FF14 HW Excitement/Patch 2.5X VS SB Excitement/Patch 3.5X!

Before I start....this threads only purpose is to voice a opinion. White Knights, Fanboys and Girls.....please do not waste you time here with you anecdotes of how FF14 may not be the game for me or with insults, please go be a troll and waste your breath and life somewhere else!

For over the past 4 years, I have been a off again on again player in which I have experienced the period before the storm(no pun intended) in regards to both HW and now SB pre-patches. Over the past 3 months, beside the revelations that were revealed to the story....I find patch 2.5/HW to still be the better patch/expansion than this one for 3 major reasons that I will list and discuss below.

1. Excitement for New Classes: With HW, when we finally got details that we would have 3 new jobs in regards to Drk, AST, and MCH......I was quite excited that there was new ways of challenging content while SE still maintaining the ever important concept of game balance. But with SB, we finally got revealed that the only classes to expect are RDM and SAM......both great additions from my own FF11 memories of those jobs but they both being DPS! Now, I already know what critics will already say...o...your beating a dead horse, or players that already play tanks, dps or heals will more than likely not change roles(I find this excuse really untrue and factual wrong). In FF11, I played Drk as my main class as I still do today. But when I discovered Drk in patch 2.4(my main at the time was MNK, which is a DPS class) was going to be a tank job that was always needed.....it was a double whammy for me to try a new role. But do not get me wrong, in FF11 for example I played SAM, BST, MNK, DNC, and DRK as my main with trying a little of everything. Which brings me back to patch 2.5, during that time....we knew of 2 key facts, Class balance would be maintained...not hindered and that those that love one specific role had a additional option in the same role to try something new within it. But with SB, those feelings and options are not there this time around. Now we are faced with a possibility(notate the part I say possibility, not guarantee) that que times may become even more longer for those that love the DPS roles and that those like myself that enjoy doing one of each role(realistically you can't since the weekly cap on loot you can attain and the # of tomestones you can acquire per week force you to only do one job on one toon in regards to gearing) are now stuck with no new potential play style changes based solely of being with the same jobs for healing and tank roles for at least 2 more years that we already have!

2. Rinse and Repeats is SE's new content mantra: This comment will find in my opinion the most trolls and insulters coming unto this thread to do such acts. According to several interviews by Yoshi P, the development cycle for SB is going to be the exact same as it was in both ARR and HW with no new concepts on expanding the way FF14 is played beside a few tweaks i.e. swimming. As soon as I mention this point, this is the part the White Knights and Fanboys or girls lunge to insult...just because a actual player of 4 years voices a opinion of considering SE's performance to be poor for not trying anything dramatically new does not mean I do not enjoy the game. WoW, ESO, GW2 and many others try to implement new content beyond what was done before(please do not waste your breath stating that this game may not be for me or go play those games....I as you do have a right to voice opinions as I assure you will about this post!)with failures occurring at times but respected for breaking what people call breaking the mold! In HW, we got flying(this one prospect was a huge part of HW's appeal)....we got larger zones...we got several new concepts of design(including 3 new jobs for each role not 2 for only DPS).....but with SB, we got maybe a 1/4th of the same in comparison.

3. Class Diversity: Lastly, I want to say this...for those that are offended by players like myself that compare FF14 to other MMOs we have played, there is a reason why we play FF14 and not those games. I also hear all the time players on the defensive say with WoW as a example....O but WoW only comes out with 1 new class every expansion if they do introduce a new class/job or they do not at all. Let me explain a fact for you, WoW's classes have 3 specs/roles built into each class alot of the times. For example, the recent Demon Hunter in Legion has 2 specs.....lets say that class/spec in FF14 standards is DRK from HW is a Tank spec, with the latter one being a dps spec similar to a melee class in FF14. For the most part, WoW's classes have 3 specs within each class with some being utterly different from one another. Shaman's for example have a healing spec which you can consider a healing class/role on FF14 standards, and 2 other DPS specs...one ranged and one melee. So if you actual considered each spec as it own class/role since they are most of the time being utterly different from one another...it has 24 DPS specs/classes/roles alone! That is not even including healing roles or tanks!

