Mentors: What do you expect them to do?!

Disclaimer: I am not a mentor, but this rant is coming from my friends' experiences as mentors.

Now, Mentors are supposed to help right? Group with the lower level, perhaps new players and help ease things along?

Now. Mentors' goals is to help and give advice, say, in the Mentors' Roulette.
But whenever you try that, people tell you to shut the fuck up, or even just outright kick you, claiming 'Don't tell me how to play my Job.'
And when you're absolutely silent in runs, the low-level players cry 'Why didn't you help us or give us advice? You're a mentor, that's your job!'

Not joking when I say this happened almost every time they got in groups.

I'm sorry, but.. My god. What the heck do you expect them to do? You yell at them for doing their job, and then when they don't, you scold them anyway.

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I really hope not all people are like this X_X I was finally considering trying to become a mentor, but after having heard these things from my buddies, I'm terrified @.@

I don't acknowledge the mentor system because its an utterly failed concept and thus, I don't acknowledge "mentors" either.

I do, however, acknowledge those who act in the spirit of a mentor, crown or no crown.

When SE decides to revamp/rework the system properly, only then will I recognize its legitimacy and thus actually expect something out of mentors.

I expect them to be able to give advice when asked and be competent at their job.
So far this holds true for the majority of mentors I've encountered.

I've also had my run ins with people belonging to the small subset of geniuses who give mentors a bad rep but so far those are the exception.
Like the healer who outright refused to take part in Final Steps of Faith the other day because he didn't feel like "wasting his time with bonuses" demanding we kick him.
After we just waited for 5 minutes they left on their own, we got a replacement and cleared it on the third pull after getting people to stack for Ahk Morn so joke's on them.

I expect them to answer questions and give advice. I also expect them to keep from engaging in mentor fights. When these break out, everything suffers. Most mentors I've encountered have been pretty helpful in one way or another though.

I took my crown off long ago for various reasons:

1) I dont always feel like mentoring or being EXPECTED to mentor ppl. So
I keep it low-key. If someone needs help or asks for it, I can still step up and help.

2) some people expect mentors to be flawless and perfect every time, anytime.
I remember one vault run as a whitemage where I nicely contributed to dps and kept everyone alive
despite the tank not being all that great. Then I made ONE mistake and died to the last boss cos "derp" moment happened.
I was laughed at and told to "take off your crown". Cos of ONE mistake. And that wasnt the only incident.

3) the general bad perception people have about mentors nowadays. Its like "Oh no,its a crown. RUN".
Do I wanna be associated with that? No.



I wouldnt say the mentor system is a failed system. Western society's mentality is the problem. From both sides, newbies and veterans alike.
Pretty sure it works as intended for the most part on JP DCs...otherwise, I'm sure they wouldve adapted some things on the system already.


So honestly...take off your crown and help when you feel like it or when people ask for it is what I roll with best...

Mentors have their own duty roulette, which will put them in bonus parties mostly. Aka, with new players.

They will not teach you how to play your job because having all jobs maxed is not a requirement to become a mentor. They are not some FFXIV expert. But they know the basics of the game.

- Telling you about a mechanic that might cause a wipe if ignored.
- Seeing someone who's level 30 but does not have his job stone yet.
- Correcting players wearing wrong gear.
- Correcting false information that players may have. (e.g. BRD foe' lowers their damage)

But most of the time, they really don't have to say anything. The content is easy and direct. Most groups manage by themselves just fine.

I expect them to cure my gout, chase the locusts from my fields, and to make the village fruitful again.

Thankfully, the OP's friends' experience with mentoring is not typical. It, like most things that get posted to the General Forums, is a fringe case.

In actuality, most individuals will not comment if a Mentor completes a run silently and the run proceeds smoothly. If there are no problems, no mentoring is needed.

People often do react negatively to unsolicited advice, but not always. Because pride is a thing, and many people like to believe that they know what they're doing even if they don't, it is best to offer to give advice before actually giving it. If the one you're advising accepts, then they can no longer complain about you trying to help, because they agreed to it.

I have been a mentor since the system was added, have had the crown icon on ever since, and I can count on one hand the number of times where I felt like members were being abusive toward me due to my mentor status.

I think that some mentors are way too thin-skinned; they have a bad experience once or twice, and dwell on those isolated cases until they can't remember any of the positive or neutral experiences they've had. It's a common affliction, both in this game (just ask crafters about the so-called "real" odds of crafting success!) and in real life.

As a mentor, I think mentors should:

1. Be an example to others, be kind and respectful towards others.

2. Help newcomers and veteran when you notice that they are lacking certain things (Dragoons not using Heavy thrust, players not unlocking their Job, they want to know about stuff etc.), the key to providing this advice is to be polite and not demean the other players.

3. Explain the tactics, but only do this if they want to know. Alot of players (myself included) want to go in blind on their first try. I will ask the newcomers if they want me to explain, if they do not want me to explain, I will be silent. If we keep wiping, because of the newcomer(s), then I will have to put the needs of the group over the newcomer(s). I will tell the newcomer that they can either leave the group and do a blind run with a new group or receive the tactics and continue.

