SE: Why Are Gathering Bots Okay??

There is a FC on Leviathan, <<LOS>>, of nothing but gathering bots.

I know that personally, I have reported one of the bots at least three separate times.

My whole server knows this FC is nothing but gathering bots.

Why is this okay? Should all players utilize gathering bots? Report after report is ignored, so gathering bots and market exploitation is acceptable by TOS?

Getting a bit fed up of seeing them as well. I reported the first few I seen, but I've given up. The report process is such a chore as well. It's like I have to build a case and present it to them to draw there attention to it. When I should only be the one drawing there attention and them building a case.

Reporting a gil seller at the mb is really simple, and I still do that.

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Originally Posted by Berilein

The report process is such a chore as well. It's like I have to build a case and present it to them to draw there attention to it. When I should only be the one drawing there attention and them building a case.

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If it was effortless, then 90% of the reported bots would turn out to not be bots at all. Bots are harder to differentiate from legit gatherers nowadays. They don't teleport between nodes, hide underground, or have awkward robotic motion. The only way to see that they're bots is by watching them follow the same route for 20+ hours/day.

Edit your post and remove any identifying info of the accused. It's against the rules, even if they are doing what is alleged.

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Originally Posted by Alyx

Why is this okay?

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Because they pay a sub? Because SE has no bot detection? Because the STF can't tell the difference between bots and regular players and doesn't want to risk punishing the latter? Because SE can't be bothered? Take your pick. Notice the fix for Feast toxicity was removal of chat?

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Originally Posted by Alyx

Should all players utilize gathering bots?

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DISCLAIMER: Use of botting programs is against the ToS
If more bots means SE will finally do something about them, then sure, otherwise it'll just make the problem worse.

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Originally Posted by Alyx

Report after report is ignored, so gathering bots and market exploitation is acceptable by TOS?

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No, it's clearly against the ToS; they just aren't enforcing it unless the player is hacking the game or is involved in RMT. If the bots are just automating gameplay, the worst that will happen is a temp ban, but since the same players have been botting for months at least, it's obvious SE can't detect the bots being used.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Bots are harder to differentiate from legit gatherers nowadays.

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Nope: https://gfycat.com/UncommonAcidicAmericankestrel

The bots that are used in HW gathering areas stick out like sore thumbs because they all move to the same spot for takeoff after zoning in.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

Nope: https://gfycat.com/UncommonAcidicAmericankestrel

The bots that are used in HW gathering areas stick out like sore thumbs because they all move to the same spot for takeoff after zoning in.

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That's much less obvious than clearing a node, then teleporting 10 feet above the next node and falling on it. Or underground warping from node to node.

Bots warping to OOB locations takes about 2 seconds to recognize and 5 seconds to investigate. Bots retreading a set route takes a little more time for both, and when you come up with a fast way to detect it, someone will just rework the code to bypass your catch.

From a master crafter/gatherer bias I would encourage you to see the glass half full and not half empty. The bots keep allot of useful mat prices low for leveling crafters and actually keep the economy from skyrocketing like on smaller servers. Gil's sellers can get cancer for all I care, but the gathering bots don't spam your chat box and don't personally bother anyone. I say ignore em. Enjoy the game. \o/

I'm in Levi as well, I'm going to have too look at these bots, I never realized they were bots

From a master crafter/gatherer bias I would encourage you to see the glass half full and not half empty. The bots keep allot of useful mat prices low for leveling crafters and actually keep the economy from skyrocketing like on smaller servers. Gil's sellers can get cancer for all I care, but the gathering bots don't spam your chat box and don't personally bother anyone. I say ignore em. Enjoy the game. \o/

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Originally Posted by Dre777

From a master crafter/gatherer bias I would encourage you to see the glass half full and not half empty. The bots keep allot of useful mat prices low for leveling crafters and actually keep the economy from skyrocketing like on smaller servers. Gil's sellers can get cancer for all I care, but the gathering bots don't spam your chat box and don't personally bother anyone. I say ignore em. Enjoy the game. \o/

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Are you condoning botting because it allows you to buy cheap materials? Seriously?
The bots often times ARE THE GIL SELLERS...where do you think they get the gil? Just one of many sources of gil I'm sure - but if you think it is only little private account cheater Billy Bob using a gathering bot, I am willing to bet you are very wrong.

As a Master Crafter/Gatherer i cannot see why ANYONE would condone Bots in any form. My server has a FC of bots as well and it's infuriating. Of all the bots I have reported i have only noticed one being gone. The main one that spends all day and night farming up the Mats to make Ironworks Gear, which i learned was his pattern b/c i was also farming those mats, is still running around free as a bird and VERY obviously a bot. Seeing as the market is not Flooded with Ironworks Gear this i can be assured that this is some of the gear they are selling to people on RMT sites.