So, in closing....I am excited for SB for only one reason....the storyline. But mark my words....I and numerous others will soon unsub a few months after the initial release for 2 major reasons....lack of diversity of content once we have completed the story until the new patch comes out and/or horrible que times for DPS roled players for lack of tanks/healers(this one is a huge maybe but I feel will happen based on past MMO experiences). I hope I am wrong....but I know I am right about one thing, SB will be a success or failure based upon SE's willingness to push into new boundaries and not always playing it safe!

While I agree they should try and do new things to the game since what has worked for 2.0 and 3.0 is getting stale, I can also see why they won't. Yoshi seems to mention more and more that he doesn't want to try new things (like Ozma EX, for example) because the fanbase complains no matter what. It's too hard or it's too easy.

With the new jobs, it doesn't really matter to me. I really wanted DNC but I figure it's probably going to come in for a later expansion, or they may surprise us all and just stick it in mid-Stormblood. I played FFXI when it first came out; RDM and SAM weren't that appealing to me, so for that reason I don't care much about them. I liked how they added something new in 3.0 (AST) and it would be cool to see if they could do something like that again in the future. There's not really a way to fix the queues that I can think of other than just having more tanks and healers, but those jobs are hard to a lot of people. I don't tank because I don't like letting people down and people seem to blame the tank most for it. When you mess up as a tank, it shows and is easier to pinpoint.

I didn't play WoW and I don't even have that much experience from FFXI. I played 1.0 and the alpha and beta for 2.0. I think the story is what's keeping me around. I can't see myself playing any other game regardless of whether or not things will change like you and everyone else wants. My husband said it better than me: "I'm playing Stormblood for the story and that's all they really need to make it an expansion; the new jobs, swimming, etc. are just extras."

People seem to complain a lot and not give that many solutions. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places.

@OP

At this point the storyline/MSQ isn't enough to draw me in anymore. I hope they plan to blow us away with their live letter or some PR plan before June. I've been with this game since 1.0, purchased nearly everything I needed to get every in-game item and even stay subbed when not an active player. I will miss raiding and the people I play with but this business model and their development cycle is not enough anymore. Currently sub and retainers are cancelled but GG they have 6 months prepaid, physical CE preorder cancelled.

To address your points:

1) Won't argue that Stormblood will not be very fufilling for players of Tanks and Healers. That said, on the reverse side of the coin, those of us who play Spellcaster DPS and Melee DPS actually get a new class, which is awesome, since we haven't had any since 2.0 launched.

2) They'll add new content, they always do, its just not always a success. The Forbidden Land of Eureka comes to mind as something new.

3) Maybe SE doesn't release classes as often as Blizzard, but they are far better balanced and bug free due to thorough testing. I know not everyone will agree, but in my opinion at least, Quality > Quantity.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

3) Maybe SE doesn't release classes as often as Blizzard, but they are far better balanced and bug free due to thorough testing. I know not everyone will agree, but in my opinion at least, Quality > Quantity.

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amen to that, at this point I genuinely believe blizzard devs to be completely inept at any kind of balance testing

Something else I feel needs to be pointed out about the second point...

New is not always Better. Look at World of Warcraft. Its had so much, 'New,' content added to it that the game no longer remotely resembles anything of the Intellectual Property it was based off of. 'New,' brings about homogenization, or radical ideas that don't quite fit a setting. Look at all the, 'New,' stuff in WoW. Time Gates, AP Grinds, 'Illidan the Child of Light and Shadow' who can do no wrong, Holy Wind Chimes, etc... New can ruin a game. Square Enix puts a lot of careful thought into how it's developing content for FFXIV, and I appreciate that. We get new content, but its not bad content either. Its stable.

Fundamentally we have so little info on things regarding class changes and such since they don't seem to be telling us about the changes till probably late May. There is a good reason for that. They would want to give themselves all the time available to refine the class changes and the moment they talk about details people will take that as set in stone. Neither of the new Jobs particularly interest me but there was never a guarantee that they would. The team has a limit to how many changes they can do at once. Maybe if they weren't doing an overhaul to the combat system they could have squeezed in three but even then there is no certainty the third job would have interested me either.

They also do attempt new content. It just doesn't always work out. Diadem for example was originally supposed to be something different and honestly didn't pan out. Deep Dungeons were too. One problem about attempting new content is it takes resources away from older styles of content development and a lot of people don't like that. When they went from releasing 3 dungeons per patch to releasing 2 a lot of people complained. However to have the resources available to try building things like Deep Dungeon and Diadem (new stuff) they had to take resources from somewhere else. I am pretty sure they will try new things. However I think they are right in not scraping what they have provided in the past to just focus on new things.

