In Regards to 4.0 AST

So, I've been playing nothing but AST since early access, but I currently see no justification for some of our most recent buffs.

Just so everyone is aware of what I'm talking about, this video will be my reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKak8KZkgqg

The first encountered buff I'd like to mention is the +15% Healing Potency granted to both Diurnal and Nocturnal Sect. Such a buff could be justified if we were seeing a major nerf to our healing potencies, but instead we see the opposite in later skills.

Mainly, a small increase in Aspected Benefics base heal potency, and a barrier equaling 300% of the HP restored. This one in particular seemed jarring, because this kind of overbuffing is essentially removing SCHs relevancy as a mitigation healer. And this ability can still crit for higher healing.

Earthly Star is easily replacing one of WHMs core skills, Assize, there's nothing further to say on this skill. It's a ridiculous powerhouse no matter how you look at it, and when I first heard the description I was expecting something much longer than a 60 second cooldown.

Furthermore, we've received buffs to both Spire and Ewer.

I have been a strong advocate for buffing AST ever since release, to the point where I've been banned for certain strong exchanges with other users asking for AST nerfs. We were perfectly fine with the latest round of buffs, if anything, I would've loved for them to only give us Card-based skills in the expansion, I simply can't justify what we've seen at this rate, and I'd prefer the other healers remain strong choices.

I honestly thought they'd remove the sect bonuses in an effort to reign AST in after the recent string of overbuffing, not double down on it.

I am glad i'm not the only AST main to think that !
Potencies are just so big that I start to think that this is a "test build" with old numbers.
Lord/Lady, and buffs to ewer/spires are welcome, but the sects bonuses and the potency of earthly star? No, keep it away SE please, I don't want it, it's not healthy for the game.

I just have to ask in case I missed anything but did they even give a reason for why AST sect's have the healing buffs? Kinda doesn't make sense if WHM is meant to be the "power healer".

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Originally Posted by Snat

I just have to ask in case I missed anything but did they even give a reason for why AST sect's have the healing buffs? Kinda doesn't make sense if WHM is meant to be the "power healer".

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I take it they were trying to make the stances less confusing by changing the effects to be the same, I'm unaware as to why they would increase the potency on Noct from 10% to 15% though.

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Originally Posted by Snat

I just have to ask in case I missed anything but did they even give a reason for why AST sect's have the healing buffs? Kinda doesn't make sense if WHM is meant to be the "power healer".

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Probably because when AST launched they had lower potencies and the sects made up for it. Then they never got removed during the buffs they got.

As much as it pains me to say this, my worst fears are actually happening, as much as I hoped it would never reach this point.

(Context: I actually argued with you on a topic like this 2-3 months ago, through like five pages.)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...34#post4064834

So if the videos are correct, Noct stance aspected benefic heals for 200 potency and gives a 300% heal shield, whereas SCH's adlo heals for 300 potency and gives a 100% shield that doubles if it crits.

...Doesn't that mean Noct AST is casting almost the equivalent effect of a SCH crit shield every single time? So AST shields will on standard be better than adloquium unless adlo crits? And this neglects Noct's +15% healing potency stance effect and their stronger potency and effects for their AoE shields.

Hmm... Maybe I should consider switching to an AST main after all.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

As much as it pains me to say this, my worst fears are actually happening, as much as I hoped it would never reach this point.

(Context: I actually argued with you on a topic like this 2-3 months ago, through like five pages.)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...34#post4064834

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I absolutely 130% stand by my position on Cards. Heal potencies are another topic.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

So if the videos are correct, Noct stance aspected benefic heals for 200 potency and gives a 300% heal shield, whereas SCH's adlo heals for 300 potency and gives a 100% shield that doubles if it crits.

...Doesn't that mean Noct AST is casting almost the equivalent effect of a SCH crit shield every single time? So AST shields will on standard be better than adloquium unless adlo crits? And this neglects Noct's +15% healing potency stance effect and their stronger potency and effects for their AoE shields.

Hmm... Maybe I should consider switching to an AST main after all.

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They also get the 15% heal buff so I think noct shields are stronger than crit adlos. Given that, and while sch isn't in a bad position, I do wonder if the meta goes AST/AST in 4.0.

So what role actions do we choose..... :confused:

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

They also get the 15% heal buff so I think noct shields are stronger than crit adlos. Given that, and while sch isn't in a bad position, I do wonder if the meta goes AST/AST in 4.0.

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I'm really not liking what I'm seeing. Reduced to only two dots and a 60 second cooldown on shadowflare makes DPS as godawful boring as can be, and shielding mechanics that AST can technically do as well if not better. If WHM wasn't in such a questionable state I would fear for SCH's place, but then the crit debuff is probably going to keep us around anyway.

