Leviathan and Titan already summoned?

The Mythril Eye says this:

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[A Deathless Dilemma]
A handful of years ago, a Lominsan pirating crew called the Company of Heroes garnered great glory by vanquishing Leviathan and Titan, the primals of the Sahagin and the kobolds respectively. Before the season had turned, however, the two beast tribes were reported to have called forth their gods once more, neither of whom was any worse for the wear. Such is the conundrum confronted by those who seek to smite summoned beings.

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So, Leviathan and Titan were both summoned before Ifrit and have been re-summoned following their death too. What is the huge fuss over Ifrit then? Shouldn't we have been extra worried about Titan and Leviathan to begin with? Or is Limsa Lominsa that awesome it can deal with two Primals without breaking a sweat? Is this why we have NPCs that know how to defeat Primals (i.e. the old Elezen in Gridania for the Ifrit's quests)?

I don't understand, I think I am missing something in the story. :confused:

They were going to be the next Primals after Ifrit, but the devs have said due to the tsunami and earthquakes in Japan, it was the respectful thing to do to not feature enemies whose iconic attacks are Tsunami and Quake.

I think it's a nice touch that they at least mentioned them.

Yeah maybe its an attempt to bring in continuity with the starting cut scenes? Leviathan was in the LL new character starting video. What was that all about..... Was Titan in anything?

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

They were going to be the next Primals after Ifrit, but the devs have said due to the tsunami and earthquakes in Japan, it was the respectful thing to do to not feature enemies whose iconic attacks are Tsunami and Quake.

I think it's a nice touch that they at least mentioned them.

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kind of like after 9/11 if they had a summon who attacked you buy crashing a plane into you.

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Originally Posted by Irondude

Yeah maybe its an attempt to bring in continuity with the starting cut scenes? Leviathan was in the LL new character starting video. What was that all about..... Was Titan in anything?

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Titan is in the opening CS with Ifrit

many speculates that this could be him
http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...TitanFFXIV.jpg

Titan and Leviathan will be added as bosses later, for reasons already mentioned. I'd expect that after Garuda they might consider it.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

They were going to be the next Primals after Ifrit, but the devs have said due to the tsunami and earthquakes in Japan, it was the respectful thing to do to not feature enemies whose iconic attacks are Tsunami and Quake.

I think it's a nice touch that they at least mentioned them.

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Wait, did they really say that was the reason? OT a little: I was wondering where this Moogle King idea came from and what happen to the 'real' primals were sposed to be fighting. I understand and sympathize with the tragedies in Japan, but I don't really get that because Levi and Titan happen to be water and earth element based (something that they've been since.. forever) should dicate that they couldn't be included in the game right now.. They are just pre-existing fictional characters that have no relation with what happened in Japan right? (Aside from a water/quake attack, which is featured in just about every MMO).

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Originally Posted by Exni

Wait, did they really say that was the reason? OT a little: I was wondering where this Moogle King idea came from and what happen to the 'real' primals were sposed to be fighting. I understand and sympathize with the tragedies in Japan, but I don't really get that because Levi and Titan happen to be water and earth element based (something that they've been since.. forever) should dicate that they couldn't be included in the game right now.. They are just pre-existing fictional characters that have no relation with what happened in Japan right? (Aside from a water/quake attack, which is featured in just about every MMO).

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Yes, they did.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/2011/10...-is-out-there/

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Gamer Escape: You mentioned adding things the game needs instead of things that already have a foundation. I was surprised to see the next primal fight, instead of something like Titan or Leviathan, is a Moogle? So the game needs evil Moogles?

Yoshida: We’re not stepping completely away from the foundation because a Garuda battle is coming. It’s in the works. The reason we decided not to go with some stuff that was already out there… I mean because you know in the main story you have the Kobolds and they worship Titan. Why not bring out Titan? Earlier this year in Japan we kind of had a.. big thing happen.. and you release things like that and people start putting them together and say “you’re not thinking”. So we had to think of the rest of the people, maybe even people that weren’t playing the game and say that OK, we’re gonna not do that because we want to respect you guys. So we decided to go away from that even though we had a foundation for that already.