The way I see it is, if you are someone who wants to learn, then I will help you. But if you give me excuses like: "I pay my sub" or "STFU do not tell how to play my job" that is when you lose my respect and service as a mentor. I will put the needs of the group as a collective above this player and proceed to kick them out. :mad:

As a mentor, I answer questions in Novice Network, and sometimes queue for Mentor Roulette to help with the queues.
I don't give unsolicited advice in a party unless something is causing wipes. If they ask, I'll happily provide.

As a mentor, I teach by doing. Go through the dungeon or primal, let them get their feet wet. They don't need their hand held every step of the way.

I provide advice if there is a wipe or if I can see something blatantly wrong, like someone wearing totally the wrong gear for their class.

That said, I think the biggest problem is that people who are not mentors forget that mentors are people too. Yeah, when you sign up you agree to be a example of good behavior to your fellow players, but that doesn't mean you never get frustrated or tired. Mentors make mistakes. Mentors can get irritated when others play ridiculously poorly (and ignore friendly advice to fix it). Mentors can be new to content or forget old content. Sometimes they may not notice another player is even having a problem that could benefit from advice. Sometimes just asking if someone wants advice is enough to set people off.

Expecting mentors to do exactly what you want them to do exactly when you want them to do it is what causes these issues. Realistic expectations, where?

That said, I don't really encounter this particular issue on the daily. I've met plenty of people who ignore desperately needed advice, but very few who actively lash out at you for offering it.

Mentors should be nice and ready to help when asked . maybe even go the extra mile when helping.

Being a mentor is like being a tank. Its a thankless job. How often do you actually thank a good tank during a speedrun or just when they're performing exceptionally. (By thank I mean like saying gj or so at the end and not just the comm) Since people berate or kick subpar tanks and don't show appreciation when its due. Mentors are the same way. A mentor who actually mentors is generally left even mildly unappreciated while those who shouldn't be are the ones who get all the attention. Its negative attention, but they get more than the actual ones. Its western culture making it this problem. I have a friend who's fluent in Japanese who made an alt in a JP server and boy did he say there was a difference. Of course there's rude and unsavory people everywhere you go no matter what, but he said mentors in JP servers run that system almost perfectly.

I've started to just use a macro that says,

"Hello, I've queued under mentor roulette and will be your mentor this run. If you have any questions, I will try my best to give you an accurate answer and will admit if I don't know or remember."

It's been met with a bit of hostility from some, but I just ended up using ":)" every time that happened and just do the run. If no one asks anything, I just simply don't say anything more than the macro, but if there are newer players, some tend to actually speak up and ask. Although I'm not a particular fan of being a passive mentor, it feels lazy, and enjoy being a more proactive one, I suppose it's less invasive, off-putting, or comes off less as a know-it-all and people tend to be more chill.

The only time I revert back to proactive mentor is when it's an extreme primal, or extreme-like, like Odin. Synced, Odin is a nightmare and I go in assuming it's going to wipe. A lot.

Overall, it seems like the mentor system failed only in the west. Go figure, that's really not surprising.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Mentors should be nice and ready to help when asked . maybe even go the extra mile when helping.

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Actually this... but sadly nowadays....

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Overall, it seems like the mentor system failed only in the west. Go figure, that's really not surprising.

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...it's more an icon I personally run away from... another thing in this game which falls from fame to shame : /

"why are you so mean to the FT?... you are wearing a crown... o.o"
" 'cause I like the icon"
"...ok..."

As a mentor, I try to be as respectful and as understanding as I possibly can be, especially towards beansprouts or those new to a duty. I adjust my playstyle as much as I need to when paired with newer players that aren't as geared as I am to try and make their jobs easier. I can be extremely patient with regards to newcomers, and give them more benefit of the doubt than I do experienced players.

If another experienced player (or another "mentor") start giving someone new a hard time, I generally speak up on behalf of the new person if things get way too out of hand about how they're new to this duty, and to please try to remember what it was like when you were first here, or when you first started healing or tanking, and to please be respectful and understanding. I try not to engage in arguments with trolls, however, if I have a short fuse that day, I can't always stop myself from snapping on those that are just being plain abusive for no reason.

When people speak up in chat about being new, I generally welcome them to the duty, try to say something positive about it to break the ice (example: Wanderer's Palace HM - "I love this dungeon; some of the most epic background music around!"), and then ask if they would like pointers for the duty/boss fights. If a bonus message pops up but no ones says they're new, I generally just watch the group to see how things go, and if I notice a particular mechanic being failed more than once or twice, I kindly point it out in chat. If we end up wiping to a boss, I ask before the second pull if anyone would like any advice on how to handle the encounter. If I suspect that a tank is new, I generally give quick pointers on boss mechanics and how to tank them, even if no one asked for the advice. I only do this if I see the tank hesitating before pulling.

I don't always give advice on how to play jobs, as I don't consider myself an expert on every job in this game. However, if I see someone playing a job I do main (usually BRD, AST, or DRK), I try to offer them pointers if I think they may be struggling, or if they mention something about being new or rusty to a particular class/job.

