holy crud

Like Holy shit people! Cleric stance goes down and everyone looses their damned minds. The hostility towards healers went from 10 to 100. Listen I get that everyone has a hard on for dpsing healers but please keep this in mind.

Our dps output depends on you. If you're not avoiding damage. We can't can't dps. But if you keep from getting hurt then you'll have all the dps you want <3

We don't need to avoid AOEs now that healers can rescue us.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

We don't need to avoid AOEs now that healers can rescue us.

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I can already picture Black Mages commenting on healers not removing them from AoEs xD

As a WHM I bring the deeps now with the new cleric stance, figure out how to heal yourself!

After a good night's rest, I realized I no longer have to leave cleric to tetra my tank.

All is well.

Maybe they should add a dps stance for dps classes so that healers don't need to make up the dps difference in some content. Seems to me that the issue lies with the dps and not the healers.

I just have never seen this hate. Maybe people are hating on the "bad" healers. I have been yelled at one time by a tank that was mass pulling in The Aery and I didn't heal him enough so he died. Every other run I get lots of commendations and someone usually says good run or good job.

Healing and DPSing is the mark of a good healer, and everyone loves a good healer. I'm looking forward to the new cleric stance changes, because I will have to worry even less about misclicking a button while stance dancing.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

We don't need to avoid AOEs now that healers can rescue us.

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The first time I see anyone demand this regardless of the role I'm playing it will be a vote kick. Last thing we need to do is excuse more bad habits.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

After a good night's rest, I realized I no longer have to leave cleric to tetra my tank.

All is well.

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Yes! And now that you know it's going away, doesn't that cooldown just seem to take FOREVER, especially if you accidentally click it? Every time I go into CS now I think happily about how I won't ever have to do that again after the expansion launches.

I don't think this issue has ever been up for debate though? :/ I mean, in most (if not all) threads I've seen on this matter, players who are "in favor" of DPS-ing healers agree that a healer's first and foremost duty is to keep the party alive - this will obviously cut into DPS time if the rest of the party are having fun eating up every single hit dished out by mobs.

Usually the rage against heal-only healers stems from the fact that some healers insist on overhealing and keeping everyone topped off ALL the time, staying put when no damage is happening, and thus not contributing as much as they could.

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Originally Posted by Spiroglyph

I mean, in most (if not all) threads I've seen on this matter, players who are "in favor" of DPS-ing healers agree that a healer's first and foremost duty is to keep the party alive -

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Eh, a lot of the zDPS Healer crowd avoid this argument and pretend everyone is saying they should let their team die and should still be only DPSing if everyone is standing in every AOE the dungeon has to offer.

FYI I've yet to say a single person in the 100's of combined total pages of these Healer DPS threads say they want Healers to DPS and forego keeping the team alive. In the same 100's of pages I've seen a lot of healers claim it's one or the other.

The hostility miiiiiiiight be in response to the instant, outsized hysteria in response to people asking healers to add dps now that the main "prop" argument against it, Cleric Stance, is being changed to a cross class buff and damage is actually based off mind - as many healers who were anti Cleric Stance were already asking for years.

It's exhausting to see all rationality go out the window and every mention of moderation, prioritization, or acknowledging that healer dps is situational get brushed aside for dramatic whining about wholesale wipes, elitism, lack of MP, and probably carnage on the street for good measure.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

It's exhausting to see all rationality go out the window and every mention of moderation, prioritization, or acknowledging that healer dps is situational get brushed aside for dramatic whining about wholesale wipes, elitism, lack of MP, and probably carnage on the street for good measure.

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Many posters prefer to set up and knock down straw man arguments since it's the only way they can feel successful in these discussions. Admitting that healer gameplay really does involve a broad range of both healing and offensive actions would make it impossible for them to be right about pretty much anything, so we see the same general complaints about what are really just bad players (poor MP management, failure to learn fights, selfish gameplay, etc.) being used to malign the role's most viable playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

After a good night's rest, I realized I no longer have to leave cleric to tetra my tank.

All is well.

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Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

We've come full circle to the days before Scholar Lustrate was nerfed because it could be cast for full effect in dps mode. Now that's being restored and the love has been spread to the other healers.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

The first time I see anyone demand this regardless of the role I'm playing it will be a vote kick. Last thing we need to do is excuse more bad habits.

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I've assumed that Canadane was being sarcastic, but being the internet is hard to tells :S
Still honestly given the list of share healer skills (and making some assumptions of what AST will no longer have) unless it's content where I don't need esuna I can't see rescue ever making it's way on to my bar.

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Originally Posted by Spiroglyph

I don't think this issue has ever been up for debate though? :/ I mean, in most (if not all) threads I've seen on this matter, players who are "in favor" of DPS-ing healers agree that a healer's first and foremost duty is to keep the party alive - this will obviously cut into DPS time if the rest of the party are having fun eating up every single hit dished out by mobs.

Usually the rage against heal-only healers stems from the fact that some healers insist on overhealing and keeping everyone topped off ALL the time, staying put when no damage is happening, and thus not contributing as much as they could.

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/endthread

My main concern is self-entitled, lazy players who refuse to acknowledge half their toolkit. I'm not looking at your DPS numbers, im looking at your idle time and overheal numbers. I posted it in another thread, so I'll just link it here:

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Healers use a priority system when it comes to their skills, and that includes all skills, not just the healing ones. Healing spells are most important, Shields are situationally second most important, and if those aren't needed then DoTs are used (if they are DPS efficient), and then if none of that is relevant then you stick to your basic DPS spell.

Bottom line is: Healing is your main concern, Overhealing and idling are useless, always be casting, you can work the rest out from there.

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That is how healer is played, and anyone not acknowledging it is playing healer badly (Savage and static based premade content aside, that's between you and your party)

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

/endthread

My main concern is self-entitled, lazy players who refuse to acknowledge half their toolkit. I'm not looking at your DPS numbers, im looking at your idle time and overheal numbers. I posted it in another thread, so I'll just link it here:

That is how healer is played, and anyone not acknowledging it is playing healer badly (Savage and static based premade content aside, that's between you and your party)

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This response is beautiful and I, as a healer main, will use this as my own personal bible and instructions manual on "HOW TO HEAL IN FFXIV 1001".