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Of course they are fictional, but in a country hitted by one of the most potent earthquake in the story, would be bad taste releasing mobs which iconic moves are Tsunami and Earthquake...it's not a matter of fictional or not, it's just common sense, not dissimilar to publish a movie on 11 september one moth after disaster

It is very likely to be the reason, as Titan has Dialogue already and cutscenes, which have been datmined (and seen in trailers).

Levithan however was added way after and has non of the above!

I expect Garuda first, then maybe shiva, then levi/titan, could even be a developer favour choosing.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

Of course they are fictional, but in a country hitted by one of the most potent earthquake in the story, would be bad taste releasing mobs which iconic moves are Tsunami and Earthquake...it's not a matter of fictional or not, it's just common sense, not dissimilar to publish a movie on 11 september one moth after disaster

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Hitted? :3 I used to say that we I was little! *flashback-memories*

But yeah, sensitivity is a must.

I understand the postponement of Titan and Leviathan due to the Great East Japan Earthquake, but I don't understand why in-game NPCs are making such a fuss over Ifrit while Titan and Leviathan had already been summoned a few years before and were re-summoned after. There should have been huge talks in Limsa Lominsa about both Titan and Leviathan even before Ifrit.

all primals have been summoned in the past, this article is talking about years ago the primals were summoned and defeated then resummoned, not currently. We dont need to worry about them at the moment because currently they are in slumber where ever they are in primal heaven ready to be summoned again.

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eight summers past

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A handful of years ago

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edit for Nakiamiie post: There have been talks about the other primals in other quests before, so its not like they arent fearful of them coming back.

It looks like they are more concerned with Amalj'aa than Ifrit.

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Originally Posted by Eruantien

all primals have been summoned in the past, this article is talking about years ago the primals were summoned and defeated then resummoned, not currently. We dont need to worry about them at the moment because currently they are in slumber where ever they are in primal heaven ready to be summoned again.





edit for Nakiamiie post: There have been talks about the other primals in other quests before, so its not like they arent fearful of them coming back.

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Thanks! I do try to read all the quest's information, but sometimes I forget it after a while. :S
Makes it harder to keep track of everything that happens in Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

It looks like they are more concerned with Amalj'aa than Ifrit.

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I think that might just be because in a way Ifrit is the Amalj'aa weapon since it is them that summon him to help them. If we were friends with the amalj'aa ifrit wouldn't be an issue. And I guess the sheer number of Amalj'aa there are

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Yes, they did.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/2011/10...-is-out-there/

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Thx for the link. It never occured to me that that would be a potential reason to postpone Titan/Levi, and I still don't get the connection really (the example of a boss that throws planes at buildings was definitly a stretch lol), but I guess it did bother some people or theyda never brought it up. Good2kno.

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Originally Posted by Exni

Thx for the link. It never occured to me that that would be a potential reason to postpone Titan/Levi, and I still don't get the connection really (the example of a boss that throws planes at buildings was definitly a stretch lol), but I guess it did bother some people or theyda never brought it up. Good2kno.

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You really don't get how it would be insensitive to throw in a boss fight who's signature move is causing massive earthquakes and Tsunamis...right after your hometown got hit/wiped out by them?

It's not that it "bothered some people"...it's bad taste to do something like that, much like I'm pretty sure as exampled, during 9/11 they didn't air certain movies that involved the trade center for quite some time.

The Titan and Leviathan Primals are not in "slumber". They were all roughly summoned 8-10 years ago when the Paragons appeared and that's when the Beast tribes became aggressive. Before that they kept to themselves. We don't really see them attacking, but that doesn't mean they aren't at work in their Beastman cities, dictating what the tribes will do. In fact Leviathan we do see, in the LL storyline (but I don't know what will happen to that since Levi got redesigned.)

This new post even says that the Immortal Flames could make a lot of money by helping the other city-states with their current Primal problems, since they have experience with keeping Ifrit at bay. So obviously the Primals DO attack from time to time, and they've been doing it for years. We as players just haven't seen it.