WoW doesn't always come out with a new class every expansion. They didn't bring out a race or class in Warlords of Dreanor. More over WoW has a substantially larger development team and takes year long breaks without any content releases prior to expansion releases. Comparing the two isn't exactly fair. WoW does have a lot more 'jobs' due to specs but it is also a lot older than FF14. Assuming FF14 releases 2 Jobs a expansion cycle it will be pretty close to being on par with WoW when it has been out as long. I would love more but there is a point of being realistic about the resources that Yoshi P's team has available. Its not like they don't release more because they don't want to. It is because they don't have the time, staff or finances to do everything they want to do so they have to compromise. Hence the thing with the third dungeon per patch.

Also please don't throw around words like White Knight and Fanboy/girl. People are entitled to different opinions to you and if you want people to respect yours you should at least attempt to respect other people's without resorting to what is basically name calling.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

3) Maybe SE doesn't release classes as often as Blizzard, but they are far better balanced and bug free due to thorough testing. I know not everyone will agree, but in my opinion at least, Quality > Quantity.

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About your last point: AST, PAL, WHM and MNK. SE use a more simple approch about classes and we have similar problems to WoW. (Mandatory and "no no" classes).

Anyway, IMO, here a list of problem that the game is facing:

- Boring itemization

- Classes only had one way to be played during a whole expansion (I know some player like this)

- 4 man dungeons are in a very bad place at this moment

- Weekly Tomestones/Red Scrip cap

I think the biggest takeaway is that hype is lower this time around compared to pre-Heavensward because we know nowhere near as much as we do about Stormblood now compared to how much we knew about Heavensward two months before it launched (a.k.a. about two years ago from today). This leads to one of two things:

1) There will be a bigger reveal soon(tm), like next live letter or (most likely) the next public event....

2) They might be behind schedule. Yoshi had mentioned cutting it close to the deadline for Red Mage prior to its announcement, so it is possible that they might be under similar circumstances now with other features.

Either way, we have two months. Also....

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Originally Posted by Vexander

That said, on the reverse side of the coin, those of us who play Spellcaster DPS and Melee DPS actually get a new class, which is awesome, since we haven't had any since 2.0 launched.

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ARC/SMN came out a bit after 2.0, and ROG/NIN came out in 2.2 or 2.3 (I think....).

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

ARC/SMN came out a bit after 2.0, and ROG/NIN came out in 2.2 or 2.3 (I think....).

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Won't argue on Ninja, but either way, its still a pretty long time without a new class for those specific play styles.

I don't understand why people feel the need to tell others that they're gonna unsub like its a threat or something.

If you were really gonna unsub, you would just unsub.

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

I don't understand why people feel the need to tell others that they're gonna unsub like its a threat or something.

If you were really gonna unsub, you would just unsub.

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That's like telling people 'I'm gonna quit social media!' but still stay around.

Otherwise, looking forward to all the DPS making my queue times to level my tanks/healers first a piece of cake~

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

ARC/SMN came out a bit after 2.0, and ROG/NIN came out in 2.2 or 2.3 (I think....).

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Actually none of this is true lol.

ACN/SMN/SCH came out with the official release of 2.0 ARR. They just were not in any of the Beta phases until open beta phase 4.

NIN came out in patch 2.4

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

ARC/SMN came out a bit after 2.0, and ROG/NIN came out in 2.2 or 2.3 (I think....).

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The ARC/SMN/ScH was in at launch for 2.0. Been playing SMN as my main since the relaunch. As far as the complaining about the two classes I don't get it. Ranged magic and melee dps players did not get a class in HW. So for those that prefer those play styles now they got a new classes with stormblood.

I think the formula needs to change is all...FFXIV patches are just different skins, same stuff. When they announced HW and all the interviews, it seemed like it was going to really change up the formula finally...then when it launched it just felt like a big patch, no new systems and no open world content. That being said..I have 0 hype for Stormblood. I'll still play it, just not hyped or expecting anything incredible.

They killed off the most interesting characters and brought back the boring Scions. Van Hydrus, Ilberd, the Warrior of Darkness, gone... meanwhile boring characters like Lyse and Yugiri will get focused on.
Not only that, but we stop Shinryu for no good reason. It would send Garlemald to shit, and instead of laughing while watching imperial suffering, we save Garlemald and give them Omega... ???

