Spoiler-ful advice to SE's Writing Team for Future Content.

Stop killing off your entire cast of characters.

You are allowed to have a large cast of characters. There is no limit.

You are allowed to make the stakes high without killing your characters.

This is a video game, not a comic book.

That is all.

I think the death toll of named characters for 4 years (earth time) of constant war with primals, garleans and dragons is actually at a reasonable level.
Moenbryda was a very short lived plot device used to give us an Ascian killing tool, show us that even Urianger can get embarrassed, and then do a lame asspull with "oh look, she left us a second crystal without saying anything, let's kill another Ascian".
Haurchefant went from minor side character to Best Bro Forever. As sad as his death was, it allowed for a tremendous amount of character growth in numerous others, and we may see those effects grow even greater in the future.
Ysayle had a splendid redemption arc spanning half the expansion, sad to see her go but I really can't imagine what else they could have done with her character by leaving her alive. Join the Scions? Start an orphanage for heretics? It's technically still a bad thing for Hydaelen every time she transforms.
Hydrus was a pure villain and his death would have been on our hands eventually anyways. Maybe we could sympathize with him for being the only humane Garlean officer ever, but his motives were (without question) to screw us over in the long run.
That last guy to recently die ..... I never saw a corpse, and this is SE we're talking about. Anything's possible.

Ya if anything I think the only trope I'd like them to refrain from using is introducing a fairly new character and quickly killing them off. it's fine if they take part in the overall plot like 1 and 2 spoilers but with Moenbryda, her "plot device" was a bit lame, to introduce her just for her to die.

Or at the very least when they do "kill" a character and make a huge, emotional moment out of it... don't just cheapen it and miraculously bring them right back.

"oh jk she was sleepin lolz"

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Originally Posted by Fatestorm

Stop killing off your entire cast of characters.

You are allowed to have a large cast of characters. There is no limit.

You are allowed to make the stakes high without killing your characters.

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That's generally what they've been doing - killing off characters is a surprisingly uncommon event.

In fact, one of the criticisms of the 3.0 story, according to some anyway, is that they didn't kill off enough characters (especially after making it seem like we were going to lose some far earlier than any that we actually have).

I mean, I'd get the complaint if we kept having to learn a bunch of new faces every few story beats, but much of the cast is still around and we've even added to the ranks.

If they were killing off characters then the sultana would've died. I think that was my greatest HW disappointment, wish they didn't write that out :(.

Was surprised for a Lalafell to pass on in the story however, but it was necessary for Lyse to become stronger for SB.

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

Or at the very least when they do "kill" a character and make a huge, emotional moment out of it... don't just cheapen it and miraculously bring them right back.

"oh jk she was sleepin lolz"

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Yeah - I get that they were going for in that story arc, that the Monetarists are much more in control than people thought, and it serves as a kind of break down moment for Raubahn as he goes from hell-bent on revenge to giving in for her sake...which will give the upcoming events involving him in Stormblood more dramatic weight (moments like after Baelsar's Wall and his look of resigned determination)...

But I don't think they sold what they were going for particularly well - instead of being all about this political intrigue and the fall and rise of the Bull of Ala Mhigo it comes across as a cheap "gotcha" at our expense.

While I like the Sultana I was actually getting psyched for her to die.. I was like OMG YES THE CHAOS.. Ul'dah in flames! A new marketboard aetheryte! THIS IS GOING TO BE GR--- wait.. what!? Pfft. "yay my queen lived.. woopie.." lol

I thought Ul'dah was going to have a really center plot.. I hope they don't always move to a new area and a new area and a new area - never to revist the momentum of older areas (I understand focus moving forward, just don't forget about the old stuff either :D).

Also I don't like people living too long, so I'm cool with all the death - to me it's important that you don't always know the death is coming though, makes it have a greater impact when it's actually a shock and not "lol, token chocobo".

They should definitely be concerned with expectation though, so I'm not suggesting every expansion be utter darkness.. and that's all we know from here till the end, but please don't "stop killing characters".