The only Primals who haven't been summoned are for the friendly Beast tribes, like the Sylphs and the Goblins.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

You really don't get how it would be insensitive to throw in a boss fight who's signature move is causing massive earthquakes and Tsunamis...right after your hometown got hit/wiped out by them?

It's not that it "bothered some people"...it's bad taste to do something like that, much like I'm pretty sure as exampled, during 9/11 they didn't air certain movies that involved the trade center for quite some time.

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Aye, a similar example is the film Collateral Damage. It was originally slated to come out Oct. 2001 and it's plot centered on a terrorist attack on American soil.

They also completely cut out a part of the story where one of the terrorists hijacks a plane.

It's just the proper thing to do.

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Originally Posted by Meow_Zedong

The Titan and Leviathan Primals are not in "slumber". They were all roughly summoned 8-10 years ago when the Paragons appeared and that's when the Beast tribes became aggressive. Before that they kept to themselves. We don't really see them attacking, but that doesn't mean they aren't at work in their Beastman cities, dictating what the tribes will do. In fact Leviathan we do see, in the LL storyline (but I don't know what will happen to that since Levi got redesigned.)

This new post even says that the Immortal Flames could make a lot of money by helping the other city-states with their current Primal problems, since they have experience with keeping Ifrit at bay. So obviously the Primals DO attack from time to time, and they've been doing it for years. We as players just haven't seen it.

The only Primals who haven't been summoned are for the friendly Beast tribes, like the Sylphs and the Goblins.

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From all the comments above, not everyone says the same thing. That's why I am confused and would like to clear it up in my mind.

I should have asked everyone already, but where did you got that information? Any NPCs you can remember of?
Not that I don't trust you, but I just want to clear this up. :s
Maybe the community reps can come to our rescue if we are straying too far.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Aye, a similar example is the film Collateral Damage. It was originally slated to come out Oct. 2001 and it's plot centered on a terrorist attack on American soil.

They also completely cut out a part of the story where one of the terrorists hijacks a plane.

It's just the proper thing to do.

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Just like the Spiderman movie that cut the two towers with the web capturing an helicopter.

THREAD DERAILMENT! ACTIVATE!

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Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

Just like the Spiderman movie that cut the two towers with the web capturing an helicopter.

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We also didn't get to see the 22nd episode of Cowboy Bebop during its original run on Cartoon Network, because the plot centered around a terrorist obsessed with blowing up large buildings.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

You really don't get how it would be insensitive to throw in a boss fight who's signature move is causing massive earthquakes and Tsunamis...right after your hometown got hit/wiped out by them?

It's not that it "bothered some people"...it's bad taste to do something like that, much like I'm pretty sure as exampled, during 9/11 they didn't air certain movies that involved the trade center for quite some time.

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No I really don't, not that i have too.. Levi/Titan have been doing earthquakes and Tsunami's for years and years. Did they remove Levi's and Titan's water and quake attacks from XI? Were water/quake abilities removed/postponed for all games coming out of Japan? I just found it odd that this is the only time I heard of it changing gaming development, especially one that was already predefined before the tragedies occured.

And I'm sorry, I don't see airing a movie that features the world trade center or plane hijacking around the time of 9/11 as the same as a video game featuring an imaginary monster that uses water/earth based abilties occuring around the time of an earthquake/tsunami. I, personally, would have NEVER linked the two in the latter case. But, as I said, I don't have to. I don't have a problem with their decision at all, it's just not one I would have naturally considered until it was brought to my attention, as it was in this thread.

Japanese people can't go a single day without hearing about the tsunami. Do you not realize that putting Leviathan casting Tsunami attack would get SE vilified for being as divorced from reality as this forum?

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Originally Posted by Exni

And I'm sorry, I don't see airing a movie that features the world trade center or plane hijacking around the time of 9/11 as the same as a video game featuring an imaginary monster that uses water/earth based abilties occuring around the time of an earthquake/tsunami.

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Think of it that way, it's reversed for the Japanese (not entirely true, but it's for the purpose of helping Exni understand).
How is that?

Back on topic, it was mentioned a company of heroes took down both Titan and Leviathan, do we have NPCs in-game talking about it? Maybe it can help track down the information and put it all together. :D

Well what they say is true, people don't understand things until it happens to them, but some people just plain don't care as well.

