Hey look, a crafter not asking for some generic boring rotation!
Gotten my crafters to 50 and having a bit of a pause before advancing to HW (eventually), and looking for a few pointers as I try to figure out how best to utilize these new skills with my old techniques.
So, first thing I'm noticing, the Brand of ______ skills are kinda clogging up cross-class abilities now; are they ever particularly useful at this stage? I don't think I've seen any end-ARR crafting that needs them, and I get the impression that by using all the more useful skills, I won't really miss the lower efficiency even if I there are any, maybe?
Actual skills:
Comfort Zone. Obviously I've seen this all over while checking things out. This seems like the skill to have up at all times? Unless I'm getting low on CP and don't have the time to wait for the recharge. But, near as I can tell, other than that, never a reason not to use?
Piece by Piece. Straightforward 45 CP to finish a craft. Sounds maybe useful if I guess I don't have the durability for anything more and I guess absolutely need those 3 turns to finish it? Idk. This one sounds a bit on the useless side, unless there are some really hard crafts somewhere that this will be my best option for progress. But much like the Brand skills, I can probably get away without it?
Actually, could it sort of act like a replacement for the Brands? Does it ignore elemental affinity? That could be cool. Still not very useful, but maybe a little cool.
Ingenuity (1 and 2). Literally never found a use for these. They do sorta sound like they could be useful, but it's just not very clear what "lowering recipe level" actually does while crafting. No idea how best to utilize this anywhere. Is it useful for improving quality, or progress?
Byregot's Blessing. This one seems a bit weird for me. A bit situational. There are times when I need the bit of extra CP from Rumination. And obviously I don't want to blow my Inner Quiet too early. So far, I've been looking at this as my Excellent skill. As long as that doesn't pop too early, can make some massive progress that way. I suppose I could also be using this when I feel like I've got quality close enough that it would finish off, but I'd hate to guess wrong and still be short and also no Inner Quiet so slower gains, and also need to balance that with any CP I might need to finish progress. I feel like keeping this skill is good, but I haven't figured out where it best fits in.
Reclaim. Ehhhh. At this level, definitely feels like a waste of a cross-class slot.
Waste Not 2. Basically +40 durability. But only if you're using solely Touch or Synthesis skills. This feels a bit lossy compared to Manipulation or even Master's Mend. I never really even used the Waste Not 1 unless I let durability get too low and needed a little longer to finish.
Careful Synthesis 2. Straightforward replacement of the first skill which I basically never need again. At this point I could probably be getting away with using better Synthesis skills, but, I do like the reliability.
Innovation. This one feels a little tricky. I don't know if I could ever fit it into the 40 material crafting without wasting a stack. Crafting bigger things, maybe. This feels like it's best held back until you've got a few Inner Quiet stacks already, to buff the buff. But I also have trouble sometimes getting all my other buffs to line up just right to give me 3 clear turns, and I suppose I shouldn't worry too much if I lose out on any ToT usage, the bonus Control on top of a Good would probably make up for it. Like Byregot's, another one that seems smart to have, but not necessarily used for every craft.
Any tips for what to do with some of these that I might not have thought of? If it matters at all, so far I've been using the Inner Quiet-Steady Hand II-Hasty Touch-(Tricks of the Trade) method with pretty good results. But with the 1- and 2-star crafting I'm hitting, just want to be sure I'm not wasting some of my skills that could be helping more than I realize.
Level 50 skills advice
Printable View
-
05-01-2017, 02:11 PMHasratLevel 50 skills advice
-
05-01-2017, 02:24 PMSilverbaneMy advice is based on L60 crafting: I didn't spend much time at L50 and as a L60 crafters, that L50 stuff is cake. So not everyitnhg I say may apply to your situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
Piece-by-Piece doesn't work like you think: each time you use it, it gives you one-third of the remaining difficulty as progress. So, if your craft is, say, 810 difficulty, the first PbP gives you 810/3 = 270 progress, leaving you 540 to go, and the second PbP gives you 540/3 = 180 progress, leaving you 360 to go. The third PbP would give only 360/3 = 120 progress, leaving you 240 to go. Sad truth is, you can't practically finish the craft with just PbP. It's still really useful, though.