Stop killing off your villains after giving them barely enough screentime to register them as mildly interesting. For example

-Gaius' whole crew sans Nero. Even in 1.x, Gaius was underdeveloped compared to Nael. Gaius in 2.x has like two interactions with the player before he's dead.
-Hydrus. Dumb death. Felt forced because of the separation between MSQ and primal quests this expansion. He, at least, has more interaction with the player than others, but it still felt like it wasn't that much.
-Pope died at the end of Heavensward. Nidhogg took a while. We didn't really encounter them more than a couple of times each. The Heavens' Ward clearly had some personalities based on their in-battle dialog. Unfortunately we only interact with like three of them for the entire expansion. I guess we hate spear-of-light-thrower guy because he's kind of a dick and killed our buddy.
-Various ascians like Nabriales and that-chick-who-fused-with-Lahabrea.
-Warriors of Darkness - l o l

At least Elidibus is still alive. Lahabrea had a good run, too. To be fair, they do this with good guys as well - it was painfully obvious that scarface was going to disappear at the end of the terrible Alexander storyline and "special eye" catguy was going to go away at the end of CT. Sky Pirate man didn't disappear, but he's not really that important of a character in the grand scheme of things. Did Caith Sith go away? I don't even remember.

Their most developed villains have been Nael van Darnus (rip) and Nero. Nero's working with us right now, which is good, cause I bet he's gonna go rogue (again) in the expansion. Uh, if he didn't already. I don't remember if I finished the MSQ or not.

I don't like that the main emotional currency video game writers lean on involves killing off characters. Whenever I start to care about a character in a game, especially this one, I have to curb my investment because they're probably going to die. Or, if there is a big conflict, like with Ul'dah in 2.55, I have to remember that MMOs need to "continue" at all times even for players who aren't caught up in the MSQ, so they couldn't just have the city go up in flames. Things are too scripted; they also have to face the constraints from feedback that the quests were too long, so they pared down quests and streamlined them.

I doubt that the writers have as much freedom as, say, novelists who can do their own thing creatively, since they need to have things set in stone several patches ahead of time. I wish the creative leads overseeing the writers could stray away from these tropes entirely. There are more compelling and intelligent emotional beats to hit instead of killing people off or giving the illusion of mass murders and backstabbing for the sake of drama.

...if you guys think this game is bad for killing people, I could scarcely see you guys even survive reading Game of Thrones, much less watch it.

After that series of books, NOTHING is off the table anymore for anything I ever read or play.

I feel the problem though, is that because this keep using this particular emotional stake repetitively, we'll become desensitized.

Its kind of like how I react now when I watch Game of Thrones. I don't get shocked if someone dies. I can get kinda pissed if they were my favorite but I can't react the same way I did a couple seasons back anymore.

It also reminds me of Dragon Nest. Every favorite character I knew in that game pretty much died. I don't know if they ever finished the story there but I'm pretty sure if they introduced a npc, it probably died too.


What can you do? The setting is centered around the never ending supply of primals we have to defeat and people just keep dying in the line of fire because of it. I'm actually surprised Estinien survived the ordeal.

I actually really liked that the sultana didn't die due to Lolorito's meddling because it makes me hate that manipulative little slime even more. He makes a really good foil to Nanamo since you have the two extremes of Ul'dah there - compassion and capitalism.

I was surprised they didn't kill Estinien, but again glad. That would have been really trite. The idea of someone freed by death from the horrible things they've done is long played out. I was glad to see him live because now he has to make up for all of that and traverse a different path.

I think that's what bugs me about the latest death. It felt incredibly trite and forced and it really didn't buy us that much time at all. I felt it was very egregious. I'm okay with well-placed death. Haurchebro was a knife through my heart. But there have been a couple where I was just like "Really, SE?"

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Originally Posted by KrenianKandos

...if you guys think this game is bad for killing people, I could scarcely see you guys even survive reading Game of Thrones, much less watch it.

After that series of books, NOTHING is off the table anymore for anything I ever read or play.

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I don't care for Game of Thrones, but death is necessary for story progression. If a certain Lalafell didn't die, Lyse would not be leading a revolution in Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Stop killing off your villains after giving them barely enough screentime to register them as mildly interesting.

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I'd apply this to the primals. Ramuh left us with emotional baggage. The Warring Triad were just speed bumps.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

It also reminds me of Dragon Nest. Every favorite character I knew in that game pretty much died. I don't know if they ever finished the story there but I'm pretty sure if they introduced a npc, it probably died too.