Yes, Leviathan has been doing Tsunami for years prior to last year, but you play a video game to take your mind off of troubles and you fight Leviathan in a new MMO that decides:

"Hey, I'm going to cast Tsunami on you and wreck your world, you know, like the Tsunami that wiped out part if not your whole town?"

You don't have to get it, that's fine, but there is a logical and humane reason it was held off. FFXIV is a new MMO and that would have been bad taste to do something like that after one of the worst natural disasters to strike Japan in modern history aside the Atomic Bombings (which weren't natural but still.)

Why would they remove it from FFXI? That's already established content, it wasn't content that would be released ontop of a disaster.

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Originally Posted by Exni

I, personally, would have NEVER linked the two in the latter case.

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Because it didn't happen to you.

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Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

Think of it that way, it's reversed for the Japanese (not entirely true, but it's for the purpose of helping Exni understand).
How is that?

Back on topic, it was mentioned a company of heroes took down both Titan and Leviathan, do we have NPCs in-game talking about it? Maybe it can help track down the information and put it all together. :D

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An interview with a GM said the same. There are some folks from Limsa Lominsa that had something to do with ticking off the moogles too.

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"Hey, I'm going to cast Tsunami on you and wreck your world, you know, like the Tsunami that wiped out part if not your whole town?"

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Or a good chunk of your family?

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

You don't have to get it, that's fine, but there is a logical and humane reason it was held off. FFXIV is a new MMO and that would have been bad taste to do something like that after one of the worst natural disasters to strike Japan in modern history aside the Atomic Bombings (which weren't natural but still.)

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Agreed, with that part.


Why would they remove it from XI? You tell me.. you just argued that you play a video games to take ur mind off your troubles. What difference does it make if you are playing XIV or XI or any other japan-based game? Does a lower quality image of Levi make it better all of a sudden? Btw, I'm not looking for an answer, you were just talking in circles at that point. I get your point that previously released potentially offensive content is OK..

But... the part about it not happening to me is irrelevant. I already said I understand and sympathize with the tragedy, and can actually empathize with the earthquake (as that has been a most unpleasant experience from my childhood). I've said over and over that I didn't get the connection between Levi/Titan to those disasters, not that they weren't tragic. Perhaps if XIV lore has Levi casting a Tsunami over the cities then I have to say yeah, I can see the connection (though Levi is far from reality or a "natural disaster"). I only knew Levi as an avatar that used water elemental based attacks on a group of "adventurers", not devastating whole cities with a Tsunami (although I do see that it's possible they wanted to use Levi and Titan as a part of the lore to do the whole apocalyptic upcoming event -- then decided that was far to close to home). So in conclusion ( I hope... ) depending on where they were wanting to go with the lore, I can understand the connection.

Ugh, why are people so insensitive?
I for one completely understand why SE didn't add the two in. And its cool with me. I am sure if someone made a 9/11 reference in a video game (Or as someone said in that movie) that people would have been pissed.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

An interview with a GM said the same. There are some folks from Limsa Lominsa that had something to do with ticking off the moogles too.

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Oh yes! I was there with the GM when he talked about the moogle problem that is coming.

If that was the same for Titan and Leviathan, the information is still incomplete and that's what confuses me maybe.
I guess I'll ask a time line to the next GM I see...
Hopefully, everything is logged in the newspapers of the Grand Company pages and everything will make sense someday. :S

I think that while 9/11 and the tsunami are both bad occurrences, the 2011 tsunami/earthquake is more comparble to hurricane katrina, and I think a video game that specifically depicted any part of the united states getting hit by a false hurricane would of been insensitive at that time, we did have games and media that were the after effect of the disaster, but whether or not japanese people are offended by that is up to them, we're different cultures we can't compare how americans, or europeans, or anyone else grieves compared to the japanese because we're different, personally I know a lot of Americans make jokes afterwards, its our way of coping, but playing through a game with a similar memory or seeing a show with something similar may effect them in a way we can't judge.

i want odin weaps, lol