New stat weights

Just read the patch notes for 4.0

- Critical hit is getting a nerf in damage potency

- Effects of determination are increasing

- Tenacity increases damage, healing, and reduces damage taken

- Skill speed now affects auto attacks.


What do we think? DET + TEN ? And skill speed may be viable on PLDs because of the way sword oath functions.

Crit is probably just resetting. Starting out at say 10% instead of the BiS 30% or whatever we are at now.

You can't know the stat weights until people have done some testing. It takes hours and hours of experimenting on dummies and number crunching. Even if det is getting boosted, it's still linear, unlike crit (quadratic) or sks (inverse linear), so there may still be a viable breaking point where crit/sks surpass det. Just focus on levelling and getting the highest ilv gear you can get while the theorycrafters figure out the new formula and weights. Right now no one knows what's better or worse.

You're probably right. Says crit's base potency modifier has been reduced.

Dont fprget about "Direct Hit" which seems to run in tangent with det/crit amounts, abd oretty much is accuracy 2....

Pretty sure Direct Hit is only on DPS equipment, so kinda inconsequential to us tanks.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Pretty sure Direct Hit is only on DPS equipment, so kinda inconsequential to us tanks.

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That sounds good to me...the patch notes example seemed kind of confusing.

I believe Piety is only on healers, Tenacity is only on tanks, and Direct Hit only on DPS.

Probably you can access them with melds, but you'd get so little I dunno if it's worth it unless it gives you something like one extra cast or DA or something like that.

considering paladin gets oath gague filled from AA in sword, it might be a good idea to stack Skill speed. it would also help with goring blade's duration nerf as well for upkeep.

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Originally Posted by eagledorf

I believe Piety is only on healers, Tenacity is only on tanks, and Direct Hit only on DPS.

Probably you can access them with melds, but you'd get so little I dunno if it's worth it unless it gives you something like one extra cast or DA or something like that.

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actually direct hit is on tank as well, don't know about healer but the direct hit damage on dps is higher than on tanks
tank probably got 20% direct hit while dps got the 30% one

That's not quite correct. All stats are available on Tanks (even though you will require materia to increase Piety, and it's unknown why someone would even want to do that). The only class-specific stat now is Tenacity, which applies *only* to tanks.

Direct Hit is what Accuracy used to be, so in the same way that gear used to hold Accuracy (and some tank gear did), that same gear should hold Direct Hit now.

Tanks have 7(?) damage stats:
Vitality? - Changes max HP (and thus also HP/sec regeneration), damage effects unknown ("The calculation for attack power of jobs designated as tanks has been adjusted." is vague.). We still seem locked into using VIT accessories by class though, and since we can't exactly pick stats anymore...
Strength - Changes base damage. No change.
Determination - Changes base damage. Buffed.
Skill speed - Changes autoattack speeds, GCD speed. No change to D, but changes DPS by changing the 'PS' part. Feeds both Sword Oath and the Warrior Deliverance/Defiance mechanics, which are based on number of activations, rather than damage. Buffed as it didn't affect AAs in the past, and Sword Oath didn't use to get benefits from this.
Critical rate - Triggers Critical-based skills, increases damage. No change to critical hit probabilities, but nerf in critical hit 'potency'. So if you used to critical hit 30% of the time you still will critical hit 30% of the time, but if the increase used to be +42% damage for a critical hit, it will now be a smaller modifier of a currently-unknown value. Nerfed.
Direct hit - Non-direct hits deal reduced damage and thus reduce DPS in the same way misses used to, but unlike misses, non-direct hits still trigger combo advancement, etc. So your rotation won't be screwed, you'll only take a damage hit. It's no longer compulsory to 'maximise accuracy' as it's basically 100% now. New factor to damage.
Tenacity - Reduces damage taken (like armor), adds damage and increases healing received. Greatly buffed, parry was basically useless in the past.

Since Tenacity also has Tank-specific effects, we can essentially be quite certain that Tenacity is a relatively defensive stat and will not contribute as much DPS as any other stat (or else it would be broken beyond belief).
Critical hit rate is likely still your go-to if your skills require a critical hit to activate any effects, but its pure DPS effects will likely be inferior to Det to compensate for its benefit on procs - which may make it iffy on tanks, which don't have crit-triggered skills.
Determination is probably going to be the 'linear' DPS stat.
Direct Hit will probably have diminishing returns, but be stronger at lower numbers, but this is pure speculation.

While the exact values are unknown for now, the idea of Str > [Crit, Det, SkS, DH] > Ten from a DPS perspective will almost certainly hold.
In particular, if the balancing team is doing their job properly, damage should probably be Det > Crit > SkS, where DH's effectiveness starts out superior to Det at lower numbers and ends up inferior to Crit at higher numbers.
In general tanks will probably get enough SkS to meet a cooldown breakpoint first, then buff Det, then buff DH. Warriors will get more out of Crit than the other two as Deliverance's +crit% ability will stack with increased crit potency from the crit stat. Paladins will get more out of SkS than the other two as Sword Oath applies from autoattacks.