Still, this is getting awfully homogenized. I suspect I might need to start drawing cards just for something to do.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

So if the videos are correct, Noct stance aspected benefic heals for 200 potency and gives a 300% heal shield, whereas SCH's adlo heals for 300 potency and gives a 100% shield that doubles if it crits.

...Doesn't that mean Noct AST is casting almost the equivalent effect of a SCH crit shield every single time? So AST shields will on standard be better than adloquium unless adlo crits? And this neglects Noct's +15% healing potency stance effect and their stronger potency and effects for their AoE shields.

Hmm... Maybe I should consider switching to an AST main after all.

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Yep that's why I think Astrologian will take his place. White Mage will be the main healer.
All will depend of the fairy, if it will be nerf or not.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

They also get the 15% heal buff so I think noct shields are stronger than crit adlos. Given that, and while sch isn't in a bad position, I do wonder if the meta goes AST/AST in 4.0.

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I doubt SE would let that happen (unless they allow cards to stack)

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Originally Posted by Cyrocco

Mainly, a small increase in Aspected Benefics base heal potency, and a barrier equaling 300% of the HP restored. This one in particular seemed jarring, because this kind of overbuffing is essentially removing SCHs relevancy as a mitigation healer. And this ability can still crit for higher healing.

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One thing to note is that Aspected Benefic under Nocturnal Sect will have its base healing reduced. While the base potency of Aspected Benefic was bumped up to 200 from 190, the current game raises that number to 250 when under Nocturnal Sect. That part is now gone, but the shield percentage has been significantly increased to the point that it should result in a net gain. I suppose Scholar still has Deployment Tactics for group mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

One thing to note is that Aspected Benefic under Nocturnal Sect will have its base healing reduced. While the base potency of Aspected Benefic was bumped up to 200 from 190, the current game raises that number to 250 when under Nocturnal Sect. That part is now gone, but the shield percentage has been significantly increased to the point that it should result in a net gain. I suppose Scholar still has Deployment Tactics for group mitigation.

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Yes, but only if you crit. Aspected Helios is also 200 potency and puts up shields of 150% on the party, so that's not only a better heal than succor (150 potency) it's also an adloquium strength shield on everyone. Thus deployment shield will be equivalent to AspHelios unless it's spreading a crit adlo, which has its own demerits due to relying on crit chance.

I wonder how AST mana management will be. Regardless going to practice cards just in case I decide to switch later (much too early to tell right now).

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Originally Posted by Cyrocco

Earthly Star is easily replacing one of WHMs core skills, Assize, there's nothing further to say on this skill. It's a ridiculous powerhouse no matter how you look at it, and when I first heard the description I was expecting something much longer than a 60 second cooldown.

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Look a little closer at the tool tip, specifically the radius of it, There's no denying Earthly Star is a very potent ability, but it's not an Assize replacement whatsoever, it's much more in line with Cure III and will handle as such. Also keep in mind that it's highly likely it won't be able to benefit from Divine Seal like Cure III can.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

Yes, but only if you crit. Aspected Helios is also 200 potency and puts up shields of 150% on the party, so that's not only a better heal than succor (150 potency) it's also an adloquium strength shield on everyone. Thus deployment shield will be equivalent to AspHelios unless it's spreading a crit adlo, which has its own demerits due to relying on crit chance.

I wonder how AST mana management will be. Regardless going to practice cards just in case I decide to switch later (much too early to tell right now).

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Actually in Nocturnal Sect, AST's Aspected Helios is 150 potency and 150% shields. So it is close but not quite.

AST is potency(150) * shield(1.5) * nocturnal sect bonus(1.15) = 258.75

vs

SCH potency(300) * shield(1) = 300

And here I was thinking that the devs would realize that AST had creeped up too much into the shoes of the other two jobs and would nerf it back a bit to compensate for The Balance.

I guess the WHM doomsayers were right all along! The Devs have no idea how to balance the three healers at all, jfc.

I'm very much hoping these are test values and they won't carry into the game itself.

On another note I wish they'd stop giving us stupid skill names like Redraw and Undraw.

I'm going to enjoy my super buffed AST for a bit, but am totally anticipating some nerfs to come along. STill stoked for everything we are getting. Earthly Star is just.....so beautiful.

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Originally Posted by Cyrocco

On another note I wish they'd stop giving us stupid skill names like Redraw and Undraw.

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I absolutely hate these names too.

