So about Yda...

So in the final cutscene with Yda

she reveals that she is not Yda but her little sister and that the real Yda died 6 years ago. But if that's true then does that mean she isn't the same Yda we knew in 1.0? We were in stasis for 5 years between 1.23 and 2.0, there must have been some time between 2.0 and 3.0. And 1.0 to 1.23 was probably longer than a year. So when exactly did the original Yda die? Was it before we met her? During the time we knew her? Or after the calamity?

Maybe it was that one quest with Gaius, before the whole Seventh Umbral Era story arc?

There have yet to be any indications that the Great Time Bubble has been breached, so this revelation likely cleanly severs 1562 Echo Yda from 1.0-Present Yda and had her die offscreen in 1571 (not that they knew that back in the 2010 development cycle, or probably even the 2012 development cycle, lol).

My assumption for the time being is that Lyse was around 9 years old when the Echoes of 1562 were taking place, where we saw true Yda, and around 19 years old when she showed up and punched Gaius van Baelsar in the face wearing her sister's mask during the attempted airship theft in 1.0.

I was wondering the same thing in a Discord just a bit earlier xD
That time-bubble really is the problem here. Are we talking one year pre-calamity for her death? Shortly before the calamity? Or even after the calamity? Did the bubble get expanded, or are we still within one year after the calamity, which wouldn't make any sense? There are, for me, at least three possible points in time when she could have died, and I guess we will never know unless the def team tells us.

Personally I favor a time shortly after the calamity, since I think time-bubbles are bs, to put it frankly. Thus, 1.x characters still knew the real Yda, while 2.0 players never really met her. However, if you rp, you can rp whatever you want, that you knew her, that you didn't, etc. As always in this game.

Yeah the time bubble is annoying when trying to pin events down. I really wish they had just committed to a regular timeline and made each expansion/series take place over a year or something. It is just going to keep getting more confusing here on out, but it is too late to change at this point without rerecording dialogue, which they aren't going to do.

Anyone else caught off-guard by how Lyse seemed to have twice the facial polygon count of the rest of the cast? Goodbye, PS3 support.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

I was wondering the same thing in a Discord just a bit earlier xD
That time-bubble really is the problem here. Are we talking one year pre-calamity for her death? Shortly before the calamity? Or even after the calamity? Did the bubble get expanded, or are we still within one year after the calamity, which wouldn't make any sense? There are, for me, at least three possible points in time when she could have died, and I guess we will never know unless the def team tells us.

Personally I favor a time shortly after the calamity, since I think time-bubbles are bs, to put it frankly. Thus, 1.x characters still knew the real Yda, while 2.0 players never really met her. However, if you rp, you can rp whatever you want, that you knew her, that you didn't, etc. As always in this game.

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I think setting it 6 years ago might hint that maybe a year has passed, if it was 8 years ago or something similar, no one would have questioned it. I think its time to move the bubble on a bit, they don't have to redo all the old dialogue in old quests since all the ARR quests seem to take place in the same timeframe, despite when they're played. (eg - Dragoon storyline during 3.3, still takes place in ARR time). Stormblood should be a clean year, add another year onto the counter, old references from ARR and HW don't matter, because the references happened in ARR/HW time. The bubble is a good idea, but at some point it begins to stretch credibility.

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Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

I think setting it 6 years ago might hint that maybe a year has passed

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My only hang-up on this point is that Yda opens this very story by saying that Ala Mhigo fell twenty years ago.

Until something says Ala Mhigo was twenty-one years ago, or the Calamity was six years ago, or Silvertear was sixteen, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to something as concrete and specific as the bubble, which has survived being questioned dozens of times before.

I might be in the minority there, lol.

I admit also that I find it interesting (No judgement, I promise!) that some people find it more confusing to use the system where the dates don't change, where no adjustments are required, where you can always rely on the same formula.

If it's more than five years past, subtract it from 1577. "Yda died six years ago." [1577 - 6 = 1571]. That entire year was over before 1.0 opened. It feels pretty cut and dry to me if Ala Mhgo still fell twenty years ago.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

My only hang-up on this point is that Yda opens this very story by saying that Ala Mhigo fell twenty years ago.

Until something says Ala Mhigo was twenty-one years ago, or the Calamity was six years ago, or Silvertear was sixteen, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to something as concrete and specific as the bubble, which has survived being questioned dozens of times before.

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"Twenty" might be a rounded number - one could say something happened twenty years ago even if it was actually 19 or 21 years ago.