And then there's that part where we kill the Griffin's Loyalists... and ten minutes later we're yelling at the Griffin to stop being insensitive to his people's suffering. Some times I wonder if they even put 5 minutes of thinking into this.

So yeah, to me the story has been a disappointment.

BUT... the Ala Mhigo story line will finally be concluded so I want to be playing when that happens, been waiting for that since 2.0. After, I don't know what I'll do. Maybe it'll be the clue to stop forever, beg Square Enix for Dragon Quest X, or just stop playing MMORPGs. It's weird how it works. FFXIV was such an amazing experience when it launched, but now I see it as a broken game and I keep looking for that part of ARR that I loved but it's simply gone - often due to player requests.

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Originally Posted by Ririta

Not only that, but we stop Shinryu for no good reason. It would send Garlemald to shit, and instead of laughing while watching imperial suffering, we save Garlemald and give them Omega... ???

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Short term military victory over long term "We're letting Shinryu drain the life out of Hydaelyn and get even stronger over time making him an even bigger threat when he's done with Garlemald and turns his eye back on Eorzea" also discounting the idea he very easily could have just flown back over to Eorzea and annihilated us first.

The latter I see as more likely since Eorzea has way more aether and any primal worth their salt wants aether above all else.

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And then there's that part where we kill the Griffin's Loyalists... and ten minutes later we're yelling at the Griffin to stop being insensitive to his people's suffering. Some times I wonder if they even put 5 minutes of thinking into this.

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Loyalists who only died because they opposed us (and Garlemald) at Griffin's behest. Are we supposed to just let them whack away at the tank while we try and talk Griffin down? That's some...sloppy thinking.

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So yeah, to me the story has been a disappointment.

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From the lens of everything after the Dragonsong War ended being a buildup to 4.0 as opposed to an ending to 3.0 (like the 2.5x series was to 2) then the story is pretty good in my book. I share your disappointment in characters like WoD being thrown away, but Hydrus was fine bowing out as he did IMO. This post was mostly just me pointing some flaws I saw in your criticisms of the major plotpoints of 3.5x.

Even as a player of one years time i will say i am growing tired of the same dungeons over and over again. When i leveled, each dungeon introduced a gimmick be it remembering the scales in qarn or collecting keys in haukke (or aurum vales "gold" vapors. All hate aside id love the dungeon was it not for the colourscheme)
In all HW dungeons it has been pretty straightforward. 3 bosses in a corridor with trashmobs in between. Its so damn mechanical that when youve done one you might as well have done them all. Only the bosses were better, the overall dungeon design suffered. Now i did not play before HW launched but it is clear that this trend started in the 2.x patches and i will be sad to see it in SB

HW had many flaws, biggest of which is the 2 big failed contents. LoV and Diadem.

LoV is... interesting. It is to my knowledge (feel free to correct me) an aprils first joke brought to life. Clearly large efforts were made to create an intricate system with an entire arena and gold saucer section. This might have been its downfall though. It was a completely different gamestyle that could not be done on the fly. You could not do it while in a queue nor do a quick match on the spot unlike Triple Triad, the arguably most popular GS introduction. No you have to travel to a dark empty area and queue up and hope others had done the same- with the leaderboards and such i could expect SE to have prepared LoV to be a success.

Diadem was just a mobgrind. Diadem 2 is a timed mobgrind. Both of these has been discussed in great detail by people with more experience (ill admit to not having done a whole lot of either version)

With half of the "side content" failing in HW i fear SE will take the lesson that only the core patches work, you cant keep releasing the same thing over and over again reskinning it each time. People will grow tired and leave which is bad for the mmo subscription model. I want SE to keep trying to push new ways to play the game. PotD and Aquapolis was such things. The random reward is something SE seems to have taken to heart introducing it in the new diadem perhaps thinking that was the key to success.

As for SB, my hype is lukewarm at best. I will buy the expansion. Play the MSQ. Then see from there whether it can capture my attention for a few months until 4.1

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Originally Posted by Enur

As for SB, my hype is lukewarm at best. I will buy the expansion. Play the MSQ. Then see from there whether it can capture my attention for a few months until 4.1

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Yeah speaking of HW, 3.1 took how long to come out after initial release? Ive gotten used to seeing more of the same which I think has my hype train bummed out for SB, but it wasnt that delay per se that did me in, I think a lot of it just burned out in decisions made throughout HW, wasnt a fan of the tank changes, wasnt really impressed how they "fixed" Astro, I worry even more about these new classes, and very little to no information on the system changes, reminds me JUST like what happened with the tank changes in 3.2 which means, i guess we'll see what they did in the 4.0 patch notes at this rate...