Ingenuity makes a big difference in progress for three and four star crafts, but it's not a must-have in the rotations most people use.
Byregot's Blessing is a must-have for high level crafting. It's usually the very last Quality-improving step in a craft.
Waste Not 2 is very CP efficient, it gets used a lot. Sequences like "SH2 WN2 HastyTouch(HT)x4 SH2 HTx3" are pretty commonly used at L60: seven HastyTouches for 35 durability and 148CP.
The progress skill Rapid Synthesis (ARM 15, 250% percent progress, 50% success rate before buffing) is favored by people who like to get things done fast and don't mind a little risk. -
05-01-2017, 02:52 PMHasrat
Ahh, I should've expected that with Piece by Piece. Makes more sense. So, definitely best to use early on, until other synthesis skills are better. I can see that working out.
WN2, I can see how it's efficient and all, but, idk. Suppose it's probably the quicker method. Good for a long string of Normals, or just generally ignoring condition. That one's tricky for me to see which technique feels better for me.
Byregot. Do most high-end crafters just sort of know how much Quality they need to be at (and IQ stacks) before using it? I definitely see it being a big time saver. I think it'll just take me a while to get a feel for when it's enough to finish 100%. -
05-01-2017, 07:34 PMRoth_Trailfinder
Crafting is simpler than you may think. In a nutshell, work on Progress until your next Careful Synthesis 2 would finish the job, then work on Quality. Add as much as you can, using CP in the best manner possible, making sure to save 96 (or 99) CP for the point you are down to 20 Durability. At that point, Steady Hand (or SH2), Great Strides, Innovation, Byregot's Blessing, Careful Synthesis 2. That is conditional, however - at any point after the SH that you get Excellent, hit BB immediately (and continue on from where I said Byregot's Blessing). If you have a GOOD, then instead of hitting Innovation, hit BB. This is because of how strong the various moves are relative to the conditions.
The Brands are not useful at level 50 crafting, not that I recall. There are higher level (level 54?) skills that buff the Brands for 5 moves and then cannot be used again, and the buffed Brands are of limited use still. Generally speaking, you'll be using Rapid Synthesis, Careful Synthesis 2, and Piece by Piece as your primary Progress moves, which one(s) depends upon exactly what you are doing, how much Progress you need, and how much Craftsmanship you have (no point in spending the 15 CP on PBP if it gets you less Progress than a CS2, for example). However, you want to save most of your CP for two things : Durability restore, and 100% Touches.
The bigger you bump your IQ stack, the more effective BB will be. So, spending 18 CP to turn Hasty Touch into Basic Touch can be valuable. However, you also need the Durability, so using Waste Not, Waste Not 2 (which I personally do not use), Manipulation, and Master's Mend 2 to get you that extra Durability helps a ton. Just be sure that you have SH2 up when making most, if not all, of your Touches. At 53 (I think) you'll get an awesome skill that really helps to emphasize saving some CP for HT->BT conversions, as the move adds an extra IQ stack but is otherwise just like a Basic Touch, but only usable on Good/Excellent.
Once you got Byregot's, you should have started to wean yourself off of Rumination. Byregot's is just too important. The best use for Rumination at this point is to get you some extra CP so you can Reclaim, and that's only if things are going badly (a bunch of failed HT's, for example). Personally, I cannot spare the cross class slots for both Rumination and Reclaim ...
Comfort Zone : use as long as you are going to be able to draw the craft out at least 9 of the 10 charges. If not, it is a waste of CP.
Innovation : unless you get a Good/Excellent, be sure to use this to help bump BB. Its also the only thing you can do to improve Quality moves once IQ has reached 11. Not really necessary to use during a craft, though it can help. My testing has shown that it actually provides a greater cumulative benefit (assuming all 3 Touches land) earlier on than later; this surprised me as I'd expected the benefit to remain the same regardless of the IQ stack. -
05-02-2017, 01:30 AMcgbspender
There is some more data about control gain / CP recovery with Rumination versus IQ stacks here. It's a bit advanced but the pictures are crystal clear.