As someone said in one of the other threads, the lore book offers some hints to support that Yda died prior to the events surrounding the Calamity. After all Lyse said she died in smuggling refugees out and lore book says the Circle of Knowing was trying the same thing just prior to the events leading up to the Calamity and the Garleans caught wind of it and a lot of people died. The timing of the event and Yda's death would strongly suggest that the events mentioned were one and the same.

Can someone explain the 1.X openings for me? On a reddit thread people were saying that you were playing through an Echo vision or something?

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Originally Posted by kuma_aus

Can someone explain the 1.X openings for me? On a reddit thread people were saying that you were playing through an Echo vision or something?

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Basically, the big twist for 1.0 release was that all of the initial story cutscenes you see, actually happened 10 years prior. You were playing the game in the present, but whenever you were in a cutscene you were actually watching the past. It was done in a deliberately subtle fashion (wish a little "woosh" sound effect) so you didn't actually know this was going on at first (I didn't actually put it together till I rewatched them many years later). The cutscenes with the Path of the 12 (Minfillia) were in the present, but, despite seeing and interacting with them in the echo, you never "actually" meet any of the Circle of Knowing (Yda, Papa, Thancred, Y'shotola) until the final launch cutscene at Mor Dhona where they face off with Gaius. Except now it seems the Yda in that final cutscene (and every bit of story content since) isn't Yda.

The twist NOW is that, despite the original Yda being present in 1.0 in the initial Gridania cutscenes, no FFXIV player character has ever actually met her, 1.0 player or not.

I'm wondering if the magick that hid all that hair is the same that's hiding her bust size from the trailer.

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Originally Posted by Torquil

despite seeing and interacting with them in the echo, you never "actually" meet any of the Circle of Knowing (Yda, Papa, Thancred, Y'shotola) until the final launch cutscene at Mor Dhona where they face off with Gaius

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As far as retroactive canon goes, having this be the first moment you actually see Lyse makes me laugh.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0384/Punch.png

"Well, she may not be an Archon like Yda, but she just successfully punched a Legatus in the face. I say she's in."

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

My only hang-up on this point is that Yda opens this very story by saying that Ala Mhigo fell twenty years ago.

Until something says Ala Mhigo was twenty-one years ago, or the Calamity was six years ago, or Silvertear was sixteen, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to something as concrete and specific as the bubble, which has survived being questioned dozens of times before.

I might be in the minority there, lol.

I admit also that I find it interesting (No judgement, I promise!) that some people find it more confusing to use the system where the dates don't change, where no adjustments are required, where you can always rely on the same formula.

If it's more than five years past, subtract it from 1577. "Yda died six years ago." [1577 - 6 = 1571]. That entire year was over before 1.0 opened. It feels pretty cut and dry to me if Ala Mhgo still fell twenty years ago.

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I know I said confusing, but perhaps a better word for it would be disorienting. Judging by how often this topic pops up on the lore forums, I’m guessing that I’m not the only one with this problem.

From a mathematical view point having it remain in the same year in perpetuity does make things simpler, but . . . “time moves forward” is a basic idea. As soon as we start learning language we are taught to break down time into past and future and those into sequential units, into minutes, days, months, years etc. The game’s narrative is consistent with this as well—the Calamity was five years ago, Ala Mhigo was conquered twenty years ago, the Six Umbral Era ended fifteen hundred and seventy-seven years ago, etc. Time is important in Eorzea; the characters are constantly referencing the greater history of the region as well as their own personal history.

Except now with the “time bubble” in place the narrative is contradicting itself and this underpinning concept of time with the arbitrary idea of the bubble. Like the game’s days and weeks (which I don’t find disorientating because no one at Rowena’s ever chides me for not turning in collectibles last week), from the moment you start ARR all time becomes a gameplay mechanic. Moreover, the game’s characters themselves keep reminding me of this narratively inconstant game mechanic every time someone mentions a date. In this, gameplay and the main story are no longer separate. Time isn't moving forward.

No matter what happens in the game it will always be 1 SA. The Bloody Banquet--happened in 1st SA. The Dragonsong War--ended in 1st SA. Omega released--1st SA. No matter how much they mature as characters the twins always be teenagers. Every time a character mentions that it has still been five years since the Calamity, my suspension of disbelief creaks under the weight of all the events have happened in this “year” that is ongoing and will never end.