Of course the hype would be low for this expansion. Everything they have said so far has been part of HW so nothing to get excited about. The only new thing they have mentioned is Eureka and they haven't even shown it really yet.

Now that the first expansion has went by some people are not going to just buy stormblood straight away. They will wait and see how it ends up because people thought HW will change up a bit (Yoshi-p even said this himself) but it didn't. So if they see nothing changes wouldn't surprise me you will see less players than during HW.

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

Class balance would be maintained...not hindered

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From one point of view - if you consider giving each role a new job as balanced.

But it also caused an imbalance. Before HW we had 2 jobs per intended main stat - Vit, Str, Dex, Int, and Mind.

HW added 1 to 3 of the 5.

There's also the issue that introducing 1 each every expansion would mean creating another type of imbalance, where 1 of the 3 playstyles of dps - ranged physical, melee, and magic - would go something like 4-6 years (assuming they continue at current pace) between getting a new job while tanks and healers each got something new every 2 years.

Really, it was going to be imbalanced regardless.

I also believe that keeping themselves beholden to 1 of each role every expansion is stifling for creativity. They should be able to do 2 dps then a tank+healer another time then 2 tanks if they want and it's an option that will work well for the game at that time.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

To address your points:

1) Won't argue that Stormblood will not be very fufilling for players of Tanks and Healers. That said, on the reverse side of the coin, those of us who play Spellcaster DPS and Melee DPS actually get a new class, which is awesome, since we haven't had any since 2.0 launched.

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I agree with the rest but HW they added Ninja for melee .....

I will most likely like Red since it is a caster but going forward for new jobs, no dps please. We have more then enough atm

I don't remember them saying anything about increasing the player in need bonus. IMO there needs to be a bonus for queues as a healer and tank and then on top. I am excited for the MSQ, I am also excited for the new dps jobs even though my main is a tank.

I don't think queue times will change that drastically. But we shall see. I know some people who main tank and are going to SAM, but I highly doubt that small percentage of people is going to cause a problem for dps queue times

I can't say I'm that excited for Stormblood honestly. I'll probably just get the cheapest copy, enjoy the story then pretty much stop playing until the new deep dungeon comes out.
Same content plan from SE will probably lead to the same boredom as last time affecting me.

Wonder whatever happened to the grand airship plans for HW?

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Originally Posted by Vexander

1) Won't argue that Stormblood will not be very fufilling for players of Tanks and Healers.

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I'm happy they didn't add more tank/healing jobs. Consider healing for a moment: We can shield and prevent damage taken or restore health after the hit. Beyond that how much can really be done? You can add support features to buff the raid or better dps options resulting in the current meta of WHM not having a place in high end raiding because SCH brings better mitigation along with more dps and AST brings party wide buffs in albeit rng cards. You can't design content that requires the WHM BIG heals or the other 2 jobs get benched. It seems similar issues exist among the 3 tank jobs.

DPS jobs however allow more options for differing play styles. In my experience a player is not going to switch from their preferred job of healing or tanking simply because a new DPS option is released. That player heals/tanks because that's what they enjoy to play.

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Originally Posted by Seredeelfer

I'm happy they didn't add more tank/healing jobs. Consider healing for a moment: We can shield and prevent damage taken or restore health after the hit. Beyond that how much can really be done?

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"Consider damage dealing for a moment: We can move the enemy HP bar right to left slowly but steadily, or we can move in bursty chunks. Beyond that how much can really be done?"

It's not about what you do, it's about how it's done. All DPS do essentially exactly the same thing, but they come at the end result from different angles. Likewise there are more ways to arrive at shielding and healing than just 3.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

"Consider damage dealing for a moment: We can move the enemy HP bar right to left slowly but steadily, or we can move in bursty chunks. Beyond that how much can really be done?"

It's not about what you do, it's about how it's done. All DPS do essentially exactly the same thing, but they come at the end result from different angles. Likewise there are more ways to arrive at shielding and healing than just 3.

