WHM AF3 Concern

Let me first say I LOVE the WHM AF3 design for the most part. However. . .

The flared collar. . . thing in the back is going to clip though any long hairstyle and weapons. Not a big deal in the greater scheme of things, but this one is really going to stand out.

Devs, you might want to reconsider that one detail before everything is finalized. Personally I say remove it, but that's just my opinion. Fact is, it's really gonna stand out in all the wrong ways.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Let me first say I LOVE the WHM AF3 design for the most part. However. . .

The flared collar. . . thing in the back is going to clip though any long hairstyle and weapons. Not a big deal in the greater scheme of things, but this one is really going to stand out.

Devs, you might want to reconsider that one detail before everything is finalized. Personally I say remove it, but that's just my opinion. Fact is, it's really gonna stand out in all the wrong ways.

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I get where you are comming from, but what about those of us who play with short hair and like the flared collar? I think a better suggestion would be to ask for two versions of the WHM outfit, one for those that like the collar and one for those that dont want it. On the other hand if SE accepts this suggestion, it will only mean that for each gear released, players will ask for stuff to be changed, because it clips (or looks weird) with their character. Its going to open a big pandora's box.

This is why I think asking for two version, one with collar and one without is the best solution for us, not sure if it is for the developers.

They don't care about clipping.

They could bring out a short hairstyle as WHM jobquest reward. For every AF a fitting hairstyle ^^

Perhaps there will be an option similar to the visor option that allows players to remove it, or adjust it. I agree with Fyce that the devs probably don't care much about clipping, but they should at least keep the longer hairstyles in mind with gear design.

The hairstyle system that TERA Online had would work so well with FFXIV. When you have no collar, you have your current long hairstyle, when you equip a armour that has a collar and will clip with your hairstyle, the hairstyle transforms into a ponytail, twintail, buns etc.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

The hairstyle system that TERA Online had would work so well with FFXIV. When you have no collar, you have your current long hairstyle, when you equip a armour that has a collar and will clip with your hairstyle, the hairstyle transforms into a ponytail, twintail, buns etc.

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No thank you, Im actually glad FFXIX doesnt do anything like this. Id like to choose myself what my hair looks like.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

No thank you, Im actually glad FFXIX doesnt do anything like this. Id like to choose myself what my hair looks like.

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If I am remember correctly, there is a option to keep your hairstyle like how it works in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Let me first say I LOVE the WHM AF3 design for the most part. However. . .

The flared collar. . . thing in the back is going to clip though any long hairstyle and weapons. Not a big deal in the greater scheme of things, but this one is really going to stand out.

Devs, you might want to reconsider that one detail before everything is finalized. Personally I say remove it, but that's just my opinion. Fact is, it's really gonna stand out in all the wrong ways.

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While I agree with your sentiment... its far too late. Everything was "finalized" long before we ever saw it. Feedback like this helps for the future but comes way too late in the process to affect anything forthcoming in a few weeks.

I don't think we need to make this overly complicated. Sometimes we get coats that look better with short hair and sometimes coats that look better with long hair. It's what glamour and the aesthetician is for.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Let me first say I LOVE the WHM AF3 design for the most part. However. . .

The flared collar. . . thing in the back is going to clip though any long hairstyle and weapons. Not a big deal in the greater scheme of things, but this one is really going to stand out.

Devs, you might want to reconsider that one detail before everything is finalized. Personally I say remove it, but that's just my opinion. Fact is, it's really gonna stand out in all the wrong ways.

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What they need to do is make it so that the flared collar can be folded down if desired, and either make it fold down for hair that will clip, or alternately, give the player a command to use that switches between flared and folded as needed. It would also work for metal armor in that you could reason that for longer hair you install a different shoulder/neck piece that lays more flatly than the many flared neck/shoulder protectors. This would resolve a lot of hair/gear clipping issues.

What they need to do is design a physics system worth a shit. I know they've said they 'don't care about clipping', but why, exactly, aren't people holding their feet to the fire on this? I can't be the only person who intentionally constructs their appearance in such a way as to minimize the embarrassing amount of clipping in this game. Now that the ancient PS3 is being deprecated, surely they can put a bit of work into the game engine so that FFXIV's clipping no longer resembles a game from the turn of the century?

