely content and familiar with by now, you just go ahead and replace the ones they took away with the same or equivalent role action. This leaves no room for other ones that are interesting and useful to a point, but will ALWAYS take a back seat unless you plan ahead with the group for diversity.