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Oh hey, someone else from that game that I don't actually recognize immediately. And we're in the same server!

(You are... Actually right on the mark for what happens later in the story. At this point, the list of important plot NPCs actually allied with the player that are still alive is MUCH shorter than the ones that die, even excluding the ones that backstab you. It's become kind of a running gag, now that I think about it. I can actually sum up what happens, if I ever find you. Let's just say the lore these days is now painting a really depressing picture of the world, despite the bright and cherry aesthetics of it.)

I'm really glad OP isn't on this writing team.

They barely have enough time to develop the recurring cast they have already.

Krile has had no development since her introduction, all that development has (very thankfully, to be honest) gone to Unukalhai; she's literally just a mouthpiece to tell us about the Echo, which Unukalhai could do better considering his true age and experience, and sell cute figures. Y'shtola is basically just a fountain for witty comments at this point and hasn't had a personal conflict outside of the loss of her body/sight, which didn't even develop her personality or count as inner conflict, since 1.0. Moenbryda had no development at all. After more than 2 years in-game, Yugiri has only now started having a strictly defined personality that amounts to more than "honor-driven foreigner who cares for her people."

It took until 3.4 for Urianger to finally get some development since 1.0. 3.4!

And then we have the GC leaders. Merlwyb and Kan-E-Senna only had tiny little scenes in Heavensward to remind us they exist. Raubahn is the rightful exception.

Thancred and Minfilia are obvious exceptions but to me it shows that SE isn't very good at handling a large cast. FFXI's story succeeded because it focused on such a small cast with each expansion.

Heavensward also highly benefited from having fewer characters in its main cast. If it requires killing off characters rather than throwing them away never to be seen again, so be it.

That being said, I do find senseless self-sacrifice to be overdone in this title.

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Originally Posted by Fatestorm

Stop killing off your entire cast of characters.

You are allowed to have a large cast of characters. There is no limit.

You are allowed to make the stakes high without killing your characters.

This is a video game, not a comic book.

That is all.

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Wanna say that to George RR Martin?

I just really wanted Tataru to be the one leading the Lala shade at conclusion of 3.0.

I don't know what I would have enjoyed more, seeing that smiling unsuspecting Lala twist the knife into the back of the scions or all the salty tears from the community over that little plot twist.

I'm inclined to agree that we had a remarkably low body count so far.
The thing I take issue with is how some of those deaths played out.
There's Gaius who barely had enough screentime to remind us that he's one of the main antagonists before he's just ...dead.
There's Moenbryda "my whole purpose is delivering the newest plot device, with that done I'll just keel over and die now".
There's Nabriales and Igeyorm. I still feel like their main purpose was giving us a token victory over the ascians.

A lot of the death just seems to be lacking impact for me, especially when they've done so much better elsewhere in the story.
There's obviously Haurchebro but there's also Edda and her party. As far as I'm concerned Edda's story blows a lot of main character death out of the water as far as emotions go.


As for the lastest "death" in the main cast, in my mind he's going to be Schrödinger's lalafell until I see a body.

Why do lots of people feel like everyone is dying with Ysayle and Haurchefant, Moenbryda and Papalymo dead lmao, there's plenty other character alive and some other to come in SB. Within 4 year, 4 death is a pretty good ratio, 1/year.

Well, the Scions feel like they took some hits for sure.

We lost Minfilia, Papalymo, and Yda. Arguably we lost Yda ages ago, but the reveal was pretty recent. This leaves us with Thancred and Y'shtola. Well, Urianger too, but he's such a background character its honestly not difficult to forget about him. At the least we've gained Alphinaud and Alisae in that time frame, but its starting to feel like the Scions are just going to end up answering to Papa Thancred and Mamma Y'shtola from now on, in terms of seniority and all. Krile was a nice addition but so far I'm not seeing them doing much for the MSQ, kind of just floating as a background character like Urianger, just with a bit more screentime.

Guess we'll see who bites the dust come Stormblood. I imagine we'll be losing quite a few characters. The only ones I imagine to have thick enough plot armor to survive now would be Thancred, Y'shtola, Alphinaud, and Alisae. I wouldn't be shocked if they killed Alphinaud -or- Alisae either, just to give the other more development.