If I remember correctly, Byregot's potency is 400% (as opposed to a "touch" 100%), and exponentially increased by the amount of control you reached (=IQ stacks)
Part 1 : https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ing_mechanics/
Part 2 : https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ics_part_deux/
Note that these datas are a couple of years old, and some of them no longer apply. Most of them still do, however. -
05-02-2017, 03:57 AMCaimie_Tsukino*thumbs up* Finally!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
They're not useful at all from lvl 1 to 50. But beyond 50, they sometimes can do interesting things. Even when you're working on an unaspected (non-elemental) item, Ingen2 + Name of xxx + Brand of xxx gives huge amounts of progress. Most of the 35 durab items can be done in 1 shot like this. I never used them very much, but they can be useful at times. The reason I never used them much, is because not every class have these elemental names + brands. If you're too used to using these, then it's a pain when you use a class that doesn't have it (you can equip them as cross class skills, but it'll sacrifice 2 spots, which is a big deal). Personally, I find "Ingen2 + Careful Syn II" or "Ingen2 + Standard Syn" to be more commonly used in my rotation. Rapid Syn is pretty strong too, but due to its low fidelity, most of us have gradually ditched this skill for something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
When you try to set up a 1-button macro for something, you have plenty of CP, but you only have 15 actions to work with, then sometimes not using this can allow you to add one more line of action, such as a touch... which in turn gives a lot more power to the final Byregot's Blessing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
Silverbane already explained this above. It's an almost-essential skill to have. You will see how useful it is when you start playing with Heavensward 1* to 4* recipes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
Ingen1 is rather weak. But Ingen2 works wonders post level 50. It's super powerful in helping progress, and it also slightly helps with quality. Silverbane has already explained this too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
This is the "Kamehameha" (google this if you don't know what this is) of crafting. The only time that you would use Rumination over Byregot is if you're soooo low leveled that you can only afford to reach IQ3 or fewer IQ stacks. Otherwise, one should always use Byregot's Blessing. The way to use this is to (1) always pair it up with Great Strides (unless you got an Excellent condition, which, you just press it directly), (2) always have Steady Hand or Steady Hand II to make it 100% secure, (3) when ever available, buff it up with Innovation/Ingen2 (but skip these if you got a Good condition).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
The "magic of Byregot's Blessing" is that, even though you may seem to be only reaching less than half the quality bar, and with an HQ rate of something like 18%, if you have a huge IQ stack and with proper buffs on your final Blessing, you will instantly shoot the quality bar to max with this single action.
I extracted the following data from my old crafting guide (which you can find by simply googling "FFXIV crafting"). They may give you some ideas on how the quality thingy works, and how Byregot works.
http://oi62.tinypic.com/21njpm1.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/11jlu78.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/4i0979.jpg
You don't need this unless your mats cost over a million... but it WILL happen to you... soon!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
Waste Not is actually one of my favorites. Its advantages come from its low CP cost and flexibility. It allows you to take 1 Trick of Trade in the middle without wasting any durability (does not apply to 35 durab items). Waste Not 2 is just way too inflexible when it comes to taking Trick of Trades. But WN2 is very powerful for macros, which Trick of Trade is not used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
Innov is usually NOT a skill which you use multiple times during a rotation. It's usually planted in the final Byregot's phase. It can either be just buffing the Byregot's Blessing, or it can be used to buff a touch before the Great Strides+Byregot as well. Either way, you won't be taking any Trick of Trades in the middle of it. If you're powering through a easy item though, you may use it multiple times to buff a series of Great Strides+Advanced Touches. It is one of the quickest methods to increase quality while burning CP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
If you'd like to read a bit more about these different level 50 cross class skills, you can visit Chapter 10 of my old crafting guide. It's possible you might pick up something new. I have also listed some nice examples of how to utilize them. -
05-02-2017, 06:47 AMcgbspender
such amazing data :o I didn't know you had worked on this, Caimie. Beautiful !
-
05-02-2017, 09:48 AMCaimie_TsukinoThanks! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by cgbspender
-
05-02-2017, 10:37 AMHasrat
Good tips on pairing Innovation with Byregot. And Great Strides, another skill that has seen zero use thus far.
