How many Warrior of Light exist in story?

I notice that as we progress, the story telling always refer us players as "he" or "she" or "the one and only". So assume there is only one WoL ? However in actual game play, we are many. We do party, hunt, chat, and sell. And sometimes during the story when we fight some boss, we also split into many also, despite in the story there were only one of us and a NPC.

Then again, when Warrior of Darkness showed us, they come in team, so it look like there were more than one WoL on their world. Then why we only fight them alone with the NPC and not seek other WoL in this world for help? Do other WoL exist at all in the lore?

The term Warrior of Light has a few meanings throughout the story, coincidentally being the name the Mothercrystal calls those chosen who take up her cause and receive Crystals of Light, the historical records of such saviors from past eras, and those who fought alongside Louisoix at Carteneau that none can recall.

Generally speaking, when not referring to a fellow crystal bearer or those that Louisoix cast into the rift, the player character is the only one referred to as Warrior of Light, and the game just takes it for granted that this warrior has adventurer allies - especially within the ranks of the Free Companies.

The use of the term in the plural has plummeted aside from these historical references and allusions to legend.

To tack on to what moose said, the total amount of "Warriors of Light" or Hydaelyn's choosen that we know of is 4. Us, Ysayle, Minfilia, and Krile. Basically, anyone with the Echo, whether or not they have risen up to the "prestige" of these 4 is unknown. I have my suspicions about Urianger, since he seems too close sometimes to issues related to echo users and primals in regards to tempering. There is also a debate on Thordan possibly being given the echo from Zodiark.

I'd like to ad that other wol are shown interacting with hydaelyn in more than one cut scene including the first hear feel think one... I agree with moose on his interpretation of its various uses...

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Originally Posted by Eloah

To tack on to what moose said, the total amount of "Warriors of Light" or Hydaelyn's choosen that we know of is 4. Us, Ysayle, Minfilia, and Krile. Basically, anyone with the Echo, whether or not they have risen up to the "prestige" of these 4 is unknown. I have my suspicions about Urianger, since he seems too close sometimes to issues related to echo users and primals in regards to tempering. There is also a debate on Thordan possibly being given the echo from Zodiark.

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I do not believe possessing the Echo makes one a Warrior of Light, because it seems to be an unspoken thing that the Warrior of Light's Adventuring allies also possess the Echo and thus are immune to tempering.

The primary qualifier to be a Warrior of Light is possessing not just the Echo, but ALSO the Blessing of Light. The two appear to be two completely different powers, as when Midgardsormr took away the Blessing of Light in 2.55, the Echo was a power our characters still retained. If anything, to have the Blessing of Light would require one or more Crystals of Light as well. The only other person with the Echo who also had a Crystal of Light that we know of is Ysayle, but that wasn't any indication that she had the Blessing of Light.

My guess is the Blessing of Light comes directly to the Warrior of Light from Hydaelyn through Crystals of Light.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

I'd like to ad that other wol are shown interacting with hydaelyn in more than one cut scene including the first hear feel think one... I agree with moose on his interpretation of its various uses...

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I think those individuals were either bearers of the Echo, or just plain everyday folk, considering the ending of 2.0 where we strike down Lahabrea includes a number of characters we know do NOT possess either the Echo -or- the Blessing of Light.

I think that we can assume out "adventurer companions" that we take with us for raids and the like possess the echo, but they are not fellow warriors of light, not in the same sense as your character. Though... some content seems to act as though you went through yourself, maybe assuming that story wise the npcs with you at that time subbed in for the other party members (like Alisae in BCoB).

The Player is the official 'Warrior of Light'. To be fair that is a label given by the public so really the fact only the Player is recognised as the Warrior of Light is because no one else has been yet. There can be more than one Warrior of Light at a time.

Storywise, the Player seems to be specifically Hydaelyn's chosen champion. Both Midgardsormr and the Ascians seem to suggest as much. She has many agents but the Player is a special case and Hydaelyn invested a lot of energy to protecting the Player while they grew in strength.

Story wise the Player character is the one and only Warrior of Light.