Apparently SE is going to force us to love AST if it kills the rest of the game. /s

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Yep that's why I think Astrologian will take his place. White Mage will be the main healer.
All will depend of the fairy, if it will be nerf or not.



I doubt SE would let that happen (unless they allow cards to stack)

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Except that WHM chances are so god awful that this alone keeps the other two healers viable... or makes AST/AST meta. Probably the latter, seeing what they get. Jeebuz...

Here's how I think it should've gone, White Mages should've gotten what Earthly Star essentially is, on top of their Lily Functions. Sch should've gotten the shield buff that AST got, AST would've been fine with the potencies we have now, and our new card skills.

The ast potentcies coupled with their mana costs is just insane. The class is genuinely overpowered, as in they are too powerful compared to their counterparts.

It seems that instead of making ast the "jack of all trades, master of none" healer, they're making it "jack of all trades, master of all".

I like AST, and these buffs don't upset me, but wow. The buff bat just keeps coming after us. RIP other healers. Especially WHM who remains largely unchanged from its 2.X incarnation. I'm sure some re-balancing will be done before launch, as they said, nothing is final and everything is subject to change, but even still it's going to be an interesting few months after launch.

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Originally Posted by Cyrocco

Here's how I think it should've gone, White Mages should've gotten what Earthly Star essentially is, on top of their Lily Functions. Sch should've gotten the shield buff that AST got, AST would've been fine with the potencies we have now, and our new card skills.

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Assize is pretty much Earthly Star with instant gratification and MP regen. While i assume earthly star requires more planning and thought.

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Originally Posted by Cyrocco

Here's how I think it should've gone, White Mages should've gotten what Earthly Star essentially is, on top of their Lily Functions. Sch should've gotten the shield buff that AST got, AST would've been fine with the potencies we have now, and our new card skills.

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Hi

Earthly star has a 1 yard radius in both the Famitsu and EU/NA media builds.

It IS a cure III rival of sorts already.

It's a pretty safe assumption that the radius is going to go up to ~6-8 yalms and I'm fairly confident the potency will go down to cure III levels. 900 Potency on a proper healer ability is a bit bonkers.

I dunno man, even if Earthly Star's range is shit and is not suitable for AoE healing, ASTs can still use it like a pseudo ED, just drop it on the tank and fire it immediately, which means ASTs pretty much have 2 extra oGCD heals (Earthly Star + the Lady Card).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c48...tu.be&t=26m58s

As you can see there, the range of Earthly Star is much, MUCH bigger than Cure III's. And it heals for 11k non-crit :')

I think the range actually seems to be the same as Asylum, probably more or less the same as CU as well.

In other news, I really don't see the point of Sleeve Draw.

What's that supposed to achieve? If I understand it correctly, it looks like a tool to give yourself an instant Lord or Lady. Say I just drew and used something and then popped Sleeve Draw, will it work regardless of cooldowns (as in, instantly draws another card and plays all the other actions?)

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Originally Posted by kagemitsu

In other news, I really don't see the point of Sleeve Draw.

What's that supposed to achieve? If I understand it correctly, it looks like a tool to give yourself an instant Lord or Lady. Say I just drew and used something and then popped Sleeve Draw, will it work regardless of cooldowns (as in, instantly draws another card and plays all the other actions?)

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Sleeve Draw: Executes Draw, Royal Road, Spread, and Minor Arcana in succession.

Basically what that means is, if any of those four areas are "blank" then Sleeve Draw will put something there. Normally it would be necessary for Draw to be used four times in order to put a card or effect into each of those areas. Sleeve Draw gives you all of that instantly, but with each card being allocated randomly. My understanding is that any cards already present in any of those four areas will not be replaced by Sleeve Draw. For example, if you have Balance as your Spread card when Sleeve Draw is used, that card will stay put, but you will receive other random cards under Draw, Royal Road, and Minor Arcana.

Also yes, the recast timers for each of those abilities will be effectively reset upon using Sleeve Draw which we can see demonstrated in the FINAL FANTASY XIV: Stormblood - Job Actions video. Draw is put on cooldown when Minor Arcana is used, then Sleeve Draw is used 15 seconds later to pull a new card when normally you would have to wait the full 30 seconds before a new card can be drawn.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c48...tu.be&t=26m58s

As you can see there, the range of Earthly Star is much, MUCH bigger than Cure III's. And it heals for 11k non-crit :')

I think the range actually seems to be the same as Asylum, probably more or less the same as CU as well.

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actually, that's about cure iii's radius, maybe a smidge bigger. It's much larger than people think it is, and i have done testing on this. Cure iii has a decent radius, you just can't see it because there's no indicator.