I think what I need to look at now is changing my approach slightly. Up until now I've been focusing all of my first moves on Quality, pushing as far as I can, and then going for Progress. And that's often why I would need Rumination and/or Waste Not, just for the times that I waited too long for synthesis and need an extra step or two.
But maybe it's time to swap to the "one synthesis away from finishing" method so I can blow everything on Quality without worrying. Think it might still take some time to get a good feel for how far I need to get before I'm confident Byregot's will get me to 100%. Seems like something best learned from time and experience. -
05-02-2017, 10:54 AMGemina
Just going to answer your questions. Sorry if already mentioned by others. :)
Leave those skills off of your bars until you get a recipe that actually requires it. Until then, don't waste your cross skill slots on them, and when a recipe that requires it comes around, swap it with your least useful cross class skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
You definitely only want to use it when you can utilize all of its stacks. Basically look at comfort zone as +14CP as that is what's returned to you after absorbing the initial CP cost. This means you should basically start your rotation with it always when performing difficult crafts, or at the very least, before you start using CP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
Two non-specialist abilities increase progress by 33%: PbP and Muscle Memory. The thing about MM is you can only use it at step 1 of a synthesis, but is 100% success rate, while PbP can be used at any point with a reduced success rate. Remember to read the tool tips. It increases remaining progress by 33%. So it is the most useful at your initial progress increase. If you use it after, there is a high chance the progress will be even less than a careful synthesis 1. I cannot tell you if it ignores elemental affinity as I've never tried. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
For this, I am going to task you with something. Actually three. Pick something to craft that is currently one level above yours and right down the progress from Careful Synthesis II. Then I would like for you to do it again with the same item when you are the same level as the recipe. Then one more time when you are one level above it. Make sure you use the same equipment during these crafts. You will notice a SIGNIFICANT increase in progress when you are one level above the recipe, and this is what Ingenuity 1 and 2 are for. Basically ingenuity 1 for same level, and ingenuity 2 for recipes higher than your current level. The less progresses it takes to complete a synthesis, the more durability you can spend towards quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
BB is your ace card. It also stands for bread n' butter. That's exactly what it is. With enough stacks of inner quite, BB can take your quality to 100% from a very low number, and even lower if you get a modifier from 'good' or 'excellent' status. Basically, you need at least steady hand 1 up and 56 CP to use both Great Strides (32CP) and BB (24CP) combo to finish your quality with enough durability to finish the synthesis. This is why it is so important to get inner quit up at the start or near start of your craft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
Sometimes the decision is made to purposely botch a synthesis. Typically this decision is made when you have valuable mats, and nothing short of an HQ craft is acceptable. Anytime you are using expendable mats, you can forego crossing reclaim. However, when the important ones come around, you will be very happy to have this. Cross this skill when that time comes, and use it when you have a streak of failures that make HQ next to impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
Another crafter will have to answer this for you. What I can say is Waste Not and Waste Not 2 are kind of commitment skills. Meaning that when you use them, getting good/excellent condition procs will force you to make a decision to increase quality/progress, or sacrifice it in favor of CP. This can be stressing unless you commit to using all of its stacks towards quality/progress. The reason why I don't use WN2 is because of the longer duration of this stress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
Yup! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
You are correct, it is a little tricky. There are multiple ways this skill can be used, and each of them requires an abundance of CP otherwise that CP is better spent else where. I can tell you that the only time I really use it is in the middle of my GS+BB combo. If I will still have enough CP to use BB, I will use Innovation to 'fish' for a good/excellent proc. If I don't get it, at least it still has a modifier, albeit a weaker one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
It will be important to use these skills in combination when performing difficult crafts, and this is when people start seeking out rotations, but really all one really needs to know is how the skills work (read those tooltips), and using freehand crafting to determine the next best skill to use based on the current situation. This will get you the most success throughout your crafting career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
Hope this helps, and good luck out there! -
05-02-2017, 12:50 PMCaimie_TsukinoDon't limit yourself to just one way. You will find that you will need different strategies for different items.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
For instance, when you were as low as level 8 - level 12, you had barely any skills available to use. The "Good" condition became your only tool. Thus, it's better to keep pushing progress with Basic Syn, until you encounter a "Good", then you go Basic Touch. If you could catch 2 Goods with Basic Touch, it's already equal to having 1 extra touch for free. Similarly, if you have extra CP to spare, but no extra durability or room for progress, then you may also use "Observe" to bait for a Good condition (This is very rare once you past level 20+). Anyway, this is an example which you start off by pushing progress constantly first, while pushing quality occasionally. But of course, when progress is 1-step from completion, you will be pushing quality every step until the end.