Any other characters blessed by the Light are just Blessed by the protection of light which allows them to fight along side the Warrior of Light against Primals and stuff.

Though Lore wise the WoL fights all the Primals and complete all Story Dungeons Solo and it is only during normal dungeons when the WoL is with other adventurers.

As Edwin mentioned, canon wise at the current place in the story, only the player's character is the Warrior of Light. And adding further to that, this was a question that the development team answered back during the Lore Panel at the very first FanFest and Ferne replied that a little suspension of disbelief is needed - that from the player's perspective, their character is the Warrior of Light, with every other player character just a regular adventurer.

Also, it should be remembered that apart from 1.0 characters who had the 'Legacy' story, the player's character is not actually called the Warrior of Light until the end of the initial 2.0 story - the first time is Minfilia mentions offhandedly that their constant exploits make them seem to be "a Warrior of Light reborn", but it is Hydaelyn Herself who first addresses us as such after Lahabrea is banished from Thancred. After all, the very term was first being used to describe the adventurers (ala 1.0 players) who fought at Carteneau but then vanished thanks to Louisoix's last resort, but because of the amnesia caused by said teleportation magic (and Bahamut's banishment), the memories possessed by those who remained behind of those adventurers' identities were obscured "as if by a bright light".

Either way, the important thing is that for story purposes, only the player's character is the 'Warrior of Light' from the player's perspective.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

I do not believe possessing the Echo makes one a Warrior of Light, because it seems to be an unspoken thing that the Warrior of Light's Adventuring allies also possess the Echo and thus are immune to tempering.
The primary qualifier to be a Warrior of Light is possessing not just the Echo, but ALSO the Blessing of Light. The two appear to be two completely different powers, as when Midgardsormr took away the Blessing of Light in 2.55, the Echo was a power our characters still retained. If anything, to have the Blessing of Light would require one or more Crystals of Light as well. The only other person with the Echo who also had a Crystal of Light that we know of is Ysayle, but that wasn't any indication that she had the Blessing of Light.

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GAH!!!! What I originally wrote got deleted, I hope this is similar to my original, T.T

You are misinterpreting the context with the meaning. Similar to what Moose said, the phrase Warrior of Light has different connotations based on who and when you ask. In the present time the current usage is because the people are referencing the "Warriors" of Carteneau, whom they can only remember with a flash "of Light". But anyone with the Echo is one of Hydaelyn's Warriors of Light, they are just not referred to as such since that phase means something different to them. This is confirmed canonically by the 4 individuals I mentioned, The Warriors of Darkness, Y'shtola, and Matoya. But as I mentioned before not everyone with the echo will rise to prominence like the 4 we know of, some might not even know what it is as it manifest differently in each individual. But as someone mentioned in a later post, we do seem to be Hydaelyn's "pet project". Basically its like this, if you have someone doing something for you and they are doing a good job, you're gonna make sure they have the resources and tools to continue doing that job. Basically we are helping Hydaelyn, so she is helping us help her i.e. she gave us the blessing of light.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

The Player is the official 'Warrior of Light'. To be fair that is a label given by the public so really the fact only the Player is recognized as the Warrior of Light is because no one else has been yet. There can be more than one Warrior of Light at a time. Storywise, the Player seems to be specifically Hydaelyn's chosen champion. Both Midgardsormr and the Ascians seem to suggest as much. She has many agents but the Player is a special case and Hydaelyn invested a lot of energy to protecting the Player while they grew in strength.

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I'd say that's about right

For the time being, I've been holding the assumption that one is not a Warrior of Light (compared to the Warrior of Light, Hydaelyn's Champion) until they accept the gift of the Echo and hearken to Hydaelyn's voice and receive a Crystal of Light. At this time, they become literally a porter of the Light in a sense.

Recall that Unukalhai said that he was given the Echo, but never became a Warrior of Light.

I would add that the player-character is different from most of those with the Echo, in that he or she has earned at least one "crystal of light".

And to make the player-character even more special, he or she is the only person known to have manifested all six of the crystals of light.