On the topic of "It makes mats cheaper" you are not smart for this idea b/c as a gather/crafter that spent much real time and effort to get the skill to make and gather all this stuff you are now being undercut but a bot that put no real time or effort into gathering/crafting. You lose money b/c of bots you do not save money.

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Originally Posted by Dre777

From a master crafter/gatherer bias I would encourage you to see the glass half full and not half empty. The bots keep allot of useful mat prices low for leveling crafters and actually keep the economy from skyrocketing like on smaller servers. Gil's sellers can get cancer for all I care, but the gathering bots don't spam your chat box and don't personally bother anyone. I say ignore em. Enjoy the game. \o/

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Really? You realise that these bots make it more or less impossible for actual DoLs to be competitive on the market for many types of items, especially shards?

Balmung has a ton of bots as well, to the point where legitimate players cannot make a noticeable profit on many items. The Ironworks market is absolutely hilarious, with the MB having hundreds of items listed, at 180k a piece max. The best part is, they're all posted and crafted by the same people who have been crafting these items for months.

https://image.prntscr.com/image/9f0f...d12a2d045d.png

Every single one is crafted by the same person. Absolutely none of the crafters I know bothers selling Ironworks anymore because they know the bots have the entire market. The same people gathering have been going around gathering and very obviously botting for well over a year now, since I started seriously gathering and crafting. I'd wager that almost every gatherer I see is a bot or is botting at least part of the time. They go to the same nodes (usually ones that have Ironworks-related materials - crystallized sap, lumythrite ore, smithsonite ore, etc).

There is absolutely no reason to condone this behavior, and if you played on a server as big as Balmung, you would see why. It is actively hurting the ability of crafters and gatherers to play the game they want to, to play the game the way it was meant to for DoH/L.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

It is actively hurting the ability of crafters and gatherers to play the game they want to, to play the game the way it was meant to for DoH/L.

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I think if the market board has any bearing on the ability of crafters and gatherers to play the game the way it's meant to be, then the issue lies in the way it's meant to be, not in the market board.

If making profit is the defining feature of DoH/DoL, then these classes need to be removed from the game ASAP, because it means they can only function by being unpopular (since popularity means competition and would have the same effect on prices as bots). That's a huge, glaring design flaw. Abandon ship, back to the drawing board, these classes are a conceptual failure.

That argument only argues in favor of DoH/DoL removal, not against bots.
The argument against bots is that users of such gain an illegitimate advantage over others. It's the same as wintrading in PvP or even botted wintrading, speed- or other hacks to make PvE easier (which even benefit the other people in the group), exploiting bugs and other, similar activities. It's unfair, plain and simple. Profits don't matter.

So we're going to argue that the point of crafting items in a game with a Marketboard and trading system is not to make gil or be somehow compensated for your time, and the first proposed solution is to delete all non-combat classes because ..... your opinion of "the defining feature of DoH/DoL" isn't the same as someone else's opinion that selling items on the MB is how the classes are meant to be? If you're going to call someone else wrong, the least you could do is also tell them the right answer. Unless it's subjective, and you just got ruffled because the way Elamys stated it could sound objective to some people who have a hard time telling the difference.
I think (note: an opinion) that the defining feature of them is gathering and crafting items. A bit of a simple view isn't it? The way a class is meant to be played, is defined by what it CAN do. But crafting and gathering on their own are 100% pointless. So then what? You have 3 choices:
1) Use it
2) Sell it
3) Dispose of it for nothing
In a supply and demand economy, it's not too hard to see which option bots can monopolize, forcing legitimate players into the other 2 options as the compensation for their time dwindles.

A better (although still asinine) suggestion would be to eliminate all trading systems in the game. Make all items bind on acquire. Crafters and gatherers can still do all the other things they like to do with the 100% unquestionable raison d'etre of being self-sufficient, as there are no other options.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

If making profit is the defining feature of DoH/DoL, then these classes need to be removed from the game ASAP.

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There is literally nothing else for crafters to do with the things they make. As stated, it's either use it yourself, sell it on the marketboard, or dispose of it. The only other actual CONTENT crafters have is scrips (which are used to get materials and items for, you guess it, more crafting) and the custom deliveries, which is basically scrips with a storyline. Crafters exist in almost every MMO, their purpose is to supply non-crafters with items they need, which, yes, is done on the marketboard by and large.

I got back to the game a few days ago. Saw the same botter i always saw and more. And it seems the DEVs still don't bother. I hope the gathering will be made easier (more output or something) so we don't have to buy from botters anymore on the MB and waste less time on gathering.
I wonder if SE is selling bots :D. They could sell them on the mogstation though :/. Everyone would profit :D. Can't bots just be made legit pls? Kappa

On Ragnarok, we have legion of bot / RMT farmers.
They are all well know, reported many times by many players, but they are still roaming around, spamming the MB with full stack of about everything.