For instance, if you're dealing with an item that can be just completed with 4 strokes of Careful Syn II under the effect of Ingen2, you might as well save all the progress until the end. Because you can then activate Ingen2 just before your Byregot's Blessing, and then followed by the 4x CS II. This way, you can maximize all 5 steps of Ingen2 to push quality on the Byregot, and to help complete the item in 4 secure steps. This is an example, which all progress are saved until last.
For instance, if you're depending on very unreliable skills like "Rapid Syn" for progress. Then perhaps you should push progress first, until you have 1 Careful Syn II away from completion. Then you push quality, and finish up with that one CS II. Despite Rapid Syn being so unreliable, this strategy may work out for some difficult items for you (Hell, if you do "SH II, Ingen2, Rapid Syn spam", your progress will fly soooo fast. It is, however, a very heavy CP investment and not very reliable, and should not be utilized unless you don't have Piece by Piece or other similar skills. It is, however, a valid strategy for items like highly difficult elemental aspected items, which your progress is terribly crippled by half.). This is an example of how progress is done first, and then quality after.
For instance, if you're dealing with an item that is soooo difficult to HQ that you need to activate Comfort Zone 3x to gain more CP (+14 x 3 = 42 extra CP), then perhaps you can throw down some CS IIs as "step fillers" to help retrieved the invested CP. This way, you may gain more CP for pushing quality. After quality is done, then you go back and finish the rest of your progress (making sure you have enough durab though). Sometimes, you might arrive at a spot where you have 1 or 2 steps of Comfort Zone left before you activate a cascade of "Steady Hand II + Waste Not + HT spam". Then perhaps you can just throw down some CS IIs as "step fillers" again. This way, you can activate Comfort Zone again before you start your Waste Not phase. This is an example which you focus on quality first, but pushing progress occasionally for the sake of lengthening the total number of steps.
Please use Manipulation (at least once) whenever you try to take on a difficult 40 or 35 durability item. And do your best to activate it when durability is not at max or at min.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
-
05-02-2017, 01:12 PMCaimie_TsukinoI can confirm this for you. PBP and MuMe both ignores elemental aspects. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
Back then when lvl 50 was max, PBP used to be the skill of choice for making the Leviathan Fountain (I forgot the real name... and there were two versions of this fountain. I am talking about the more difficult one). I remember nearly botching it one time when I forgot to equip PBP. I barely struggled through with Ingen2+Rapid Syn. :eek: After that scary moment, I always just spam PBP on all the furniture of the highest difficulty, and then finish with Ingen2+CS IIs.
That's a very good suggested experiment for Hasrat!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
-
05-02-2017, 03:58 PMHasratNow that's probably one of the earliest tricks I learned. And further refined to mostly using it at 20 durability, to both reduce the likelihood of wasting stacks (if used at 30 and need to use other skills, wasting Manip after recovering to 40) and to have a little wiggle should an Excellent pop (still able to take advantage of at 20 and just use Master's Mend instead).Quote:
Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino
I think for now I've got a pretty good grasp on how to handle most of the crafts I have coming up. I haven't bought HW yet, so having a little pause at 50 for now, and seems like most of the harder complexity will come once I transition that way. Have heard plenty about how the difficulty starts to spike at that point, so probably better that I get a good grasp on how to utilize all my skills now before jumping into the deep end. -
05-02-2017, 07:18 PMRoth_Trailfinder
A note about Innovation : if you are going to use 100% Touches for the three moves after it (Basic/Precise Touch covered by SH2) it can provide more Quality than using those 18 CP on a fourth Touch. That said, it does NOT bump your IQ level, leading to less overall Quality of the entire rotation if used earlier and not as a BB booster.