Something else I'm thinking we might see is more permanent, long-lasting injuries. Like Thancred's compromised Aether, or how Rhauban lost an arm. Imagine Alphinaud in a Wheelchair or something for the rest of his life. I could see SE going that route.

Personally, I think it's nice to know that the Scion's aren't untouchable. The Sultana's "miraculous" recovery felt really cheap to me, her assassination was tragic, but it was also very exciting to me. The fact that the plot basically said, "Just kidding!" and reset Ul'dah to the status quo was a big letdown. While I'm not looking for Game-of-Thrones-style levels of anyone-can-die, when SE DOES decide that the plot call for a character's death, I want that death to stick. It's hard to get emotionally invested in dangerous situations when I know that no matter what happens, everyone's going to pull through unscathed.

(For the record, though, I don't count Yda's death. Lyse is the only Yda I've ever known, so the revelation that Yda wasn't the "real" Yda wasn't very hard-hitting.)

Im far more concered with the villiains dying tbh. before they are etablished

Im fine with the other deaths. Doesnt mean everyone was executed very well or something but im fed up with going against a world ending threat against something and nobody dies or one token character like in in most rpgs and especially mmorpgs

Not killing of characters give a lot of needless characters Mary Sue vibes and gets super predictable.

They've killed off allies and villains a like. Not every villain needs to have a lot of screen time to make them more of a villain than they already are. Especially with the type of villains our character tends to get into tussles with: often leaders in positions of power; they're likely to be able to get away, taunting our hero or square off to fight to the death. Plus, the FFXIV is a multi-layered war- prepare for more deaths.

That being said, the only "villain" I can see genuinely lasting a while is the new emperor and Nero (since he's filling the trope of anti-hero).

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Originally Posted by HaelseMikiro

I think the death toll of named characters for 4 years (earth time) of constant war with primals, garleans and dragons is actually at a reasonable level.

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It would be nice if they didn't kill off all of their actually interesting characters, leaving us with only the bland ones...

SE also has a bad habit of engaging in the act of "only give X character lots of development right before you kill them".

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Originally Posted by Yoshiyuki

I don't like that the main emotional currency video game writers lean on involves killing off characters. Whenever I start to care about a character in a game, especially this one, I have to curb my investment because they're probably going to die.

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Yes, yes, yes, yes. This so much! It's cheap. And then of course SE actually fails to follow through on the ONE death that would have had legitimate build up and emotional impact (Sultana) because they... what, got scared? But I guess it's easy for them to create female characters to kill off whenever they please to fuel cheap emotional ends.

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Originally Posted by KrenianKandos

...if you guys think this game is bad for killing people, I could scarcely see you guys even survive reading Game of Thrones, much less watch it.

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Killing a character should be something given serious thought. It should never be used simply to up emotional stakes. I despise Song of Ice & Fire/Game of Thrones because it uses that play far too much (among other reasons). Good writing does not have to depend on character death to stoke the flames of reader/viewer emotion. Instead, character death should be a carefully considered tool given proper respect and delivered with precision. When your readers spend more time guessing "Who is going to die next?" instead of getting invested in the story, then you have made a huge mistake.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Killing a character should be something given serious thought. It should never be used simply to up emotional stakes. I despise Song of Ice & Fire/Game of Thrones because it uses that play far too much (among other reasons). Good writing does not have to depend on character death to stoke the flames of reader/viewer emotion. Instead, character death should be a carefully considered tool given proper respect and delivered with precision. When your readers spend more time guessing "Who is going to die next?" instead of getting invested in the story, then you have made a huge mistake.

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I wouldn't say that Game of Thrones is "careless," exactly. It simply tends to deconstruct a lot of the tropes that we've gotten far too used to in fiction. The fact that a person is an important character, or has built up a lot of potential, is not enough to save them when an enemy has them dead-to-rights. Nor is a character entitled to a blaze of glory - many of them die senseless and ignoble deaths. We've gotten far too reliant on narrow escapes and last-minute rescues, and the fact that these things rarely happen when they "should" is one of the reasons folks get so surprised when they read the series. The death toll in Game of Thrones is interesting not because it is high, but in that so many of those deaths are completely unpredictable from the standpoint of a modern reader of fiction.