It seems that about 20 years ago, Hydaelyn "blessed" a number of individuals with the Echo. Those who received the blessing witnessed an apocalyptic star shower, and heard a voice beckoning them to "hear, feel, think".

These individuals came to manifest certain abilities, like being able to understand all languages, or being able to randomly see events from the past. Many were shunned by society, and were regarded as cursed.

It was in this environment that Minfilia created a secret society — the Path of the Twelve — to gather and give shelter to as many of the Echo-blessed as she could, believing that theirs was a power meant for the greater good.

Most legacy players from 1.0 would have likely become part of this pre-Scions society, as the induction occurred quite early in the story.

If I understand correctly, none of the Pathwalkers were referred to as "warriors of light" at this point. In fact, the Echo was at the time, very poorly understood. It was said that many Pathwalkers went on journeys of self-discovery. Many did not return, and those who did chose not to talk about it, for reasons unexplained.

It's subsequently implied that most, if not all, of the Pathwalkers fought in the Battle of Cartenau. The Eorzean Army comprised not just the Pathwalkers, but also ordinary adventurers from various free companies. Most of them perished, and only a special few, including the player-character, were saved by Louisoix's spell.

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(1)
Now, as the others explained, the survivors of the Calamity are unable to recall the faces of those who fought in the battle. All they can remember is a flash of light, and the silhouettes of the warriors. Hence, the generic reference to these heroes — which include the legacy players and their immediate companions — as the "warriors of light".

(2)
In effect, the "first wave" of Hydaelyn's experiment failed, and cost Her several of Her chosen. And so, from 2.0 onwards, Hydaelyn began to intervene directly, at great cost to Herself.

Five years after the Calamity, Hydaelyn reached out to some of the surviving Echo-blessed (ie, us, the player-characters of 2.0, and the legacy survivors), and personally urged them to fulfil their destinies by seeking the crystals of light.

How and why Hydaelyn chose these remaining individuals is not clear. What we do know is that not all of the remaining Echo-blessed received this very direct call to duty. Ysayle, for example, did not appear to have witnessed it, but instead received a very different vision from her brief contact with Hraesvelgr. It's implied that the Ascians may have intervened, and hence misled her into taking the wrong path.

(3)
As the events of 2.0 unfolded, out of all the "second wave" of Echo-blessed that Hydaelyn directly contacted, only the player-character would succeed in earning all six of the crystals of light.

Ysayle, in contrast, possesed only one crystal of light, likely the crystal of ice.

Armed with the light of the crystals, and with the further protection of Hydaelyn, the player-character successfully defeated the Ultima Weapon, as well as three primals along the way. By the end of 2.0, it was abundantly clear to most people, and not just the Scions, that the player-character is the destined hero prophesised by Louisoix.

Hence, the player-character came to be known as the Warrior of Light from the 2.x series onwards. It's a title that was unofficially, but unanimously bestowed upon him or her by the rest of Eorzea.

(4)
So, who are the other people who fight alongside the Warrior of Light in some of his or her greatest trials? It's up to you, the player, to decide. The game is silent on the matter.

Given that one needs to have the Echo in order to safely confront a primal or eikon, it can be assumed that the WoL's companions in these trials are fellow Scions. The WoL is, after all, not the only one among the Scions to have the Echo. Besides Minfilia and Krile, lesser Scions like Arenvald (the half-Garlean bastard who can be found at the Waking Sands) are known to have the blessing, though not to the same degree as the WoL.

Whether or not these fellow Scions are "warriors of light" in their own right depends on how you, the player, wants to role-play the development. If, for example, you're playing with a static party of your fellow free-company members, there's nothing to stop all of you from imagining yourselves as a "party of the Warriors of Light".

But, as far as the in-game presentation is concerned, only the player-character is directly referred to as the Warrior of Light. That just happens to be the default, as it's necessary to accommodate the gameplay fact that the MSQ can be completed essentially on your own.