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

What they need to do is design a physics system worth a shit. I know they've said they 'don't care about clipping', but why, exactly, aren't people holding their feet to the fire on this? I can't be the only person who intentionally constructs their appearance in such a way as to minimize the embarrassing amount of clipping in this game. Now that the ancient PS3 is being deprecated, surely they can put a bit of work into the game engine so that FFXIV's clipping no longer resembles a game from the turn of the century?

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Physics won't help long hair that either lays over the flared neck, or pools inside it. In real life, you would fold the collar, or modify the armor to let hair hang properly - or as some already suggested, change to shorter hair. I don't prefer the shorter hair much, but until the game let's me remove the clippy collars, I am forced to use shorter styles or endure annoying clipping.

Like I said, it's not a big deal in the greater scheme of things (and would honestly be an easy fix besides), but for gear that's supposed to be a signature to the job it's intended for, one would think care would be taken to consider the various looks/styles possible in game. I'm no less looking forward to it besides.

Sometimes all it takes to get around clipping issues is to make use of a different /changepose option. That worked for me to prevent Trey's hairstyle from clipping with the armour I used at the time. Clipping is just an unfortunate occurrence in MMO's - be it FFXIV, WoW or others. I've never played an MMO that didn't have the problem to some extent.

If I'm not mistaken, the male version of this item is pretty radically different and has a fitted collar, rather than the cool flared one female characters get. I know I was happy to see I'd be able to use a longer hairstyle with the AF this time, but kinda disappointed at the closed shoulders, so I guess it's a trade-off.

A toggle between the two versions of the model could help, though, if they were willing to take the dev time to make the necessary fixes to the models..Though I wouldn't say no to a Tera-style switch to an updo with clip-happy gear, either, as long as I could disable it.

Remove all hairstyles but bald and problem solved ^^

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Remove all hairstyles but bold and problem solved ^^

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Even bald eagles aren't bald :/

They don't give a shite. Trust me.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

They don't give a shite. Trust me.

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History and patch notes show that if people DO care enough, they'll move on things. Maybe not right away, but they will.

If I say nothing, guaranteed it won't change. But if I do, if enough players do, there IS the chance something could be done.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

History and patch notes show that if people DO care enough, they'll move on things. Maybe not right away, but they will.

If I say nothing, guaranteed it won't change. But if I do, if enough players do, there IS the chance something could be done.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

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In this case is a money "problem" and also if a player is really bothered by this kind of thing most likely is already using a short hairstyle, like me. The option to adapt every hairstyle is why we don't get that many, it does not only make it for each race/sex but you also had to adapt it for every headgear variation.

But yeah, SE care about this stuff, you can tell, but here perhaps the ultimate problem is players choice, certain gear doesn't mix with long hair.

Yeah, it's not a problem exclusive to just this one piece of gear. The difference however is that this is not yet released. I would imagine it's easier to change in development than it might be after it's been patched in. Making them aware of such a thing is primarily what I wanted to do.

There were a TON on complaints about how tails look in this outfit, not only was in never changed but a recolored version was used for leveling gear with the same design and issue. I doubt they will make any changes.
http://i.imgur.com/6l2P87A.png

I say again:

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

The difference however is that this is not yet released. I would imagine it's easier to change in development than it might be after it's been patched in.

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If it remains the same, it's no big deal. Newer gear will come, people will glamour old and new favorites regardless. But why see the potential issue and just go "oh they don't care so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"?

Glamour, concern over the artifact 3 gear isn't that important. You might not like it but there will be many people who do OP. If you don't like it then Glamour.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

What they need to do is design a physics system worth a shit. I know they've said they 'don't care about clipping', but why, exactly, aren't people holding their feet to the fire on this?

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because of this
http://www.siliconera.com/wordpress/...03/photo31.jpg

nobody wants that to come back so we're okay with some clipping here and there.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Yeah, it's not a problem exclusive to just this one piece of gear. The difference however is that this is not yet released. I would imagine it's easier to change in development than it might be after it's been patched in. Making them aware of such a thing is primarily what I wanted to do.

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isn't it in the benchmark? this is an item model, that means it's already been developed. this is not some function that they talked about that hasn't been designed yet.