Does this game need to go a similar path in order to be narratively sound? No. However, the Final Fantasy fanbase has matured to the point where we really shouldn't be seeing things like a character sacrificing themselves with a bomb (FFIV's Cid) only to miraculously survive. Don't play games with our hearts!

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

It took until 3.4 for Urianger to finally get some development since 1.0. 3.4!

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I guess the end of Moenbryda doesn't count as development for Urianger, somehow?

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That last guy to recently die ..... I never saw a corpse, and this is SE we're talking about. Anything's possible.

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Just calling it....he'll be our NPC guide for the Interdimensional Rift, like Alisae was for BCoB.

The Walking Dead comic is far worse for character deaths. Specifically the comic and not so much the show. The show as more plot armor on characters that prevent certain deaths. A couple of characters suffer from it in the comic, but not to the extent as the show.

I think the issue [that many people here have] is that the story needs a bunch of characters to get the story going as this is more world involved than other Final Fantasy titles. Sure, you might have a black smith that helps you out in a town on your quest. However, he's nameless and just otherwise goes back to making weapons because he's not special. There's no reason for him to have character development. Most other titles, it's just your band of merry men (and ladies) to save a world for a vastly powerless people. That isn't so much the case here in FFXIV; it's a power struggle with several characters willing to help our single Warrior of Light (also a huge difference- we have ONE Warrior of Light, not several). This means you need a large presence of characters to fill roles, but if you leave them in the limelight for too long, there is no development for them later. Or they can detract from the story.

Example: Urianger. Recently had a bit of character development, but had small instances along the way that are probably forgotten by most players. His character development was not a lot nor sudden, like Moenbryda.
Example: Alisae. Mostly vanished in 2.0 sans for dealing with the Coil of Bahamut- a sidequest tied to raids that many did not do because raids. Made a re-appearance in 3.0 in time for the Warriors of Darkness. Again, with the large stint in development, people probably think it's sudden. 2.0's Coil story actually set the record for her reappearance at a later date with a saying repeated by Moenbryda (or was it the other way around? Either or, it was an echo'd statement).
Example: Raubahn. Mainly a speculation thing here. His presence was very fleeting, as much as Merlwyb. At least Kan-E-Senna has the connection with the elementals to pull her in and make her relevant here and there. However, with his home coming into light, I expect to see far more of the Flame General. He had some character development near the start of 3.0, but it was quickly overshadowed and probably forgotten by most players.

Other characters had development in 1.0, but unless you played 1.0 or watched older player video uploads, you'd not know they existed and had established personalities and growths already.

Example: Lousoix (technically did not die until Final Coil, Turn 3), Minfilia, Thancred, Y'shtola, Yda and Papalymo.
Example: Edda. Yes. Edda from Tam-tara and Palace of the Dead. From what I remember, you had to persuade her from persuing the path of necromancy. This is completely gone from 2.0 until Tam-tara Hard Mode and fully brought back to the limelight in Palace of the Dead. It also completely makes more sense as to what the final boss says about Edda knowing she was originally going to pursue necromancy.

I just think most people have a hard time keeping track of things at large. The Scions mostly deal with primals and want to be neutral of the workings of other city-states. This means, by default, the Scion related characters will have limited screen time and bursts of relevancy or development that's brought to the fore. However, as the story progresses and Alphinaud's interests in politics rears it's head, I see the Scions steering away from "we do primals only" to "yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. Hydaelyn really needs us. Especially if we want to thwart the Ascians." Then again, I've always had this mentality with people saying things like "Squall is dead," "Why do only Sophie and Irvine remember the others?" or "FFX has time travel," "why did Tidus vanish?" or "Why can't we raise Aerith?"

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

That being said, the only "villain" I can see genuinely lasting a while is the new emperor and Nero (since he's filling the trope of anti-hero).

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Watch Zenos kill his father and become the new "new emperor" in 4.55.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I guess the end of Moenbryda doesn't count as development for Urianger, somehow?

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Ah, yes, the classic: Woman introduced and shown to be quite competent (and confident) and has an unspoken romantic connection between a main male character. Woman is quickly killed to provide motivation for male character.

Not exactly great writing.

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Originally Posted by Tharne

Watch Zenos kill his father and become the new "new emperor" in 4.55.