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I wholeheartedly agree. Speaking more from a tanking perspective, there is plenty of room for expansion. In the end, Tanks need to keep aggro, position enemies properly, and take big hits. There are still a ton of new and exciting ways for them to achieve those goals. For example, a tank could be focused on debilitating the enemy, replacing massive defensive cooldowns with damage reducing debuffs. A tank with a pet can lead to some fun gameplay, while a reactive or proc-based tank could be fun as well. Plenty of DPS mechanics, aside from positional based damage, can be retooled into Tanking mechanics without immense difficulty. For example, the Dark Knight in many ways plays like a DPS class, aside from Defensive Cooldowns replacing its offensive ones. Similarly, there is plenty of room to expand healer jobs. A healer with a Combo mechanic like melees, or one focused on switching stances can achieve the same goals as our current healers while feeling different. While the above are only simple (and not necessarily well thought out) examples, the important take away is that we can have significant gameplay differences within the Tanking and Healing roles, just like DPS roles. In fact, even similar end results (big heals versus shields) can feel unique through fun gameplay and visual themes.

I'll admit the lack of a new Tanking Job (and for my healer buddy, a new healing job) did hurt my hype for the expansion, though I'll be playing regardless. I do think that in future expansions they should add some more Tanks/Healers to add more variety to the role. While sure, many Tanks/Healers aren't going to switch roles just because they didn't get a new job, there's also very little to entice players into trying out the Tank/Healer roles. As much as people complained about Dark Knight as a tank, it brought a large amount of players who previously never considered tanking into the role. Some of those players disliked the role and quit, while others found they really enjoyed it. This is also true for Astrologian. While we might not see an enormous dip in Tank/Healer players, we also won't see many people entering those roles. For every Tank player switching over to Samurai, we won't be getting much in the way of replacements. Personally, I'm guessing queues are going to be horrid at launch, but even out a bit once the fervor over Samurai and Red Mage has died down. That said, I think we'll end with a net loss of healers/tanks, though I can't guess how much. How negatively that affects queues is still to be seen.

I know I'm far more excited about SAM and RDM than I was about DRK, AST, and MCH. While it's no indication they'll be fun in the long run, that's two classic jobs compared to HW's one (and Dark Knight is less "classic" than the two Stormblood jobs anyway). And I don't tend to play magic melee much, and love the concept and aesthetic of Samurai, so I'll be playing both of them.

Also, as a healer main, I have no desire to see a fourth healer job. I loved what they did with white mage's abilities in Heavensward (even if apparently they're terrible, but I don't do high-end content so I don't care), and if they do that again in Stormblood, I'll be perfectly happy. Astrologian is fine, but I don't see much reason to concentrate on two different healing jobs (except that I guess it's easier to keep them both geared?) so having more of them isn't very appealing to me.

I'm pretty happy with things the way they are. I hear a lot of people calling for changes, but what changes do you want? Like, specifically? A lot of the people complaining seem to be endgame MMO vets calling for things to be the way they used to be. Well, I am also an MMO vet, but one who never got into endgame, and the way things used to be was actively hostile toward my playstyle. FFXIV is not, and I don't want that to change.

As far as classes go, I think we need to accept that not every expansion can include new Jobs for everyone. That'd be 5 new Jobs each expansion. It takes almost a full year to properly develop and balance a single new job to co-exist with the already existing jobs, meaning you couldn't even have 5 groups working on 5 jobs in the span of a single year, because they couldn't properly balance these new jobs amongst each other.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the existing dungeons/raids curtail possible options for innovation in new Job Mechanics. Could you imagine a class that functions primarily on, say, Channeled spells/abilities working in the slightest in the current format, considering how much movement is required in -some- dungeons? Arguably SE could make it so that you can continue channeling while moving, but other classes can't do that, so they lose out on DPS, making these new channeling jobs much more desirable in fights with a lot of movement. SE would need to nerf channeled damage (in which case in non-movement heavy content they'd fall behind drastically).

Or say, they develop a class that uses HP as its resources to heal/damage/tank. How many big AOE's/Tank Busters and the sort would wipe them out due to them just playing the class? Or say SE introduces a healer that can, 'Overheal,' up to 3x the max HP of a target. They'd be on-demand for clearing new content so tanks could survive tank busters with ease, while other healers get left behind. Then once content is under farm status, they become as little used as White Mages.

I do think its possible for SE to innovate new mechanics for jobs, however, I don't think we're quite ready just yet. We need a lot more time to firmly stabilize existing jobs. White Mage in particular needs an identity and some kind of utility to keep up with SCH/AST.