I have short hair and hate flared collars. I'm down for nyxing it.

The collar does seem a bit superfluous, but as long as they've designed it so that it doesn't clip canes, I can live with it.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

isn't it in the benchmark? this is an item model, that means it's already been developed. this is not some function that they talked about that hasn't been designed yet.

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It IS in the benchmark, and that means it HAS been finished. But it is not fully patched in yet. Would it make more sense to say "Hey, this noticeably looks bad (for the program issue of clipping, not simply glamour so let's let that line of thought die there), let's just patch it later," or say "Hey, this noticeably looks bad. See if the modeling team can work in a quick fix on this before release"?

Were this a technical issue like a skill not activating on time or spell/skill effects missing and it were pointed out, would it be okay to just say nothing?

The topic has shifted a bit from simply noting that it has the potential to clip to justifying whether it's worth pointing out something can be potentially wrong. People point out errors that slipped through the cracks before, and maybe they have or haven't been fixed. I simply saw something that may potentially look bad, even if it's minor, and spoke up on it. Maybe it was an oversight? Maybe it got the okay from QC and it's a non issue? All I can do is say "Hey this might be a thing," and I feel that's rather valid. What they do with it from there is on them.

Start looking for a new hairdo. :)

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Physics won't help long hair that either lays over the flared neck, or pools inside it. In real life, you would fold the collar, or modify the armor to let hair hang properly - or as some already suggested, change to shorter hair. I don't prefer the shorter hair much, but until the game let's me remove the clippy collars, I am forced to use shorter styles or endure annoying clipping.

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Physics engines are responsible for handling clipping issues. It might look wonky for other purposes, but a proper physics engine wouldn't allow the type of clipping we currently see, because the hair and armour would be considered two separate objects that collide rather than intersect. Your point is well-taken, though, in that SE also needs to take into account hairstyles and such when designing gear in the first place.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

because of this
http://www.siliconera.com/wordpress/...03/photo31.jpg

nobody wants that to come back so we're okay with some clipping here and there.

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I think that's a bit of a false equivalence. I can't think of a mainstream title being released in the last 5-10 years with similarly bad clipping problems. If other companies can manage it, why can't we expect the same from SE? Just because XIV 1.0 had a terribly-optimized inefficient mess of an engine doesn't mean we should all just nod our heads and accept it when they half-ass parts of the "upgraded" version.

Also, 1.0 would be an utter breeze to run on modern hardware. Hell, I had a laptop that ran it in a playable state - seven years ago. It's time to bring back the fancy shaders, high polygon counts, improved physics systems, and higher texture resolutions. The hardware can handle it.

There are plenty of other games that came out in the past 10 years with clipping issues. GW2 for example.

Its kind of beside the point. Frankly overhauling the engine to have a more advanced physics engine, assuming that the existing game engine can facilitate such an upgrade, is probably far from cost effective for the benefits. Most games with equivalent physics engines launch with them as a core part of the games structure rather than trying to integrate such a system at a later date. With major engine overhauls its usually easier building from scratch than retrofitting. Too many moving parts could be thrown out of whack. Frankly I would be highly surprised if it would be worth the investment of resources and there are things for the game I would vastly prefer they spend money on.

I would also point out that while your system can handle it, other players systems might not. MMOs generally have to pander to a very wide audience so they are careful to allow a low minimum spec.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

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They should look into retooling the engine for future expansions though, with the issues of clipping, the game could handle it a little better, with some hairstyles and chest pieces the clipping is awful, I wouldn't say game breaking, but in some regard it looks rushed. To me it sort of hinders character customization, tails bleed through and look horribly detached from the body, and long hair cuts through everything as if it were and hot knife to butter.

You're correct with system requires though, but we're in this weird time where consoles are offering upgraded versions to keep games running and looking great. If I can boldly speak, I wouldn't be surprised if by 6.0 there wouldn't be talks of dropping the ps4, in favor of the Pro, since by then the Pro would be more affordable and not to mention Sony would likely have something coming out to compete with the Scorpio. With this in mind, I wouldn't rule out them considering a physics change, and while I realize this is all hypothetical, the truth is if they don't look to jump the game up in terms of performance with each new expansion, then the game will fall flat.