I'm Gonna Miss Stoneskin

I'm not gonna lie. As a Paladin, it's one of the most distinctive parts of my tanking kit and with the cross-class system going away in 4.0, I'm really gonna miss it.

Yes, I know it's suboptimal for tanking purposes, but the extra mitigation it provides can really be handy in a pinch (especially in advance of a tankbuster). I know a lot of people don't use it or take it, but I do from time to time and I love it.

Don't give up hope. With Provoke, Rampart, Convalescence(possible), and Awareness(possible) moving to the Cross Role Skill list there is a good possibility that the Paladin might get an HP Shield spell as part of the new kit that replaces them.

Shell for magic defense :)

As holy knights, I wouldn't be surprised if they got role abilities for both healers and tanks, in the same way that BLM could be given role abilities for magic users and ranged damage dealers.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

I'm not gonna lie. As a Paladin, it's one of the most distinctive parts of my tanking kit and with the cross-class system going away in 4.0, I'm really gonna miss it.

Yes, I know it's suboptimal for tanking purposes, but the extra mitigation it provides can really be handy in a pinch (especially in advance of a tankbuster). I know a lot of people don't use it or take it, but I do from time to time and I love it.

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In ARR I loved stoneskin with my PLD, it made mitigating tankbusters and mini-tankbusters simple while letting healers spend that cast time doing more damage. For incoming raid-wide damage, helping out getting SS up on everyone was great - not that it was needed but it did make prep faster. With HW, there's not much opportunity for SS on PLD tho. Especially with the meta pushing for moar deeps, any downtime for casting (SS or clemency) hurts PLD's DPS even more. Still, it is pretty much the go-to utility since literally NOTHING else is available (no no no, fracture is not an option - DPS LOSS with pld). Foresight, bloodbath, mercy stroke - Protect .... kinda pointless unless you're trying to help protect someone that died. Cure? Worthless, no potency and no MND. Raise? Worthless, can't cast during battle. Stoneskin - AHA! 10% mitigation as long as you have MP! (This was so much better in ARR - Stoneskin PLDs could out-mitigate IB Wars all day)

I'm kind of hoping that since basically half the role skills are likely coming from gladiator with things like flash, provoke, convalescence and awareness being pretty big parts of the other tanks kits, as well as them confirming that they're taking rampart for role skills, that GLA/PLD will get them replaced with some native spells like a decent low level cure similar to the current cure but using the same healing formula as clemency and a stoneskin and protect equivalent and maybe even our own raise and esuna.

As someone else already pointed out some of GLAD/PLD skills will be thrown in the cross skill group so seeing how they pushed the PLD design in HW I can easily see they adding a protective buff to cast on party or self. Actually I would give PLD one AoE DPS skill as well.

What proof do we have that Stoneskin is going away? I use that spell very often to mitigate hard tank busters like Sephirot's charging fist. Do we have some hard evidence it's going away?

There's no hard evidence, but they are changing the cross class system to role skills. Tanks are going to draw from the tank role skills which likely won't include raise, stoneskin, cure and protect as those are healer skills.

pretty sure they are -replacing- the cross class system with the cross role system. and further proof is not needing to level a secondary class to unlock the job, so if you dont even bother with conjuror but you got a paladin unlocked, yeah so anyway stoneskin would either have to be a cross tank skill(it isnt going to be) or removed as an option. Im even inclined to believe it wont be available for the other 2 healers anymore, but even if it is, its not going to get into the tanks hands. Divine Veil, with some tweaking is basically similar, besides the steroids effect spreading to the party. All theyd have to do is give it an mp cost and not have it disappear when healed.

....I never considered this. Seldom though I use it outside of PvP, I really would be sad to lose Stoneskin ;_;

We actually have no idea what's happening with the battle system in 4.0. It's possible that all tanks get access to stoneskin as a standard action. It'd make sense as it's a tank-style buff that makes you able to take greater damage. Who knows? Let's not panic just yet.

Give pld berserk instead

I myself use Stoneskin during fights as Paladin to supplement my defensive cooldowns so others can help dps and/or prepare for upcoming mechanics.

I too will mourn the loss of Stoneskin from Paladins should it happen in 4.0. Hopefully Paladins will get some worthwhile cross-roles skills to compensate.

Imho it's the single most usefull skill in all the cross-class skills for PLD. Would be a shame indeed if we lost it without something else in return. xP

don't worry, paladin is getting a huge buff next expansion as we all know \o/

I can't wait to see what it is, hopefully lots of new OGCD attacks and abilities to make the class more dynamic. If anything, it'd be cool if it got more AOE abilities or atleast put take away circle of scorns CD and make it consume MP instead. Even though it'd be somewhat similar to dark knight if they do this, it'd still make the class more fun to play, also you gotta remember there are people that play PLD for RP purposes and/or because they just like the aesthetic of paladins sword and shield. I'd take that over stone skin any day.

I'm more worried about the possibility of Summoner losing Resurrection. Similar to how Rampart and Shadowskin are being merged, they could do the same with Raise which then gets made into a healer role skill. Scholar will still have access to it and Summoner will have space freed for new a new ability, but they would lose a pretty useful utility spell. (And to a lesser extent, Paladin as well.)

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

I'm more worried about the possibility of Summoner losing Resurrection. Similar to how Rampart and Shadowskin are being merged, they could do the same with Raise which then gets made into a healer role skill. Scholar will still have access to it and Summoner will have space freed for new a new ability, but they would lose a pretty useful utility spell. (And to a lesser extent, Paladin as well.)