Vitality is just hp now, no damage

We're back to STR alone determining ATK power.

Also I have seen nothing else but your post saying tank stance alters direct hit.

Rechecked, the acc effects were removed from stances, so what I typed earlier was wrong. Still not enough info about the VIT thing, so I'll leave it in ? for now. Earlier post has been edited.

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Originally Posted by Mikazuki_Aura

Rechecked, the acc effects were removed from stances, so what I typed earlier was wrong. Still not enough info about the VIT thing, so I'll leave it in ? for now. Earlier post has been edited.

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It said in the Patchnotes and i´m pretty sure it says ingame too with VIT not giving us dmg anymore

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Originally Posted by Baci

It said in the Patchnotes and i´m pretty sure it says ingame too with VIT not giving us dmg anymore

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Correct on both counts. Your ATK power is exactly the same as your strength.

.5 second on the "C" screen can show you that.

With STR being the main damage stat now...how is direct STR slotting going match up to straight DET? Not being able to equip maiming accessories means things like grade 6 STR materias are likely to be a big thing for accessory slotting? +25 STR vs +40 DET for that single slot (not including crafted stuff) since that's the only spot available for them.

Number crunching around things like DET builds vs STR/TEN builds will hopefully be a thing since I'm quite curious to see what the number differences are like between the 3 damage stats...Tenacity looks extremely promising giving it replaced parry and that was an utterly useless stat. Crit will probably always be a bigwig stat, but Direct Hit's presences adds a new layer to that relationship as well...

Strength has always been worth way more than secondaries, it's highly unlikely that's changed.

Going from the 1/2 str 1/2 vit damage calculation back to strength only puts tanks in the hilarious position that the i270 Heavensward slaying accessories are their best DPS option in this expansion. You'll get more strength that way than anything you can get in Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Rbstr

Strength has always been worth way more than secondaries, it's highly unlikely that's changed.

Going from the 1/2 str 1/2 vit damage calculation back to strength only puts tanks in the hilarious position that the i270 Heavensward slaying accessories are their best DPS option in this expansion. You'll get more strength that way than anything you can get in Stormblood.

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I also noted, that the i270 slaying gear only gives you ~80% of the strengh listed on the gear. Just test it yourself. I think this is intentional. If to many people use this gear, they will likely penalise it even more.

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Originally Posted by YokeM

I also noted, that the i270 slaying gear only gives you ~80% of the strengh listed on the gear. Just test it yourself. I think this is intentional. If to many people use this gear, they will likely penalise it even more.

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I put on a piece of i270 slaying gear and it gave me 100% of the STR on it.

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Originally Posted by Mikazuki_Aura

That's not quite correct. All stats are available on Tanks (even though you will require materia to increase Piety, and it's unknown why someone would even want to do that). The only class-specific stat now is Tenacity, which applies *only* to tanks.

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Piety only effects healers thats why Tenacity and Piety is under the tab "Role"

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Pretty sure Direct Hit is only on DPS equipment, so kinda inconsequential to us tanks.

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But you can still meld it. Idk about you but hitting 12.5k direct crits (lvl 69 atm) with berserk FC seems pretty good. If you can stack that into the 6 FC rotation at lvl 70, when that dmg is just gonna get higher than I think we might be on to something. It's also works for Inner Beast and the highest I've hit was 8.2k. That's an 8.2 k which is the equivalent to an Equilibrium. Tenacity seems more like PLD will benefit more from it since the recent buff will most likely secure their place as the king of mitigation in 4.0.

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Originally Posted by Cersia

I put on a piece of i270 slaying gear and it gave me 100% of the STR on it.

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Thats strange. I will test this a second time later, maybe I made a mistake.

EDIT: Ahh how dumb. I had, of course, STR melded VIT gear equiped first.

From what I saw when I was rebuilding hotbars for my PLD during EA (don't have xpac yet waiting till payday) my one i270 ring had 57 Tenacity on it & temp-removing it dropped my DEF/MDEF by 1 so I assume its roughly 50 Tenacity equalls 1 point of DEF/MDEF (& probably around same in DMG as it affects that too)

Dont' see Tenacity being too good unless u stack a crap ton (Like its on each gear slot giving around 60-ish each) as at end-game 1 eaxtra point of DEF/MDEF isn't much, its something thou which makes it better than what it replaced (Parry)

Tenacity is a plain copy of Versatility from warcraft. Does exactly the same thing. Scales lower than any other primary/secondary stat but shines at 20% or higher. That is if Tenacity scales that high.