I hope this helps. :)

Thats quite in depth and sadly I'm on my phone right now so i cant go into detail, but im curious about the Crystal of Light. Granted throughout ARR we get 6, so make sense others don't, but based on the Warriors of Darkness story we "see" or original Crystal was Water, and the rest seem to be the Blessing. My guess is similar to what Moose described. Hydaelyn gives her "Chosen" a crystal, but it wont manifest until they accept it. And should anyone show signs of prominence she will give them more. I hope we see more uses of our crystal so we can say, "we have a water crystal" or something.

Also to semi put the topic to rest just remember that the term Warrior of Light has different meanings not only in the game but to us as the player, based on the series as a whole. Since those two meanings arent lining up thats were the confusion and interpritations are coming from.

It's been a while, but if I remember correctly, we find or are given each of the six crystals of light.

I believe that in the ARR intro cutscene where the character meets Hydaelyn, Hydaelyn calls that person one of the "chosen many".

I am not sure if that implies that there can be more than one Warrior of Light. However, since the companions that fight alongside the character don't fall under primal influence and tempering, Hydaelyn might have a point.

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

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This. When you get your first crystal (water), you get to commune with Hydaelyn again, and in that cutscene there are hundreds, if not thousands of Warriors of Light. Every streak of light you see around Hydaelyn in that moment is a Warrior of Light.

What makes the PC different in the MSQ is that they are a Warrior of Light who has accomplished much more than defeating a weak ascian, they have bested trial and primal, one after another. They have overcome cataclysmic enemies.

The Warrior of Light that the MSQ follows is sort of the Elidibus of Hydaelyn's chosen many, the strongest and wisest. But they can't do everything, that's where the others come in, the lesser Warriors of Light do stuff that the PC can't, like take out ascians as needed or protect the people where the politicians fail.

Edit: I should note that me calling the numerous chosen lesser Warriors of Light is conjecture based on the events of 3.4. We saw that just a sole crystal of light was enough to overcome incredible odds and become god-like in power. So if we were to assume that everyone we saw at that moment were those with the Echo who had manifested a crystal of light. Then we as the Warrior of Light are likely far from alone, there just aren't many, if any, who have manifested all six crystals.

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Originally Posted by MiniPrinny

This. When you get your first crystal (water), you get to commune with Hydaelyn again, and in that cutscene there are hundreds, if not thousands of Warriors of Light. Every streak of light you see around Hydaelyn in that moment is a Warrior of Light.

What makes the PC different in the MSQ is that they are a Warrior of Light who has accomplished much more than defeating a weak ascian, they have bested trial and primal, one after another. They have overcome cataclysmic enemies.

The Warrior of Light that the MSQ follows is sort of the Elidibus of Hydaelyn's chosen many, the strongest and wisest. But they can't do everything, that's where the others come in, the lesser Warriors of Light do stuff that the PC can't, like take out ascians as needed or protect the people where the politicians fail.

Edit: I should note that me calling the numerous chosen lesser Warriors of Light is conjecture based on the events of 3.4. We saw that just a sole crystal of light was enough to overcome incredible odds and become god-like in power. So if we were to assume that everyone we saw at that moment were those with the Echo who had manifested a crystal of light. Then we as the Warrior of Light are likely far from alone, there just aren't many, if any, who have manifested all six crystals.

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Koji has said that Hydaelyn has many agents across the world but only one champion, one Warrior of Light. In truth its a title given by the people so there is as many Wariors of Light as the people say there are. For now the Player character is the only one who has been given the title by the general populous.

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Originally Posted by MiniPrinny

This. When you get your first crystal (water), you get to commune with Hydaelyn again, and in that cutscene there are hundreds, if not thousands of Warriors of Light. Every streak of light you see around Hydaelyn in that moment is a Warrior of Light.

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It is already confirmed that those people in that scene are not WoLs but just other people that she communicates with. At least right know we are her only one. (One could even say that we also werent the WoL at the beginning. We only got the title because we managed to collect the crystals, we did not start with one) Otherwise why should we defeat all those evils alone? Why are the ascians only worried about us? It seems that at least in the past we had more than one WoL, but Hydaelyn is losing this war so maybe she would not even have the power to protect more than WoL. I mean the WoDs came from a world with too much light, so maybe that is the reason they were more than one.

the chosen that I've counted are at least 5 not counting the warriors of dark. I feel its a rare gift but the chosen tend to draw towards one another.

