DEV Request: Redo Tank & Healer Role Actions

The reason why Tank & Healer balance is way worse in 4.0 than previously is due to the fact that the optional role actions are essential things to Tank/Healer unlike the DPS roles that can survive without any of their optional role skills.

I purpose that you give each job its own version of a required role skills- Example- each healer has a different form of protect, esuna( like we had last time), lucid dreaming( like we previously had). For Tanks- Give WAR its own version of bloodbath, each tank has their version of provoke, give each tank its own form of rampart( like DRK previously had), and give each tank its own form of foresight.

The changes in 4.0 have made me completely leave Tanking ( since I only tank as a DRK) and I'll stay with AST for healing since it was not destroyed like SCH & WHM

Please Devs - don't make the same mistake of 3.0 - to wait a whole expansion to address glaring issues when we were promised that TANK & HEALER roles would be greatly balanced and reworked this expansion.

I encourage to players that are dissatisfied with these changes to not play TANK & HEALER until these matters are addressed. This game cannot progress without us and its about time we take a stand for real change and progress.

Duplicate required role skills would not be necessary - just raise the amount of role skill options to account for the fact that some are indeed required.

Honestly I agree, is it really so bad to have different animations for similar necessary skills? I don't think so it adds flavor to the job.

The cross role is feeling like a excuse for laziness.

What's next adding cure to the role skills because all the healers need a cure?

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

Duplicate required role skills would not be necessary - just raise the amount of role skill options to account for the fact that some are indeed required.

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Or do what you requested at least. But with duplication required skills at least each TANK/HEALER can keep their unique animations. I mean the animations are still in the game- I want to use them so I can still feel like my job.

I can get on board with this, and I can play SMN to at least level SCH to see what changes it might get.

It's incredibly clunky in 4 man content, especially for WHM.

I am happy with the role actions as a dark knight. I think you guys should chill though. You are asking for new abilities and returning abilities to give unique classes, but we are 5 hours into the expac. reworking anything is dead last on their list. I am not saying variety is bad or what not, but what you are asking for is not going to happen. If they made no changes to bard during the last expac they are not going to make any changes now. You will have to wait til next expac.

Why does PLD still have it's stun built in but DRK and WAR got theirs removed

I'm a White Mage, and I used all five of my Role abilities getting back five of the seven abilities I lost.

...Now why is it my reaction to a new expansion resembles an AA meeting?

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Originally Posted by Derio

Why does PLD still have it's stun built in but DRK and WAR got theirs removed

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Makes more sense for a pld to use its shield to stun than their foot. Also shield bash does damage while low blow does none. Shield bash is also on GCD.

They definitely didn't really think this through. You're absolutely right in that a lot of the healer/tank role actions are essential, but the way it's structured now you are granted the illusion of choice.
As someone else mentioned, you can give the tank/healer roles additional role action slots, so that you're not restricted due to 4/5 spots being necessities to begin with.
Not sure giving each job uniquely named, but similar skills, would be the right course of action. Seems like a step backwards in what SE is trying to accomplish.

Either way, something needs to be adjusted imo.

As a PLD (built in stun), the only ones I feel like I HAVE to have are provoke and rampart, everything else can be used based on preference or the specific fight. It doesn't seem that bad to me.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Why does PLD still have it's stun built in but DRK and WAR got theirs removed

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To stop DPS and Tanks from using oGCD stuns solely for the purpose of the 100 potency DPS and not for the CC.

Though with DRK it would be nice to be compensated for the loss of damage dealing oGCDs, since they took half away and then nerfed DPassenger also. Otherwise only 3 oGCDs left, 1 on a 60sec timer, and the other two can't be doubled weaved without delaying the GCD.

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Originally Posted by Resolute

As a PLD (built in stun), the only ones I feel like I HAVE to have are provoke and rampart, everything else can be used based on preference or the specific fight. It doesn't seem that bad to me.

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I'll put it this way - a better approach would have been to simply make all the Role skills from other Jobs available to your main, whether or not you'd leveled anything else. That is, WHM automatically getting access to cross-class skills from BLM and ACN, and so on and so forth.

I don't necessarily mind that SE took a more ambitious approach, but they mixed it in with their skill-reduction mission in a very lazy and at-times harmful way. As a WHM, which admittedly is picking on a particularly problematic case, I have to spend 3/5 of my slots simply to get back crucial abilities I used to get natively - Protect, Esuna, and Lucid Dream. I also need to spend a fourth for Swiftcast. That leaves me with one remaining choice amongst a collection of mostly-uninspired skills; a greatly weakened Cleric's Stance, a near-totally-useless Break, Eye for an Eye (which has always been too random to be relied upon), Surecast (meh), Rescue (fun for trolling), and Largesse (again, an ability I used to have natively as Divine Seal).

So basically I have 4/5 bound at all times, and swap Cleric's and Largesse around depending on whether or not I'm in a dungeon. And, to boot, at Level 60, I am still less effective than I was in 3.x.

It also says worlds that even optimistic voices such as yours are describing the system as being 'not that bad'. These combat changes should have generated excitement; reactions should have ranged from stoked to neutral, not neutral to angry. SE f*cked it up, badly.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

Duplicate required role skills would not be necessary - just raise the amount of role skill options to account for the fact that some are indeed required.

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Agree 1000%!! Up the slots to at least 8. It feels dumb that I gotta constantly switch the skills I want to use.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Agree 1000%!! Up the slots to at least 8. It feels dumb that I gotta constantly switch the skills I want to use.

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I felt it should be like the old system in 2.x. One slot every 10 levels. At cap thats 7 slots which is reasonably I think.

I'd be happy if they added Flash and Bloodbath to cross role actions. I did Antitower today for a FC mate and I'd say Flash was really useful in that dungeon due to adds spawning while you're tanking trash already. It's possible to save Steel Cyclone/Decimate for it, but if I have the gauge, normally I'm going to use it. And Rampart is highly inferior to Bloodbath for trash, especially for large pulls (Decimate is really good paired with Bloodbath and Berserk).

Get over you're selfs, they work just the same!

I dunno about healer. I've only been on my tank so far.
But most of them are not necessary.

If you ever need provoke or the AoE provoke it's because you don't know how to tank. Shirk is likely the same.
Needed: low blow. And maybe 2-3 damage mitigation abilities. That leaves 1-2 options beyond that that are filled by... well... there's nothing vital left.