Remove "Lockout" Time for oGCD Abilties

Currently in the game there appears to be some sort of lockout period, around 0.75 seconds, that prevents players from being able to use abilities that are off the global cooldown (oGCD abilities), back to back. This lockout period also appears to be increased by the user's latency to the game servers.

Because of this lockout time, low latency players are able to fit more oGCD ability uses into one global cooldown period. This gives them a distinct advantage over high latency players, and makes the game feel far less responsive than other MMOs.

I would propose that this "lockout" time be entirely removed if possible, or at least significantly reduced. Players should be able to create macros that let them use ALL of their oGCD buffs (Blood for Blood, Internal Release, Raging Strikes, etc.) with one press of a button. This would make things feel FAR more responsive in combat and improve the game greatly.

Thanks,
Muffin

Well, in regards to macros specifically, it's by design they won't chain instantly, queue up at all, or be in any way suitable for battle. It's part of the battle design to not be reliant on macros, and rather have it be executed by the players themselves.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Well, in regards to macros specifically, it's by design they won't chain instantly, queue up at all, or be in any way suitable for battle. It's part of the battle design to not be reliant on macros, and rather have it be executed by the players themselves.

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Yup. Can't have cool toys in FFXIV.

I would kill for mandatory animations to be removed. Let me clip my animations and hit all of my buffs at once. I don't need the game to look pretty.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Yup. Can't have cool toys in FFXIV.

I would kill for mandatory animations to be removed. Let me clip my animations and hit all of my buffs at once. I don't need the game to look pretty.

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That would end up a non-option by which every serious player would have to be reduced to a spasming flurry of limbs during every weaved GCD. How about just allowing the completion checks to be done client side? That way there's no loss of actions per minute due to latency but still a set time for each animation.

If we take a look at the game's UI and most of the oGCD spell descriptions, oGCD cooldowns APPEAR to have no cast/lockout/animation time of any kind. This is untrue, and failing to reflect this using the game's UI results in a combat system that feels squishy and unresponsive compared to other games out there.

Maybe it would be better to make oGCD cooldowns display their own associated lockout/animation time, as a cast time or something? Because with the way things are currently, the game does not properly communicate this part of the combat system. Maybe oGCDs should work like Bard's Empyreal Arrow, where the ability is off the GCD but shows us a cast time that matches its animation?

My concern here is that oGCDs are not actually oGCDs. The game tells us one thing, but the process of actually using a oGCD ability works completely differently.

Would client-side checks make the game more vulnerable to being abused? Weave hacks and such

In my opinion, to add a 1 button combo option (perform Impulse Drive > Disembowel > Chaos Thrust by pressing 1 > 1 > 1, instead of 1 > 2 > 3) ....


as well as...

Removing animation lock from abilities (actions oGCD/actions that are not weaponskills)

Would result in a need for another entire battle system overhaul.
(Akin to restoring the 1.0 combat system but to a much worse version. Continue reading...)








Currently the game is designed in such a way, that the player is mindful of their actions and their timing, as well as mindful of their characters position.

Removing the need to be mindful of the characters actions, by implementing a 1 > 1 > 1 combo system, and a Macro'ed buff button, would result in a 1 > 2 > 1 > 2 combat system. Which is worse than the original 1.0 combat system, where you spammed the "attack button" and then used other actions once you gained the appropriate amount of TP.


If they implemented what youre asking for and the 1 > 1 > 1 system they now have in PvP, they would need to add a vast array of other battle mechanic elements, or else this game would fall faster than 1.0. So no thank you.



TLDR:

So no, they should not implement the current PvP "press 1 button" combo system into PvE, nor should they remove the need to properly time abilities (oGCD actions) animation lock. As this would result in a recreation of a worse 1.0 combat system of spamming an "attack button" over and over and a "buff" button over and over. At least not without adding many more elements to the combat system.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

[It] would result in a need for another entire battle system overhaul.
(Akin to restoring the 1.0 combat system but to a much worse version. Continue reading...)

Currently the game is designed in such a way, that the player is mindful of their actions and their timing, as well as mindful of their characters position.

Removing the need to be mindful of the characters actions, by implementing a 1 > 1 > 1 combo system, and a Macro'ed buff button, would result in a 1 > 2 > 1 > 2 combat system. Which is worse than the original 1.0 combat system, where you spammed the "attack button" and then used other actions once you gained the appropriate amount of TP.

If they implemented what you're asking for and the 1 > 1 > 1 system they now have in PvP, they would need to add a vast array of other battle mechanic elements, or else this game would fall faster than 1.0. So no thank you.


TLDR:

So no, they should not implement the current PvP "press 1 button" combo system into PvE, nor should they remove the need to properly time abilities (oGCD actions) animation lock. As this would result in a recreation of a worse 1.0 combat system of spamming an "attack button" over and over and a "buff" button over and over. At least not without adding many more elements to the combat system.