The easiest way to think about it is that while Hydaelyn has gifted the Echo and Crystals of Light to many, the PC is the one, true Warrior of Light.

Various bits and pieces in-game suggest this; Unukalhai's journal entry for Zurvan mentions you gathering a group of "echo-blessed champions" to take on the Demon, but in terms of story you are the one and only Warrior of Light.

It's not necessary to have the Echo to face a Primal. What is a necessity a strong will and mind. Speaking of Zurvan, you'd recall that several of the troops present fell to his influence, but others did not. Strong willed individuals such as this likely composed the Company of Heroes, who I doubt all had the Echo.
That is because there are two forms of Tempering that we saw. One is like with Zurvan - unintentional. The second, as we see with Garuda and Ifrit, is very much something the Primal actively performs. So long as this second is not done, people even without the Echo or the Blessings can fight a Primal without falling under their influence. Those are likely most of your companions.
Then there's also examples like what happened when the Mothercrystal protected us from Ultima - she protected our allies as well. While to a lesser degree, I believe our party members receive protection from Hydaelyn by virtue of association with us.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

It's not necessary to have the Echo to face a Primal. What is a necessity a strong will and mind.

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To clarify: the weak-willed fall to primal influence faster; we've yet to see anyone who can hold out indefinitely (without the Echo). Recall the Sahagin quest where Maelstrom soldiers were tied up on grounds tainted by Leviathan's energies (where I assume he'd tempered people in the past). By the time you get there, some have been enthralled, some have not - but all would have been had you not arrived.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Speaking of Zurvan, you'd recall that several of the troops present fell to his influence, but others did not.

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This, this would likely still be a time thing - being too close to the primal's energies for too long. Krile and Unukalhai both say that the Imperial soldiers have no means of resisting Zurvan's will for long, and when you arrive, they marvel that even half-asleep his aura is corrupting some of the legionnaires.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Strong willed individuals such as this likely composed the Company of Heroes, who I doubt all had the Echo.

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I don't recall having confirmation that any of the ones we know had the Echo, really. (Though, if 1.0 had continued on its trajectory, we would have allied with them.) The Company of Heroes went into battle knowing each one might be their last, knowing they might have to be killed by their own men. Tempering was so inevitable that it was sometimes worked into their strategies: the first wave would run in and many would be tempered, the second wave would fight those corrupted from the first wave, and the third wave would attack the primal with those who were able before it could temper more people.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Those are likely most of your companions. <...> I believe our party members receive protection from Hydaelyn by virtue of association with us.

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Based on how often the game uses terms like "Echo-blessed" and "Godless Blessed", etc. to refer to our party, I think it's implied that we met them through the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, which has many Echo-blessed warriors in its ranks due to Minfilia's side of the operation. If it was as simple as the Mothercrystal actively shielding people in the moment, there'd be no reason not to bring, say, Thancred or Y'shtola, right?

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

there'd be no reason not to bring, say, Thancred or Y'shtola, right?

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Other than the fact that the game seems to acknowledge you bring allies along for the sole reason that this is an MMORPG and most content you are forced to run in groups. If you truly acknowledge that other individuals were present, the story falls apart as so many others are rubbed of credit they rightly deserve as they fought alongside you. IIRC, Thordan doesn't look up at you and your comrades and marvels at your collective strength, you alone are present for him to fear.

As for the rest of what I said, yes, tempering would've been inevitable, but there're more than enough examples present to show that just because someone faced off against a Primal does not necessarily mean they have the Echo. That would sadly tie in with canonically yes acknowledging your nameless teammates - they're "acceptable losses", compared to any named NPC.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

If you truly acknowledge that other individuals were present, the story falls apart as so many others are rubbed of credit they rightly deserve as they fought alongside you. IIRC, Thordan doesn't look up at you and your comrades and marvels at your collective strength, you alone are present for him to fear.