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I'm half leaning toward him starting to turncoat after encountering the Scions and the WoL. I think that chick with the pipe (I..... am not going to remember her name for a while) is the real villain for the Far East. Afterall, come time to march on Garlemald, we'll need someone who knows the innermost workings for the city. As much as I love Cid, it's been nigh on 6 years since he's been in Garlemald, lore-wise. I'm working off the statement made that Zenos is "not like the others." A pretty vague statement that leaves many doors open.

I suppose there's always Nero, but with Garlemald being so militaristic, I can't see him still having as much access or influence as he once did.

I don't like killing characters only to bring them back later, why even kill them in the first place? Or worse yet, kill a character and then bring out a perfect twin, which even specializes in the same areas.

Please Square, if you kill someone they better be dead for good.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Ah, yes, the classic: Woman introduced and shown to be quite competent (and confident) and has an unspoken romantic connection between a main male character. Woman is quickly killed to provide motivation for male character.

Not exactly great writing.

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Not saying it was great. I'd've loved for Moenbryda to stick around a while. I'm just saying it doesn't seem right to ignore what seems like valid development. Especially since, as I recall, the Moenbryda incident informed Urianger's later interactions with the WoD.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

-Warriors of Darkness - l o l

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They are not dead oO
They went home, together with Minfilia

ITT: armchair writers who think they know how to tell a story. (Disclaimer: I am a published author).

Deaths are a very effective means of telling a story. In fact, there isn't enough death (as another poster has stated, we have too many characters who receive little and / or insufficient character development).

If FF XIV was a novel, it would be less egregious; but as it is, a slew of characters need to be cleared off the board so the writers can focus on meaningful character development.

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

Im far more concered with the villiains dying tbh. before they are etablished

Im fine with the other deaths. Doesnt mean everyone was executed very well or something but im fed up with going against a world ending threat against something and nobody dies or one token character like in in most rpgs and especially mmorpgs

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This.

This is exactly what happened with Igeyorhm and Igeyorhm is responsible for creating the void. A ttidbit that wasn't even mentioned in-game, but had to be told to us through the lore book, despite the fact that it makes her perhaps the most influential antagonist in the lore we've met so far. More villain development is exactly what we need at this point rather than a larger cast of protagonists. A smaller, properly trimmed cast would be beneficial to the writing of this game.

(Another example would be that 3.56 instance villain who just appeared out of nowhere and was so cartoony it isn't even funny).

I don't really have high hopes for SB in this regard.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Not saying it was great. I'd've loved for Moenbryda to stick around a while. I'm just saying it doesn't seem right to ignore what seems like valid development. Especially since, as I recall, the Moenbryda incident informed Urianger's later interactions with the WoD.

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Moenbryda served as a bridge of sorts. She came from Old Sharlyan, right? That's even more west than the Dravanian Hinterlands and I suspect we'll eventually end up there. The lore book mentions relics, Tupsumati being such a relic and that there are many more around. We don't exactly have a store of white auracite and we were only able to cut down the Ascian with what was equivalent exchange: a life for a life. As it is, we currently lack a means of eradicating an Ascian, still, yet the story has shown 3 instances of ways to kill them, possibly 4:
1) Moenbryda's sacrifice (a life for a life as stored using white auracite- extremely temporary);
2) Nidhogg's Eyes;
3) Relics that can funnel and call upon large amounts of Aether, like Tupsumatic (the Lousoix's staff that Papalymo last had, so yes, I also lean on the possibility of him maybe being alive. I would assume the spell would kill you, otherwise, if you didn't have that particular relic).

With the echo'd statement from Lousoix (also said to Alisae) to find a reason [of your own] to forge your own path. Pretty sure that's why Urianger played the role the way he did with the Warriors of Darkness.

... Plus Moenbryda's minion made Urianger look like a pervert, which I thought was funny.

It's starting to feel a little to much like a boring episode of game of thrones. Where next to nothing happens until they kill someone.

Ultimately I get the feeling that the entire plot for heavensward was to get rid of the remaining scion group as they were and replace with what they call "better" or more... broke versions of the characters we once had.

Thancred use to be fun, now he's just .... boring. Y'shtola is killing herself because "reasons, Alphys growing up and Urianger suddenly became awkward and slightly cheerful. Oh and spoiler, Yda is not Yda. Because Surprise! Soup opera!