I always say hello (or use my default greeting "o/") at the beginning of a duty, and I always say thank you to the group after it's over, even if the duty was a rough one, or if the group wasn't the best. I try to use :> or :3 or ^^ at the end of my advice to soften it, as I know text chat can be interpreted as cold or harsh some times, especially since I am generally a very blunt/straight-forward person who isn't very good at sugar-coating things, and my comments tend to come off as such.

I keep my crown on most of the time (although I did have it turned off for several weeks back before and after I took a break), and I always try to be polite in duties, even if I am in a bad mood or don't feel like teaching people that day. However, I don't like the mentality some people have where they expect mentors to always be willing to teach/carry players, as some days I am just not in the mood. I don't meet too many hostile players, but I have met some that I try to offer them advice, and they blow up at me for no reason.

I do not consider myself an expert at this game (I frequently joke that my crown is just a Burger King crown), and I know that I still have a ton of stuff that I need to learn. I do my best not to come off as any sort of elitist towards people, because I know that there are several things I still don't understand. I always feel bad when I land in a duty and cannot properly explain fights, because I know that, as a mentor, I should have basic knowledge of all duties included in Mentor Roulette. However, I find that people are very understanding when I say "Dang, I don't remember this duty at all; it's been like 20 years since I was last in here. XD" or "Crap, I completely forgot this entire fight...hopefully it will start coming back to me as we progress though!" I just try to do my best to understand mechanics and help out those who want my help, and to make this game as enjoyable for everyone else as I want it to be.

Like I said before, I'll admit that I lose my temper and my patience sometimes, but I try very hard not to take it out on the party. I may be grumbling to myself on the other side of the screen, but I do my best to remain as calm and as cool as a cucumber when around randoms.

That's what I think a mentor is, and what they should do.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

I took my crown off long ago for various reasons

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yeah, me too. Still quite happy to help people to know mechanics if needed, or have patience when newer players are learning something, don't need any crown for that.

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

yeah, me too. Still quite happy to help people to know mechanics if needed, or have patience when newer players are learning something, don't need any crown for that.

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yeah half of my fc as well... for me I personally never acquired the crown myself cause of those reasons x'D

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Originally Posted by AuRaBookworm

I'm sorry, but.. My god. What the heck do you expect them to do? You yell at them for doing their job, and then when they don't, you scold them anyway.

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As a non-Mentor who does not need mentoring, I expect a Mentor to serve three primary roles.

(1) They should be an experienced resource for various tactics in case anyone has forgotten or is struggling. Note that this does NOT mean telling people what to do in every fight, or piping up after every single mistake. Mentors should basically strive to be human versions of your favourite Wiki-style website; they're there if needed, and they're invisible if unwanted.

(2) In the event a player is repeatedly screwing up, the Mentor should take the lead in offering unsolicited advice, or initiating a vote-kick if the reaction to the advice is bad. I cannot stress enough that Mentors should NOT speak up if a player messes up a single time, unless the player in question asks for help; it's impossible to know whether it was a mistake or a lack of understanding. Nobody likes making a mistake and being immediately treated like a new player as a result.

(3) In the event there is a conflict between party members, a Mentor should be prepared to take the lead in settling everyone down, handling any necessary reports to GMs, or initiating vote-kicks. Other players might jump in, but the Mentor should be the real 'parent' of the group, so to speak.

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For what it's worth, when I see Mentors screwing up (or posting on the forums about a bad experience, oblivious as to the cause), it has to do with the unsolicited advice bit. I cannot stress enough that offering advice in this manner only pisses people off, even if they need it. People must be allowed a chance to learn from their mistakes in their own way, without heavy-handed guidance, before the 'teacher' steps in, so to speak.

I've been a Mentor since the program began and haven't really encountered the hostility others have stated, I mean hostility existed before the mentor program, I doubt it would get much worse with the program. That being said, I normally don't say anything unless someone is new and wants the help, or they are struggling with abilities/mechanics/etc. And even when I do, I do so with a very light touch. By doing that you will find the jerks and the ones who will genuinely want/accept your help. I wear my crown always, and with pride, because its a lot of work to just get that far, and it shows I am always willing and able to help. :D

For me, if I am new to a dungeon I feel it is my responsibility to let the group know that at the very start of the dungeon. I will then ask for any advice as that lets people know I am open to feed back. But that just seems polite to me to let others know I am ready to learn.

most id do is give advice if ppl ask me for it, there is a difference between offering advice and "giving" it. Its kinda like my aunt that decides every time she visits she's going to teach us how to "live right".......

Generally speaking, mentor job is to point out the right direction and not give a monolog, however, It seems that a lot of other players believe that a mentor should babysit and that's not true. Also, all player are supposed to be respectful and help out if needed with dungeons tactics. Anyway, the "bad quality" of mentors is just a reflection of the community. If mentors are that bad is because of players, in general, are that bad too.

Why did the Mentor system work so well in FFXI but failed so bad in FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by stardrifter

Why did the Mentor system work so well in FFXI but failed so bad in FFXIV?

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Because FFXI promoted social interactions, also bad behavior was accompanied with consequences like no one wanting you in his party.