There's a reason Innovative Touch (specialist action) is so low chance of success. Innovation is actually fairly powerful. -
05-06-2017, 03:30 AMLineageRazor
One thing to keep in mind is that certain skills get more or less powerful depending on how advanced the recipe is. For example, Ingenuity and Ingenuity II are very powerful for 1* and 2* recipes (starred recipes are the "advanced" recipes for a class; they are listed as level 50 or 60, but are actually much more difficult than level 50 or 60 recipes are, and get more and more difficult with each star), but their benefits drop off sharply when used for 3* and 4* recipes. Piece-by-Piece, on the other hand, becomes MORE powerful for higher star recipes, as they continue to complete 1/3 of the progress even though the progress bar is much longer, and the potency of Synthesis steps is lower.
I'd hazard to say that EVERY level 50 cross-class skill has a use at some point, a moment where it shines. Part of the fun of solving the great crafting puzzle is figuring out when those moments are! -
05-06-2017, 10:37 AMCaimie_TsukinoTriple LIKE!Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
-
05-13-2017, 09:34 AMShadygrove
You have gotten some of the BEST crafters and theorists advising you here. Congrats!
To illustrate the synergy in our abilities:
If you have good stats, and this will require overmelds at 50 (or 60 when you get there). This closer will get you from 17% and 7 IQ stacks too 100% on one star stuff.
/ac "Steady Hand" <me> <wait.2>
/ac "Ingenuity II" <me> <wait.3>
/ac Innovation <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Great Strides" <me> <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <me> <wait.3>
... whatever
Note that the CS II is still under Ingenuity II
Its total overkill on L50 or 60 no star stuff with only decent gear for the level. -
05-13-2017, 10:26 AMHasrat
I'm still debating on the melding bit, tbh. Starting out working on the class-specific gear sets, and then I'm not sure how much trouble it will be to get the artisan gear (plus all the Master books). And still need to work on some sort of desynth to build up some demimateria for more upgrades. Melding will probably wait until I start feeling particularly inadequate.
-
05-13-2017, 12:12 PMCaimie_TsukinoI do not recommend melding anything until you reach level 60, and have already acquired the i190/i195 gear/tools. If you do want to meld something, do it on a shared gear at least... not on class-specific gear sets... and don't go overboard with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
The i70 artisan gear is fine, but another option is just reach lvl 51 and craft out the i65 archeoskin gear set instead. You may also start acquiring the Holy Cedar accessories. Please see Chapter 33 of my HW Crafting Guide. In fact, nowadays I do not recommend obtaining the master books when you're only level 50 (Back then, it was a lot of fun doing these at level 50 as a challenge though, and I truly enjoyed the difficulty!). When you reach level 52 or 53, the task of obtaining those books would be cake for you, especially when you acquired new mainhand/offhand tools from Heavensward recipes.
Not sure if it's worthy to work on desynthesis anymore. It's a giant gil investment, but the return lately hasn't been that great. I do not know if desyn would be useful in Stormblood though. -
05-13-2017, 03:22 PMHasrat
Ehh, but I'm playing a bit differently than most would. I haven't even bought HW yet, so I'm having a bit of a pause at 50 to appreciate all this content I have available. Sure, I could've bought to keep leveling and make life easier probably. But I think it's kinda nice not skipping through so much so quickly.
Definitely didn't plan to go too overboard with melding, though. But, with what the Ixali can sell me, it sounded like a simple enough proposition to get a few nice stat boosts if I need. -
05-13-2017, 05:07 PMCaimie_TsukinoIf you wanna slowly chew on the old ARR content and experience the challenge that veteran crafters once had... sure! Why not? I have to admit I had such great fun with them back then! You can even check my outdated crafting guide part 2, which was written for ARR endgame. I remember I tried very hard not to simply lay out rotations there in the guide, but to just lead people to form their own rotations, so it feels more like a puzzle-solving game. You will also learn a great deal about crafting difficult items too by going through this process. It will, however, slow you down a lot from entering HW content. But if you're not in a rush for it, then why not? :) After all, we craft because we like it, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
P.S. I will, however, recommend using Heavensward item "Baked Onion Soup HQ" as the food of choice when you try to acquire the old ARR master books. -
05-13-2017, 06:05 PMDriavna
ARR was nerfed so It won't be that much of a challenge anymore, compared to the jump to HW, but unlocking all master recipes is a good idea and you can make tons of gil with Z weapons items related, augmentations for ARR relics, certain furniture and Orchestrion's Rolls.