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Originally Posted by The_NPC

From what I saw when I was rebuilding hotbars for my PLD during EA (don't have xpac yet waiting till payday) my one i270 ring had 57 Tenacity on it & temp-removing it dropped my DEF/MDEF by 1 so I assume its roughly 50 Tenacity equalls 1 point of DEF/MDEF (& probably around same in DMG as it affects that too)

Dont' see Tenacity being too good unless u stack a crap ton (Like its on each gear slot giving around 60-ish each) as at end-game 1 eaxtra point of DEF/MDEF isn't much, its something thou which makes it better than what it replaced (Parry)

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Just wanted to say that your DEF/MDEF probably dropped by 1 because the i270 accessories give +1 DEF/MDEF.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

But you can still meld it. Idk about you but hitting 12.5k direct crits (lvl 69 atm) with berserk FC seems pretty good. If you can stack that into the 6 FC rotation at lvl 70, when that dmg is just gonna get higher than I think we might be on to something. It's also works for Inner Beast and the highest I've hit was 8.2k. That's an 8.2 k which is the equivalent to an Equilibrium. Tenacity seems more like PLD will benefit more from it since the recent buff will most likely secure their place as the king of mitigation in 4.0.

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As a PLD, I have been doing TEN > DHit > DET. My Direct Hit is in the first half of the 400 range, but I can now take more hots, that even a fresh healer won't panic.

This might change once I start getting Tome gear. I'm currently wearing Lv70 AF with non-Lv70 accessories. But then again, I always preferred mitigation > dps on my PLD, so it works out well.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

As a PLD, I have been doing TEN > DHit > DET. My Direct Hit is in the first half of the 400 range, but I can now take more hots, that even a fresh healer won't panic.

This might change once I start getting Tome gear. I'm currently wearing Lv70 AF with non-Lv70 accessories. But then again, I always preferred mitigation > dps on my PLD, so it works out well.

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Based on preliminary testing, I don't think Tenacity is worth it.

http://i.imgur.com/970xcf3.png

That being said, it could change when Omega comes it.

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

Based on preliminary testing, I don't think Tenacity is worth it.

http://i.imgur.com/970xcf3.png

That being said, it could change when Omega comes it.

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Direct hit seems to have a flat 25% damage increase when it procs, regardless of how much you increase your stat, and Dervy's tests seem to suggest that the proc rate scales at around 1.8% (0% at base value) per 100 points, so that's around 0.45% overall dps increase per 100 points, based on your dps at 0% direct hit rate. If we take this value (also note that base value of direct hit point is 364) and compare the dps increase between 800 direct hit (1+4.36*0.0045) vs 1100 direct hit (1+7.36*0.0045) we'll get around 1.3% dps increase, which seems to suggest that it scales slower than det.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm dumb when it comes to arithmetic.

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Originally Posted by The_NPC

Dont' see Tenacity being too good unless u stack a crap ton

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Quite the contrary, if it works like det, and possibly direct hit (linear scaling), it will have diminishing returns since it scales based on your base dps at 0 additional tenacity. The only secondary stats that don't suffer from this are crit and skill/spell spd (at least the ones we know thus far), even main stats scale linearly.


Edit: On a random note wearing full slaying lv 60 right side is a really huge boost to tank dps right now, at the cost of around 12k hp. Not very practical to wear them in lv 70 contents but the dps difference on dummies is quite amusing.

I've been working on a study of Skill Speed. figuring out progression for each level. There are a number of points to be made from this.

Skill Speed is the one stat we can see effect in the game.
What I have observed is with each level. the ungeared base has increased by 1 point.
The next point is this. The base stat is not the starting point. It is not Zero. For skill speed, I was able to determine the first point of shift.
based on the first shift, I can find the second shift.

lvl 70
Base: 364
1st Shift: 381
2nd Shift: 448
.01s = 67 after 381

GCD = 2.50 - rounddown((((SKS-381)/0.01)+0.01);2)

my theory is that everything else uses a similar formula. so 1% would occur at 381 stat level. and every 67 points would be another 1%. so each point is equal to 0.014925373134284~% with a 1377 critical hit, I should have a 14.88% critical hit chance. This is against a target at level 70. targets above or below level 70 alter these percent.

percent = (((STAT - 381)*(0.01/67) +0.01)*100

I'm not sure on DET, as it starts at a lower base.

The only thing I know that is wrong is that 364 is not zero. 314 is zero.

Well, direct hit can be found on tank gear.....old tank gear since it replaced accuracy.

The only way we will get it is via melding it appears, I've yet to see it on a single piece of new tank gear.

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Originally Posted by Bloodaxe

Just wanted to say that your DEF/MDEF probably dropped by 1 because the i270 accessories give +1 DEF/MDEF.

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k wasn't paying attention to if the acc actually gave stats, due remember HQ gear doing that but never checked if Tome gear did. As for the Stat itself I'm no number cruncher skilled with math so I haven't relly noticed anything yet thou I also haven't got to a lv were I need new gear