In regards to Story, I'm taking a wait and see approach. I won't lie in saying the end of ARR (2.55) had a VERY good ending with cliffhangers, drama, and tragedy. By comparison, HW's ending (3.55) is pretty meh. There is very little tension. We know we're going to war with the Empire, but then again, we've always known that was inevitable. The death of Papalymo felt like a waste of a character with good potential, and the reveal for Lyse was likewise a bit on the, 'Meh,' side. Personally I've never been able to feel much sympathy for the Ala Mhigans given how much they come off as entitled jerks in the MSQ and Questing. I only felt bad for them near the beginning, but there are just too many bad apples.

I did feel a lot of hype for Red Mage, especially after reading all of the theories suggesting it was a Sharlayan class, but now its from Gyr Abania, and that just feels like SE telling players, 'See? Stormblood won't be only about Doma! We're giving Ala Mhigo a new class too!' It strikes me as pandering rather than good lore, because really, why have Red Mages been a complete non-entity in the story since the Floods, if they've been on Eorzea since then? Why didn't we see any since Bahamut broke free? Why don't we see any regarding the Garlean Occupation of Gyr Abania? If they were from Sharlayan we'd have a satisfactory answer; Sharlayans don't like sharing their magic, so the Red Mages stayed home. Now they're revealed to have always been in Eorzea, flouting the lore about the Witch Hunts after the Flood, and there are just too many questions that I worry won't have satisfying answers, because this lore decision was made for PR.



As far as Doma/Ala Mhigo being in the same expansion goes, I can't say I'm hyped about that either. I wasn't looking forward to Stormblood initially because it seemed like it was going to be the Ala Mhigo expansion, and really, I haven't been able to work up any enthusiasm for Ala Mhigo at all. Adding Doma was something of a mixed response from me. On one hand, yay, I might actually enjoy the expansion for more than Red Mage! But what keeps nagging at the back of my mind is that we're essentially resolving the story of two nations in a single expansion. It feels like too much and I worry that neither Ala Mhigo nor Doma will get the proper justice their respective stories deserve.

Considering current tank and healer balance is a mess, it stands to reason they ought to focus on fixing that before adding a fourth job to either role. That all said, I'll admit, my hype for Stormblood isn't high. While I do fancy many aspects of the game, I feel they have done a decidedly poor job ramping up excitement. We're being drip-fed information and even EU's fanfest took more time recapping what we already knew. Perhaps the coming months will finally start revealing job updates, though revamp talks seem to grow increasingly... lackluster. Much like those "challenging" new dungeons we later find out will more or less be the same faceroll Heaevensward introduced. I really hope to be proven wrong, but the only thing we really have different is Eureka and this supposedly never before seen content coming in 4.2. After LoV and Diadem, I cannot say that fills me with a huge amount of confidence.

At one point, Yoshi frustratingly said "just enjoy content." I hate to say it, because the devs work hard, but player patience won't be high with Stormblood. People accepted the safe approach with ARR and even Heavensward due to the devs essentially blowing up the original game and starting over. It's been four years. People expect the game to hit its stride now. Sorry, Yoshi. Slapping FATEs in an instanced zone isn't going to cut it anymore.

I'm super hyped for RDM and SAM, the chance to go kick Garlemald's face in properly and set the stage for our eventual invasion, swimming (and the chance at BLITZBALL, if Yoshi manages to pull it off), and I'm even excited just to see the zones and the new housing area.

That said... I know what others mean when they say they aren't as hyped as they were for Heavensward. I also have concerns (and hopefully Soken will prove me wrong) that the soundtrack for SB won't be as stellar as HW. Mostly I just don't have that same sense of "I can't wait to march into Ala Mhigo!" that I did with Ishgard. (Truth be told I'm also a little miffed that Ishgard got passed over for a housing district, I'd really rather live there ;-;.)

Just to add, the Doma reveal fell flat for me.

I sort of care about Ala Mhigo, it's been at least sort of on the agenda since the beginning.
Doma came out of nowhere, I don't care about Doma. As far I was aware nothing was left anyway, didn't the Empire essentially flatten it after it rebelled?

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Just to add, the Doma reveal fell flat for me.

I sort of care about Ala Mhigo, it's been at least sort of on the agenda since the beginning.
Doma came out of nowhere, I don't care about Doma. As far I was aware nothing was left anyway, didn't the Empire essentially flatten it after it rebelled?