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Only if you acknowledge some quests referring to your allies to mean that your allies are present for every quest, no? Neither the Duty Finder nor the quest journal claim that the Singularity Reactor was attended by any more than you (not even when the Minstrel embellishes it.) While it's true that due to game mechanics you travel with friends into every instance, is there something inconsistent with the black and white line between alone and not alone being to accept what the game tells you? Contrast the Singularity Reactor to something like the Steps of Faith, where it specifies your allies.

Interestingly we can even see our allies in steps of faith ;). After the fight we see them in a cutscene, its the people we collected earlier by asking around. I found this to be quite a interesting cutscene and its also the only one that truly shows that we had other people with us there. I am still of the believe that we slay primals alone and that also most of the story dungeons are done alone too otherwise it really does not make sense quite a lot of time. But that can probably be discussed endlessly so I am stopping my little off topic here.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Interestingly we can even see our allies in steps of faith ;). After the fight we see them in a cutscene, its the people we collected earlier by asking around. I found this to be quite a interesting cutscene and its also the only one that truly shows that we had other people with us there. I am still of the believe that we slay primals alone and that also most of the story dungeons are done alone too otherwise it really does not make sense quite a lot of time. But that can probably be discussed endlessly so I am stopping my little off topic here.

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Those characters were winners of a contest in which players who won would have their character appear in-game. The same is true of the Miqo'te woman Thancred is chatting up on the balcony during "The Parting Glass."

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Interestingly we can even see our allies in steps of faith ;). After the fight we see them in a cutscene, its the people we collected earlier by asking around. I found this to be quite a interesting cutscene and its also the only one that truly shows that we had other people with us there. I am still of the believe that we slay primals alone and that also most of the story dungeons are done alone too otherwise it really does not make sense quite a lot of time. But that can probably be discussed endlessly so I am stopping my little off topic here

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That's not completely correct in that instance is not the only case of your party appearing in a duty cutscene, in the Praetorium your party appears with you in the cutscenes as well, such as when you first jump off the Enterprise, and the scenes with Gaius and Nero, all the way to the bottom against the Ultima Weapon, your party members are standing around behind you (and some even have little gestures they make to each other!). But given the tendency for players to skip these cutscenes, it's little wonder that is missed (and hence wouldn't occur usually when viewing those same cutscenes later in the Unending Journey).

Either way the storyline specifically mentioned just prior to that quest that you were told to "lead an elite adventurer unit into the Praetorium to destroy the Ultima Weapon" (paraphrased), which makes sense, given it was a military operation taking place under the auspices of the Alliance, you weren't just trudging through some random ancient ruin there.

As far as Primals go though, some Primal fights specifically mention that your player is the only one there (such as Ifrit NM, because your character was naturally captured by the amalj'aa due to Ungust's plotting and was dragged there to be tempered, and Ravana HM, where again the player is sent to be tempered, although this time they're accompanied by Ysayle and willingly let themselves be captured).

Other Primal fights though it's less clear though, with some seeming to favour a "find a group of your most trusted companions and then take down the Primal" approach, Leviathan especially.

The description for the minion of light says that whenever a calamity is eminent warriors of light appear to unite the realm and vanish afterwards... so there's that..

@Enkidoh: Well those dungeons were quite a long time ago so maybe I forgot them but are they even still there if you watch the cutscenes in the book? Because I kinda meant that these were the first ones that were shown at the end of a instance and still were there if you watched them in the book. If they are still there in the book than I truly forgot about them.

I always found it kinda strange that somehow they say that you lead a group of people into Praetorium, yet you are shown to be the only one alive at the end and also the only one that got out of the fire. At the same time everyone is only worried about you. Makes us look really bad if we truly had people with us till the end. (Interestingly quite a few bosses talked in Germany like we were alone, while it was more than one person in the English version) My headcanon is more like: We charged into the place with adventurers on our side but right were we start the dungeon ingame the other adventurers go their own ways and we do the rest alone. At least that wont make me feel like a bad person.