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ive thought the same as well.,, maybe red mage will be built with that in mind. BLM/SMN losing physik not so important but SMN losing Res would be a hard pill to swallow

The dev team aren't averse to just copy/pasting abilities and changing the name. We may lose access to stoneskin, but I hope we'll just get a copy of it back as a native PLD skill.

Well, PLDs in FFXI can cast Phalanx, albeit at a high level. There's a chance we get such a spell in Stormblood.

I don't think we have any solid idea of what is or isn't happening with the cross class system.
I wouldn't worry just yet!

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Originally Posted by Rongway

As holy knights, I wouldn't be surprised if they got role abilities for both healers and tanks, in the same way that BLM could be given role abilities for magic users and ranged damage dealers.

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Paladins are not holy knights in FFXIV, there simply "Knights". Unlike FF4, FFXIV "Paladins" are simply called "Naito" in Japanese, or "Knight". They are simply expert swordsmen that are handpicked from career gladiators, meant to be an elite unit to protect the Royal Family of Uldah. That said, nothing in their lore makes any mention of any holy power. In fact, Holy/Light isn't even an element in XIV.

It's part of their kit, I don't think they'll lose it. If anything, when they do split SMN and SCH, SMN will probably just get "Rebirth Flame" as a reskin to Resurrection. ;)

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

I'm not gonna lie. As a Paladin, it's one of the most distinctive parts of my tanking kit and with the cross-class system going away in 4.0, I'm really gonna miss it.

Yes, I know it's suboptimal for tanking purposes, but the extra mitigation it provides can really be handy in a pinch (especially in advance of a tankbuster). I know a lot of people don't use it or take it, but I do from time to time and I love it.

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I think internal release on warrior is gona have a worse effect on tanks , than pali losing stone skin I can live without stone skin with clemency but ir gives good damage on warrior

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

I'm more worried about the possibility of Summoner losing Resurrection. Similar to how Rampart and Shadowskin are being merged, they could do the same with Raise which then gets made into a healer role skill. Scholar will still have access to it and Summoner will have space freed for new a new ability, but they would lose a pretty useful utility spell. (And to a lesser extent, Paladin as well.)

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how would they lose it if its an anarchist ability and they branch from the same class

Because SE said they were doing away with classes in 5.0, which means SMN and SCH will be split, likely resulting in Arcanist losing Resurrection and Physick, and SCH getting renamed versions of all their ACN spells. Will also result in a slight MND boost, since ACN gets INT boosting traits but SCH doesn't use INT.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Because SE said they were doing away with classes in 5.0, which means SMN and SCH will be split, likely resulting in Arcanist losing Resurrection and Physick, and SCH getting renamed versions of all their ACN spells. Will also result in a slight MND boost, since ACN gets INT boosting traits but SCH doesn't use INT.

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Last I heard they said they 'wouldn't get rid of classes before 5.0' because it would be a lot of work, for not really all that much pay off, they've not said they would definitely remove them as far as I know.

I could certainly see Scholar or Summoner being shifted over to the advanced job pile though and getting a rework of their skills.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Paladins are not holy knights in FFXIV, there simply "Knights". Unlike FF4, FFXIV "Paladins" are simply called "Naito" in Japanese, or "Knight". They are simply expert swordsmen that are handpicked from career gladiators, meant to be an elite unit to protect the Royal Family of Uldah. That said, nothing in their lore makes any mention of any holy power. In fact, Holy/Light isn't even an element in XIV.

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umm Clemency. Divine Veil. they sure are holy. and the npc paladins cast Holy and Holy Blade Dance

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

how would they lose it if its an anarchist ability and they branch from the same class

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Well, what I was saying is that they can remove Resurrection as an Arcanist spell without negatively impacting Scholar because they could still access Raise as a healer role skill. All healers would then access Raise the same way which wouldn't put Scholar at a disadvantage. (I also suspect that the current method of slotting 5 additional actions will be completely reworked.) Stormblood won't bring the removal of classes, but SE doesn't need to wait for that in order to mess with Summoner and Scholar. The introduction of healer role skills provides a way to shift things like Resurrection away from Summoner while ensuring Scholar still has access to an identical spell (Raise).

On topic: Paladin losing Stoneskin is certainly a possibility. If that happens then it would be nice to see Paladin receive something that can achieve a similar effect.

I tend to agree if rampart/shadowskin can be taken off and mixed together as a role skill for all tasnks, its not far fetched to see stoneskin being a cross class and not cross role skill being taken aback. The same could happen to physik/cure and even worse resurrection/raise
losing internal release is a very logical conclusion to me as well, since it fits DPS roles more than tank roles
but given that, id like to see things like keen flurry/featherfoot(would be a bit broken on drk/pld) get added to the tank list, unless theyre just purely going peer to peer with the roles,
we know "Naito"
will be losing provoke/convalesence/rampart/probably awareness giving them room for a stoneskin equivalent

There is a logical reason for pushing roles into strictly just roles, even removing res from smn as was stated before that potentially splitting sch/smn up will allow them to make them much more different feel than in the past from each other.

This slightly homogenizes the roles, and frees up needed skill slots to allow them to create more individual feeling jobs in the three roles in the future. As for SB it may feel like homogenization and making all classes a bit generic feeling may be the result of this unless they do give pld its own stoneskin, and compensate other jobs as well accordingly