Also the better your gear, in general, the fewer indignities you will suffer while arriving at HW. -
05-14-2017, 01:02 AMMN_14
The turn in requirements have been majorly nerfed but the crafts themselves should still be harder than anything released in HW. AFAIK, the only major change has been the ability to use tricks of the trade on excellent procs. I've played around with an old level 50 alt recently and crafting level 50 2* artisan's tokens reliably from all NQ while overgeared with level 50 4* stats and max cp is still harder than current level 60 4* crafts, nevermind the ARR 3* and 4* crafts/tokens. All HW recipes have been like lite versions of ARR master crafts including the latest ones.
I've never really understood feedback on the difficulty of the 51-50 leveling crafts. They're harder than ARR 1-50 non-star recipes for sure, but they aren't much different from crafting the lower tier ARR master crafts, especially if you have multiple level 50 abilities. Even without them, the process of crafting a level 51 or 52 craft using AF gear at level 50 isn't much different from crafting ARR 1* and 2* using a single class at 50 (at min requirements without byregots). These are things that we all had to go through even in ARR (unless a crafter went through the 1* and 2* rng free route, skipping the learning process). -
05-14-2017, 02:01 AMDriavnaDunno, I did craft myself all Z weapons recipes at 50 with the minimum stats required and was extremely easy compared to the jump to HW so I always assumed was nerfed to the ground and beyond. Was the same with DoL, can't even gather HQ materials for the first quest.Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_14
-
05-14-2017, 03:57 AMMN_14
Well, most of the ARR crafts weren’t particularly hard either. It’s just that HW crafts are that much easier.
3* in ARR is similar to the more difficult level 51 recipes (I can’t really recall but the lodestone seems to show recipes with different progress/quality requirements even at 80 DUR), and 4* is similar to level 53. If you were geared with 4* stats, you could already breeze through level 51-53 crafts right from the start at 50. Once you hit level 51, however, the major level penalty is gone so everything becomes a cakewalk.
If your stats weren’t as good, level 51 crafts at 50 would be a bit harder and could require some HQ materials, but once you hit level 51, you were fine. Skills like RS cleave through progress when the penalty is gone. This is a key point because a common error is that most crafters would prefer to use cs2 even if it meant using it 4-5 times.
The hardest crafts in ARR were the master 2 tokens but even they weren't actually that bad. Once you figured out a reliable strategy, you could build 10-11 stacks of IQ almost every other synth. If you used what you learned from ARR on HW crafts, you’d steam roll through every last craft. -
07-09-2017, 12:44 PMHasrat
Big bump, bit of a continuation of that topic actually, as I've made a bit of progress and am now staring at a bit of a wall. I crafted up to the first Master books (and blew some money on demimaterias for the demi books). Short of melding loads of materia (still in that class gear set, nothing shared =/ ), I'm not entirely sure how I'm meant to hit the stat requirements for anything now. Short on both Craftsmanship and Control, and I don't think there's any food to boost both. Am I stuck with melding (until/unless I decide to jump to HW)? If so, am I probably best served just doing one class, and working on that for the Artisan gear to bring everyone back on balance?
-
07-09-2017, 02:27 PMCaimie_TsukinoCongrats on All-50 and Builder of the Realm title! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
And trust me, you won't regret about all those level 50 cross class skills. They're extremely fun and powerful to play with.