Well primals are really strange too because (and I agree with you) they even say with ifrit that we should use the lake to escape and gather more people, yet this does not make any sense at all from a story point because why did we not get help from the city state ourself, and how big is the chance to go out there, find other adventurers with the echo that are willing to fight with us and get back there without anyone noticing. IMO lots of primals dont make sense if you try to see it with an group since most of the time we are traveling alone and if there are other people with us that can withstand the tempering why are we in the spotlight? (I do say that Leviathan is one of those that could have others with us)

So this kinda goes hand in hand that we are probably the only WoL in this world, since otherwise we should have gotten way more help and we should have heard from them like we heard from the WoD after they started to slay primals. (Kinda wanted to not go too off topic x))

@Okamimaru: Well one could say that maybe in the past there was more than one WoL at the time of a calamity but Hydaelyn loosing the war more and more kinda made that not so possible anymore. Thats why she protected us against Ultima even though it would weaken her greatly, simply because we are probably the last hope of her.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

...those dungeons were quite a long time ago so maybe I forgot them but are they even still there if you watch the cutscenes in the book?

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I am 99 per cent confident that the cutscenes you see in the Neverending Tale are different from those you watch at the end of every dungeon you complete for the first time. By default, all the replayed cutscenes assume that your character is on his or her own. They would not record who you played with at the time.

That's simply because the variables that put other characters in the cutscenes are undefined in whichever logfiles the videos refer to.

(As a matter of fact, if you were to replay the cutscene of the time you receive the invitation to visit the Waking Sands, the replayed cutscene will always involve Thancred by default, no matter which city-state you start from. That was quite disconcerting, considering that my character Lyland was actually invited by Y'shtola during my actual playthrough.)

I feel that all the discussions and arguments on whether the WoL is alone, or part of a team, stem from a failure in imagination.

There's absolutely nothing to prevent you, the player, from re-imagining relevant scenes in any way you like, if world-building and role-playing are what you're interested in (which I assume to be the case, or we wouldn't be here browsing the lore sub-forum).

And there's absolutely nothing to stop the imaginative player from using the canonical cutscenes as the launchpads for his or her own re-telling of the story.

As someone who has played his fair share of tabletop role-playing games, I can readily attest to the fact that most players expect their Dungeon Masters to adapt official campaign modules to suit each play group's own take on the official story. That's part of the fun of role-playing games: We expect the unexpected. Nothing is set in stone, and every playthrough is potentially a brand new experience.

We are absolutely at liberty to hand-wave away anything that doesn't fit our understanding of the story. The only caveat is that there's no compulsion on other campaign teams to follow the same interpretation.

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Anyway, the TL;DR version of this post is simply that we shouldn't be too anal about what in-game cutscenes show. What matters is how you rationalise your in-game experience. As I said in my earlier post, if you happen to be lucky enough to play this game with a static group of real-life friends, there's really nothing to stop you from imagining you and your friends as the Warriors of Light in this story.

It just happens that, from a design point of view, the game cannot assume that every player has friends (many of us are No-Life Kings in real life ). The only thing the game can be certain about is that one person is definitely playing at any given instance, and that's why the single-player perspective is taken by default.

For everything else, the players can wing it as they see fit. :)

Personally, I like to take the view that my character is not only a total badass but also a charismatic leader with a goldfish-poop gang of devoted followers following fast on my heels no matter WHAT situation I wind up in. While cases like Nabriales and Thordan stretch this viewpoint thin at times, I nevertheless continue to insist that there's always seven or more others waiting in the wings to follow my commands to victory! I get the credit for the win not because I single-handedly brought the threat low, but because, due to my strategic brilliance, I was in the space of mere moments able to draft a team of highly skilled combatants and lead them to victory.

While it may be a stretch, I still think it breaks suspension of disbelief a lot less than insisting that my WHM was able to drub Nidhogg senseless with her staff or whatever with no support at all. :P

Still, it's up to you to decide what works for you. There's no right or wrong answer.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I am 99 per cent confident that the cutscenes you see in the Neverending Tale are different from those you watch at the end of every dungeon you complete for the first time.