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1. Dynamic slots and removing animation lock are entirely separate issues. The first is bloat reduction with no effect on the actual combat system. The latter is a can of worms, and can affect combat.

2. There is virtually no reason to remove animation lock, as our oGCD contribution and any potential skill-gap within is already on the chopping block for 4.0.

3. The "timing" of delayed usage of duration buff abilities vs. instant usage for all other abilities is also mostly scheduled for gutting or removal in 4.0, primarily by removing all but 4 fixed duration buff abilities as to remove the "delay" side from most jobs and greatly diminish skill-gap caused by optimal "windowed" play and CD sync/synergy.

4. It's the buttons. It's the actions they complete. Do you consider each second in which you hold down W to be a separate action? Why would Full Thrust combo then be any different when there is no viable reason by which to end that combo early? Why does it deserve 3 buttons while 'forward movement' gets only one?

5. There's no change to combat made by changing the hotkeys. It is literally the same thing as having a macro attached to Deliverance that swaps Fell Cleave into your Inner Beast slot, and vice versa.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Do you consider each second in which you hold down W to be a separate action? Why would Full Thrust combo then be any different when there is no viable reason by which to end that combo early? Why does it deserve 3 buttons while 'forward movement' gets only one? .

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Why?....

Because "W" or walk, or movement is one continuous motion.

Not only is it a continuous motion, its only one motion/action. Your character is walking.

What youre trying to imply is Impulse Drive, Disembowel, and Chaos Thrust for example, are all one action, when they are not. They are different actions, with different animations, executing different outcomes.

If they were to change combos into just "attacks" like I said, they would need to add more elements to the combat.

Again, referring to 1.0, when performing simple "attacks" you had an attack button, that you pressed over and over. What youre asking for, and Yoshida *removed* the attack button in 1.x and change it to "auto attack." Which is what we have now.

The reason is, its auto attack, is because its one continuous, repetitive motion, very much like your walk example.




Again, reducing combat, into just pressing attack, without adding a vast array of other elements to the combat system, would make for a very boring meaningless game, just with flashy animations... Mind you, which people already complain about.



So I stand my ground, that they should not implement an even more simplistic combat system.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Why?....

Because "W" or walk, or movement is one continuous motion.

Not only is it a continuous motion, its only one motion/action. Your character is walking.

...They are different actions, with different animations, executing different outcomes. ...

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To even further expound, movement is "complex" in this game, as Left, Right, Back, and Forward are all *different* actions, resulting in different outcomes.

If you *move* the wrong way, when there is an incoming attack, you are penalized, by taking damage.

In the same way, if you press the wrong button in your combo, you are penalized, by a lower damage outcome.....


So, movment, forward, is one button, and movement to the right is a complete separate button, with a different outcome, thus.....


they cannot, nor should not be one button.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

and movement to the right is a complete separate button, with a different outcome, thus.....

they cannot, nor should not be one button.

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And yet at no point in the process of moving 'down' the Full Thrust (+1) line can you ever apply anything 'up' the Chaos Thrust (+1) line, nor can you viably self-buff or open-DoT until its completion. And you certainly can't use multiple of the four choices simultaneously.

So why should any of those four decisions require any more than one key? There is no advantage to spending those extra 6 button slots on it.

Again, I would PREFER that there were such an advantage. I would prefer to have 10 actual, separate weaponskills, not just 4.
But as long as we do not, why purposely bloat the bars, capping out the amount of actual decisions we have available to us all the sooner?

its not so much a lockout timmer as a animation lock that prevents you from useing next ability untill the animation of the first is done.

Well they still need to do something because whenever I use light speed or next-spell-is-instant I have to wait a good 0.5-1sec before I can actually use the effect. Most of the time I use the CD, start my cast and see the casting bar going. Pretty annoying.

And I don't know if this is related, but I've been loosing many card draw recently, I press draw, animation goes on but I get no card. Cooldown is used tho xD

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

And I don't know if this is related, but I've been loosing many card draw recently, I press draw, animation goes on but I get no card. Cooldown is used tho xD

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That is something in relation to the change they made a while back that altered how some oGCD abilities were used, allowing them to chain to the next ability faster (or something like that, it was a little confusing lol). You basically just need to slow down a tiny tiny bit - you're casting the card on yourself or whoever you have targeted.

No thats thé problèm, the CD is consumed but I really get no cards. Every time I check my buff or my party buff to be sure and no one has any card buff. It can't be royal road as the skill is very far from my draw skill.
And I don't even get the scrolling text telling me I got a card. It happens often enough to remove the possibility that I didn't pay attention.

In that case, you'll want to gather as much info about it as you can and make a bug report since that is of course not supposed to happen.

Action RPGs have spoiled people