Personally, I do not recommend getting spending too much money and effort on Artisan stuff anymore. I do not recommend melding anything either (except some cheap CP materia). What you need now, is to somehow push all your classes to level 51. Because once you reach 51, all your classes can share the Archeoskin crafting set. Yes, this is post-50, and it's HW stuff. But you don't need to buy HW to access them. I am not sure if you have level 51 to level 60 recipes without buying HW though. It would be nice if you can tell me about that. If you have the class gear set, you should have enough powers to do quite a lot of things. Please visit my Heavensward crafting guide Ch 32E and Ch33. Ch 32E has some info about rotations. Please compare your rotations with them to see if you can further strengthen your rotations. Ch 33 has info about the Archeoskin gear set.
If you intend to finish up the ARR end-game stuff, like Master Book II, Supra Tools, Lucis Tools etc., you may. But it's better to acquire stronger shared gear first at level 51 (and accessories too, if you would like to use the Heavensward accessories, then go up to level 53/54. But at that point, you probably should just buy HW). -
07-09-2017, 03:00 PMHasrat
But, to use the Archaeoskin stuff, I do have to buy HW and level to use them, and if I'm buying/starting up HW stuff, progression is pretty natural at that point, anyway. Level cap without expansions is still 50. I mean, I had intended to at least try for the Artisan's set, possibly Master Book II, etc, before grabbing HW and starting on that whole process. But, if it's all a bit too excessive to try at 50 anymore, might just skip all that after all. Looking at the first chart in your guide, seems it's about as I thought. Overmeld one class to get over that hump. Although it did remind me about those Ixali gloves I haven't gotten yet. So I've still got that to work towards at least. And I can feel a little accomplished for getting the first Master Books without overleveling/gearing.
As for your curiosity, yes, at 50 without HW, I do have access to the 51-55 recipes, although obviously I have no way to collect the mats myself (and can't actually wear any of it anyway). -
07-09-2017, 04:12 PMElamys
If you don't plan on getting Heavensward soon, then by all means, work on getting your Artisan's set, if you still want to progress. If you want to spend less gil, but you do have Ixal up to get Oaknots, you can try making it yourself.
-
07-09-2017, 07:59 PMHasrat
Had completely forgotten, until the guide also pointed out, that I do have FC actions available. If I boost Control by 10, and eat my HQ Cheesecake, I should have just enough stats to meet the requirements to get the Artisan's gear items. Remains to be seen if I have the skills, might still be difficult, but maybe I'm not quite as stalled out as I thought.
-
07-10-2017, 06:29 PMRNageo
Have you checked the crafting station furnishings for homes and appartments? I think they were buffed recently to work beyond level 50, and might help you get over to the Artisan gear.
-
07-10-2017, 06:49 PMHasrat
I had not known about or considered those. But crafting them looks out of range pre-Artisan gear. Might at least look at prices on the market, cuz they sound pretty neat. Any boost is a good boost.
-
07-10-2017, 11:10 PMCaimie_Tsukino
Hasrat, since Storm Blood, there's a new kind of medicine that can be used in conjunction with food.
http://oi68.tinypic.com/2yosgna.jpg
There are 3 kinds of these medicines, which can add a bit of stats to Craft/Control/CP respectively. You can probably get the NQ kinds from the marketboard for a very cheap price.
Keep in mind that the control stats is sometimes a bit overrated. CP and craftsmanship are usually more critical. CP allows flexibility to use different skill combos or stronger touches (which is much more significant than a few points of control boost). As for more craftsmanship, sometimes, together with the use of Ingen2, it can allow you to shorten the steps of progress completion, which in turn buys you an extra touch, further boosting your Byregot's Blessing. -
08-15-2017, 08:43 PMHasrat
Hm. Mildly disappointed. A bit of melding on my accessories got me the stats I needed. Didn't seem like a bad idea, accessories shared, plenty of materia lying around. Got me my set of Artisan gear, that felt pretty nice. But then I realized how many Fieldcraft Demimateria III I'll need for the second set of Master books, as well as Supra tools (plus their Mastercraft Demis), aaand, that's a bit much for me. Too pricy, and leveling desynth is a bit more work than I think I want to put in just for this.
Still, didn't have much trouble with the Artisan crafting, and i61 feels pretty good going into HW. Time to learn what all the expansion has in store.