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Last post on that because I dont want this even more off topic. I know that people are replaced or not even there if you rewatch it. Thats exactly my argument. That for the first time (at least the one I can remember) after steps of fate you will see NPCs there with you that are not the other players that you had in that instance. So they are NPCs adventurers that exist in the world and that helped you with that. They are in the book too. So in a way you could say that this the first truly canonically instance with other adventurers.

I know that everyone could just imagine it how they want it to be. I do it often too so I can understand that. My "problem" is more that its often said that we had other people with us in certain trials or fights because the game told you so but in the story itself it does not make any sense. But its just a little pet peeve of mine so sorry for brining that up ^^; its just itching in my fingers if I read about it in threads.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

That for the first time (at least the one I can remember) after steps of fate you will see NPCs there with you that are not the other players that you had in that instance. So they are NPCs adventurers that exist in the world and that helped you with that. They are in the book too. So in a way you could say that this the first truly canonically instance with other adventurers.

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Oh, those particular characters are npcs, but, they were originally player characters, in that they were the winners of a competition Square Enix ran a couple of years ago on the Lodestone where your character could be added into the game as an npc in a cutscene (one of the first winners was a nameless male Midlander PLD in a hopelite tabard and darklight sabatons and gauntlets who appeared during one of the ARR Hildibrand quests who was then proceeded to be beaten into a bloody pulp by Typhon and Ultros in the first few minutes. :p).

Either way, those particular characters are npcs which are actually based on actual player characters, who were competition winners.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

While cases like Nabriales and Thordan stretch this viewpoint thin at times, I nevertheless continue to insist that there's always seven or more others waiting in the wings to follow my commands to victory!

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If I remember rightly Nabriales opens a portal right in Scion HQ, in theory you just shout your mates over from the other room.
Thordan tells you confront him if you dare then teleports away, giving you chance to call your team up on the linkpearl.

Ifrit and Ravana are the ones that I think the story makes hardest to explain the other characters with you.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Ifrit and Ravana are the ones that I think the story makes hardest to explain the other characters with you.

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I recall the prison area in the Bowl of Embers had an underwater passage that led to the outside. One of the random NPC Brass Blades who got captured along with you says that while the player character can come and go freely, if too many people start using it to escape, the Amaljaa would... do something bad? Kill those who remained? I forget.

I may be misremembering the details, but it did strike me as deeply weird at the time. I figured it was a way to allow the player to do other stuff while waiting for the Duty Finder queue, but fell apart narratively when subject to any scrutiny.

In any case, it might not be out of the question that the player character escapes, gathers allies, then re-enters the Bowl of Embers, where presumably the other adventurers pretends they've been there all along. Presumably the Amaljaa don't care about people coming into their prison, rather than escaping.

It's still deeply weird, but we probably shouldn't think about it too much.

I think Ravana had something similar. The Gnath say the WoL can go, but their friends have to stay.

I do agree that it makes a lot more sense story-wise to assume that the WoL is soloing these particular Primals, though.

I think all player characters are warriors of light but since it's our story as an individual that we are the only ones addressed by the npcs... I figured the other warriors were just off doing their own prepwork for things to come... several times we are told to gather our companions before a fight...

Amputexture on reddit noticed this, a reference to the players we fight with.

https://i.imgur.com/FRFCU1X.png

They mention the previous warriors of light as a group who vanished during the last calamity and nobody can remember what they looked like... the group from the opening movie... the WoD are also a group... so there isn't necessarily only one WoL unless derplander is the WoL and his companions are just that...

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

/snip.

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Derplander is a stand in for us for the opening movie. Unless you want to count the WOD which was from a different star altogether. Everyone is the Warrior of Light, however that is only during their own main story quest. Everyone they take with them are elite adventurers which during some quests are mentioned to be brought together by the PC.

The ones who were the previous warriors of light were we who are the legacy players that defeated Nael Deus Darnus in a partial epic game of missile command in The Rivenroad and "participated" in the battle of Carteneau. It's assuming we gathered the same people to fight off the black wolf before the servers went down and dalamud fell.