give what I seen of 4.0 the devs need a new way introduce new jobs after stormblood.
for example one couldn't introduce job after red mage and samuria with out tweak the armory system. it look promising give there is general fear of new things including new game machines.
system like trinity system also necessary i play many mmos and they seem return to the trinity because they system of tried run for it doesn't work.
The necessary evil of ffxiv
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06-09-2017, 11:25 AMSavagelfThe necessary evil of ffxiv
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06-09-2017, 11:35 AMReiryuuYou do realize we're getting 10 slots in the armory chest on all tabs initially and supposedly another 10 sometime after once they check to make sure servers are stable and all?Quote:
Originally Posted by Savagelf
Other than that, I'm not quite sure what the problem you're trying to say is exactly. More jobs? Yeah, I'd love more. New kinds of jobs (support/enhance/debuff)? Unlikely, but I would be for it. -
06-09-2017, 11:50 AMSenorPatty
The necessary evil
The necessary evil
Good god /facepalm -
06-10-2017, 04:50 AMSavagelf
Is bard not support/range dps
Is not machanist not support/range dps
is not the dragoon with his debuff an damage dealing melee/debuffer
or how about summoner with her range magic debuff or dots is she not debuffers. -
06-10-2017, 04:52 AMAbriaelQuote:
Originally Posted by Savagelf
What did I just read? -
06-10-2017, 05:03 AMZephanoa
The problem with new jobs is the amount of Dev time involved (currently.) Consider this, they decide to introduce BLU (Blue Mage). They would have to ensure all of the content both past and present work for inserting this job, and making the gameplay interesting and unique at the same time. The last time they inserted a job was Ninja, and from what I have gathered that was the last time they wanted to do something like that mid-patch cycle.
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06-10-2017, 05:09 AMSavagelf
my view point on inserted mid-patch cycle is this one must pre planned it. for example say they going add blu red mage and samuria for start of ffxiv stormblood they could content done for blu mage at very start of patch cycle this way it could be add in more smoothly. my view is the armory system has almost impossible to add such job in future expansion like stormblood as pre 4.0 it hard time for the dev to balance all the jobs out by switch how jobs role are it easy to decide for example if a dev decide to add beast master what role it would be in
would be a ranger dps, melee dps or anything else for example -
06-10-2017, 05:20 AMClethoriaI don't get itQuote:
Originally Posted by SenorPatty
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06-10-2017, 06:18 AMDraxxion
The issue with more jobs comes into play only in the comparative raid scene. There we are talking FCs wanting world firsts, etc. They are only going to bring certain jobs because they want to have that 1% extra umph to their run. For us regular folks it shouldn't matter, so long as the job is fun and can do the content. We should not worry about one job under performing so long as it isn't glaringly so.
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06-10-2017, 06:26 AMDraxxionTyping this from a phone. Meant competitive. Can't edit the original post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Draxxion
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06-10-2017, 06:56 AMViduIf its any comfort you cant be competitive without being comparative!Quote:
Originally Posted by Draxxion
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06-10-2017, 09:21 PMSavagelf
i have writing disability so type on computer isn't my stronger suit. i have a habit form sentence in my mind and when come to put them on screen i skip words.
my view is that balance jobs can be quite hard in a mmo it good to find set system make more able to introduce jobs. armory need some tweak so it could be done. -
06-10-2017, 09:27 PMViduAnd why are you making that point? Dont you think that the devs are well aware about jobs being difficult to balance? And that they're going to be very careful about which and how they introduce new jobs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Savagelf
As already pointed out aswell: We're getting more armory-slots, so if you're whole point was "They cant make more jobs because there isnt space in the armory": They're way ahead of you and very well aware of that problem. So they're fixing it with SB.
I get why you are concerend, but whats the point behind all this? Asking SE not to introduce anymore new jobs? Because they cant possibly get the balance right and make more slots in our armory? -
06-11-2017, 12:17 AMSilverquickWell you're not completely wrong but honestly even in this game a lot of things.... that worked i previous games are not the same... and the Trinity was not always the trinity...Quote:
Originally Posted by Savagelf
EXAMPLE: FFXIV vs FFXI
The entire base layer of the game is different... and how it plays... its why this game can NEVER and ever will be like FFXI.
Mobs in FFXI were so strong that it took a team of 6 just to bring ONE down... so you couldn't handle any more than ONE at a time. Basically it was like fighting back to back boss mobs chained togather... using skill chains and magic bursts to defeat them.
AoE Crowd control like Sleep and Mez were important... because the mobs were too strong for any one player, and the Tank could only hold one at a time anyway. And 3 mobs on the tank meant dead tank... regardless of how good the healing was. Forget any AoE damage, because even if you used it, the mobs were so strong it wouldn't even shave off a sliver of health, or rather could not and never would do enough damage to ever bring them down before the Tank died. Also... MP regen was incredibly slow. So it could take upwards of a good half hour or more before your MP would refill without some kind of MP regen... hence Bards and Red Mages had an MP regen buff allowing casters to regen their MP in 5 minutes vs the full 30 minutes it would have taken prior. THUS creating a NEED for those support classes that weren't healers. You needed crowd control, not AoE damage or you were screwed.
That is where the holy trinity came about is in games based on on this model of the SUPER STRONG trash mob ideal. This whole setup required the same kind of team play for EVERY mob that you only see in Boss Mobs in FFXIV.
FFXIV... totally different. Trash mobs are weak... the Tank can hold off a full horde of them... and keep agro on all of them. Only the boss mobs really have the capability of doing any real damage... (Much like the trash mobs of FFXI). So... AoE damage that was worthless and useless in FFXI now becomes the standard for Trash mobs... and AoE Sleep and AoE mez are relegated to second class status and unused or unneeded. AoE damage now becomes the de facto crowd control... and burning the mobs down fast is the way it works.
MP regen is extremely fast... so no more medding for a half hour to get it back... and no more need for MP regen either. So no more need for the Support class the way FFXI needed them. No more down time... meant no more need for support classes or jobs.
DPS now becomes important... and it gets divided into two different types... the Single Target damage for boss mobs and single target encounters (which in FFXI was your only damage)... and AoE DPS which now takes the place of the old versions of Crowd Control in FFXI.
In one turn...
What in the previous game was a serious need for Support Classes like the Red Mage and Bard... became no longer needed... so now the model which used to be Tank>Healer>Support>DPS.... becomes Tank>Healer>DPS... with no real need anymore for support classes.