I know the time bubble is here to stay. Ultimately it is only a small distraction from my enjoyment of the story, but it is a credit to the writing team that they have crafted a fantasy world in an MMO that convinces and engrosses me to that degree. I want to hold FFXIV’s MSQ to standards I normally reserve for single player RPG series or fiction instead of just handwaving everything odd and getting back to killing monsters.

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Originally Posted by Naria

I know I said confusing, but perhaps a better word for it would be disorienting. <snip>

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Big picture, I agree with all of that, to be honest, lol.

I push back against things that haven't been confirmed (like the bubble bursting) because misleading newcomers by leaving assumptions and fanon lying around grinds my gears. But even if the time bubble is a fact, I can absolutely see the point of view, "This has been kind of an unrealistically long and busy year, hasn't it? 20,000 years of band-aids ripped off all in 12 months by the vaunted Warrior of Light, huh?"

I'm on board with that 100%. I just voice disagreement when someone claims that it means something has now changed. It didn't change for Y'mhitra. (Walks to Apkallu falls; Calamity was 5 years ago). It didn't change for Revenant's Toll. (Teleports to Mor Dhona; Silvertear Skies was 15 years ago.) It didn't change for this dude. (Points at PC with leaf above their head; "Hey, leave me out of this." he /tells me.)

But for me, in my head, I too will look back on the story arcs and space them out in my own way however it feels nice. I just won't edit a wiki to reflect it or tell strangers it's factual, lol.

I think your right Anonymoose but this event kind of makes me wish they moved the timeline forward a bit. It starts to feel silly otherwise. Its going to feel more so as time goes on. I mean imagine in 5.0. By that stage we would have become the WoL from a no name adventurer, defeated the Black Wolf and the Ultima Weapon, Formed a company of soldiers, Been betrayed by that company of soldiers, killed probably about 2 dozen primals, gone into exile in Ishgard, gotten exonerated, travelled across Dravania, ended the dragonsong war, seen two settlements built from either ruins or from scratch, watched Ishgard go through major political restructuring, fought the WoD, fought a war with the Garleans, Liberated Ala Mhigo, sailed to Othard, Liberated Doma, tracked down omega, gone to where ever Ivalice is, and god knows what else, all in the space of one year?

Becomes a little unbelievable unless Hydealyn has really long years.

I hope that in at some point in the future they do expand the bubble a little bit, it's the only thing about the story that bugs me. It doesn't bother me with The Simpsons, since the show presses reset at the end of most episodes (except that time Maude died, RIP). But with a game with such a rich story it detracts from it a little bit.

I usually just look back on how FFXI survived being 884 the whole time and then look at the list of WoW, "These Blizzard timelines disagree on..." "If you're [race] at [level]..." "This is unofficial, but..." and I'm like... Ehhh, I can take the bubble, I guess, lol. "Patch = Content Order and Spacing" is easy to follow and I can space it out in my head at the end.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

...god knows what else, all in the space of one year?

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But... but... it's all in day's work for the one and only Warrior of Light! :eek:

Seriously, though, I think it's just a matter of gameplay and story segregation. If I wanted to, there could be so many other things to nitpick, like the apparent prevalence of aetheryte teleportation making long-distance transport effectively obsolete, yet why do people still use chocobo carriages and sailing ships? (I know, I know, that's all about version 1.0 anima, and how that has since been all written away; but that essentially proves my point: A certain amount of suspension of disbelief is needed, otherwise a whole slew of story elements won't play nice together.)

The time bubble exists mainly because players will enter and leave FFXIV's continuity at various points, often multiple times. It would be literally impossible to write lines in advance that would account for all the possible storyline permutations for each player's journey. As such, I'd say the onus is on the player who cares about such things to make the necessary adjustments for his own headcanon.

I mean, as far as I'm concerned, it's been three years and counting, since Lyland Battersea became the Warrior of Light (and eight years since the Calamity). I simply disregard time references in the game that don't line up with this. As far as I'm concerned, this doesn't "break" the lore for me, any more than when my mother insists that the TV couldn't have broken down so soon because it's only a few years old (err... no mum, we bought it at least 10 years ago).

So, with regard to Lyse, I'll just take her word at face value (literally), and assume that, as far as the story is concerned, we the protagonists never actually met the real Yda. The apparent confusion over the counting of years is just a logistical hassle, and an impediment to complicated world building.

It's for good reason that George R.R. Martin specifically refuses to provide any details in his sprawling Song of Ice and Fire saga to pinpoint how large Westeros and Easteros are, and exactly how much time has passed for the characters since the first book. He doesn't want readers to sweat such details — it's tough enough as it is to keep all the other plot details in line.