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Thats one thing thats been bothering me aswell, by the games own words doma got razed to the grounds for rebelling. The rest of Othard looks interesting albeit disconnected. I can not come up with a reason to go there. Really. The plot has been moving towards Ala Mhigo for years now and then the big liberation is snatched before our very eyes? The devs say it will be a 50/50 split between the two, but with how the zones are laid out i have a hard time seeing us spend 50% of the time in the expac in one single zone. Gyr Abania could have ben split with a xelphatol zone and a Paglthan zone. But nope one Gyr Abania is all we get. They managed to put one area, the north western part of Aldenard into four zones yet an equally big area gets one?

Ala Mhigo hype has died down and im dissapointed with that.

I'm stoked for Red Mage! Though I'm bummed theres no new healer job (Still holding onto hopes for Dancer) I'm glad we got a new Magic job! I'm just bummed its a DPS. I do not like DPS ques and am honestly so worried at how que times will be affected, but they claim there won't be much of a change.

I hope May will bring about more news and hype for the game! I also feel like they haven't given us lots of details about things and I'm worried that the changes they are claiming to make aren't going to be as great as they make it sound.

But! I will wait until SB release to say anything about it! I will just continue to grind and prep for Red Mage and look forward to the new story and new places to visit. :)

I'm really excited. I'm in a totally different place game wise than I was going into Heavensward. Back then half the people i got into the game with had stopped playing, it was too late for me to get into Coil, and I was still learning the ropes. Now I have a tight group, I'm BiS and cleared and farmed out the final raid tier, I have my Firebird, so I'm basically feeling on top of things and ready for fresh challenge.

This time around I'll get in for early access then I have the entire week off to dive in, play, level, and my static mates will have the long weekend so we'll be tackling those fresh dungeons and primals together. I've got money saved up for a medium in Shirogane. I'm still going to tank main but I can't wait to see the combat changes. Looking forward to RDM and SAM and seeing how those play.

Overall I'm really positioned well for this expansion and I'm even more excited because of that.

I want to get hyped for stormblood but its falling short. I was so hyped and ready to try the new healer class, and we get none. I get the approach but I am an healer and nothing else. Tanks even get a flying mount, what's in it for healers?

I would also want to know more about the AF gear and relic. I am excited to go to Doma and Ala Mhigo though.

The more I read in this thread, the more I'm beginning to think I'm the only one who has always hated Ala Mhigo and doesn't really have any special desire to go there. The Ala Mhigans have a sympathetic plight, but they have generally not been sympathetic characters. Frankly, I'm kind of hoping the resolution to the Ala Mhigo thing is that the people in Ala Mhigo are genuinely better off under Imperial Rule and choose to stay that way. (And not only because of the threads that would create... though I'd enjoy those too!)

On the other hand, after being teased about the Far East in FFXI for over 10 years and never actually getting there, I'm stoked to see Doma and its related areas. The Domans we've seen have been the polar opposite of Ala Mhigans, plus (as everyone knows) Samurai > Monk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CuteWhisper

I want to get hyped for stormblood but its falling short. I was so hyped and ready to try the new healer class, and we get none. I get the approach but I am an healer and nothing else. Tanks even get a flying mount, what's in it for healers?

I would also want to know more about the AF gear and relic. I am excited to go to Doma and Ala Mhigo though.

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http://www.siliconera.com/2016/10/16...xclusive-gear/

here you go, get hyped for more white

http://www.siliconera.com/wordpress/.../038_thumb.jpg

I like the DRK gear, at least the helmet looks like itll visor this time. Whm and Drk look like theyre inspired by cecil harvey and Risa from 4. Still not hyped though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Talraen

The more I read in this thread, the more I'm beginning to think I'm the only one who has always hated Ala Mhigo and doesn't really have any special desire to go there.

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You're not. I feel the same way. If it weren't for Doma and Red Mage I might've just gotten the expansion just so I could play the one after without rushing through MSQ.

people were hyped for 3.0 because we expected new, exciting content. but all what we got was another tome grind to get gear wich is replaced just a few weeks later.

people are not hyped for 4.0, because they expect nothing more than another tome grind for gear wich will be replaced within weeks.

even the raid scene got disappointed with 3.0. sadly the game has not much to offer beside tome grind and the raid in regards of pve.