Devs! While you're at it, unlock hairstyles and race starting sets too!

I would love to have that Au Ra chestpiece and some of their hairstyles on my Miqote. I don't mind if I have to do a quest to learn more about the significance of these things to the clan, for instance. Gives a little culture to the scene.

Hairstyles I can understand, not so sure about the race starting sets though. Those are heavy into lore, at least the Au Ra versions (my hubby bought the lore book). I don't know if a quest would do it justice.

Yes, please!

Clothes are clothes. There's no good reason one person would be physically incapable of wearing some strappy sandals or a miniskirt or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Sil3ntxR3qui3m

Those are heavy into lore

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What lore, exactly? None is provided. They are aesthetically inspired by a particular race perhaps (though I'm not sure what cultural relevance a schoolgirl outfit has for miqo'te, for example), but I think you'd be hard pressed to prove there's some heavy lore that would make it impossible for other races to wear these things.

Might as well just give all races all face and racial character creation choices to, since no one wants races to have unique things

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Might as well just give all races all face and racial character creation choices to, since no one wants races to have unique things

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Sounds good to me!

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Might as well just give all races all face and racial character creation choices to, since no one wants races to have unique things

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Equating clothes with genetic features... not exactly helping. xD Though I'd also point to the folk who'd like to make mixed-race characters so...!

Yeah devs, let me use au ra voices on roegadyn. And don't forget the au ra eyes, I need to have the perfect look. While you're at it give me miqo'te face markings also.
It's all about the perfect look.

Why do some people believe that everything has to be accessible to everybody? There is absolutely nothing wrong with some gear or hairstyles being exclusive to certain races. This, too, applies to gender based limitations. There needs to be some perks to choosing a particular race over the others; preferably limited to cosmetics only.

Just as a pet peeve...

Hairstyles are not "locked" for any race. There's no checkbox in the code that the devs can go hit that will suddenly make other races able to wear this hair. Whenever they create a hairstyle for another race, the need to recreate it to accommodate that race's specific features, such as Mi'qote cat ears, Au Ra horns, Lalafell handlebar ears, and so on. The same goes for starter gear. It, too, would need to be redesigned for each other race suddenly able to wear it.

Now, job-specific gear - that IS a lock. The only thing preventing a WHM from wearing or glamouring heavy armor is basically a checkbox insisting that they can't.

The amount of dev time required to remove job-specific locks is trivial compared to the effort required to spread race-specific gear and hairstyles to other races. They could likely remove the job-related restrictions in, like, a day, but stubbornly continue to refuse to do so for reasons that escape me. Maybe there's some ridiculous spaghetti code involved...

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Why do some people not agree with me!?

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Because opinions.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

What lore, exactly? None is provided. They are aesthetically inspired by a particular race perhaps (though I'm not sure what cultural relevance a schoolgirl outfit has for miqo'te, for example), but I think you'd be hard pressed to prove there's some heavy lore that would make it impossible for other races to wear these things.

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I'm not saying that it's impossible, it just doesn't seem right imo. "You aren't one of us, but here, take our clothes because you're cool and stuff. Screw tradition and the legacy of our race."

From the lore book:

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Most unique and striking among the traditional dress of the Au Ra are their belts, which feature prominent scale-shaped patterns. Inspired by the hardened skin of the Au Ra themselves, they symbolize health and vitality. While the sleeves appear as if they have been indiscriminately ripped apart, this too is an age-old tradition meant to evoke an air of rugged strength.

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Also I think wearing Lalafell starter clothes would look weird. I am partial to the Elezen one though.

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Originally Posted by Sil3ntxR3qui3m

I'm not saying that it's impossible, it just doesn't seem right imo. "You aren't one of us, but here, take our clothes because you're cool and stuff. Screw tradition and the legacy of our race."

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You know what's really weird? Miqo'te doing an eternal bonding. THAT goes against tradition and legacy of the race, no matter which clan you pick. Similar may apply depending on what Xaela tribe you belong to.
Wearing another races clothes is like wearing a dirndl as non-bavarian - It may seem weird to observers, but nobody really cares.

As if the races in this game aren't homogenized enough.

I thought I recall them saying at fan fest they would, over time, make the older styles available across the races, but were still interested in making unique new styles for each race?

Also for the "homogenized" comment, I said before it would be virtually impossible for all these races to peacefully coexist and not end up sharing aspects of their cultures.

They already said "no" to all hairstyles some time in the last month.

And thankfully at that.

More uniqueness between races is what I'd prefer, not less.

I want to see a male roe wearing lalafell bloomers.

I think they will drawn the line at racial starter sets. Yoshi P already said while they would look to adapt some racially specific haircuts across to other races, they wouldn't do it with all. Hempen sets don't carry much racial aesthetic. However if you start sharing racial Aesthetics with all races it starts to water down the racial identities that actually exist in game and turn it all into one uncharacteristic blob which is bad for world building and immersion in a narrative driven game.

Simply put, they are going to draw the line some where to insure it doesn't negatively effect racial aesthetics and if pushed to make a choice between opening up more or opening up nothing they would probably go for nothing for the sake of world design.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

You know what's really weird? Miqo'te doing an eternal bonding. THAT goes against tradition and legacy of the race, no matter which clan you pick. Similar may apply depending on what Xaela tribe you belong to.
Wearing another races clothes is like wearing a dirndl as non-bavarian - It may seem weird to observers, but nobody really cares.

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This is a little bit of a stretch lol. Hairstyles and starting sets are unique to the classes. I honestly think reserving the hime cut and other race specific styles are okay. Hempen sets, sure. But as the name suggest (miqo'te loincloth, auri harness, etc.) these should stay with their races.

Therefore, @OP, I respectfully decline.

Starter outfits on Au Ra are designed to show off their scales.

I did the math in another thread, but basically each race only has 0.6% (this might be lower now since more gear exists now) of the gear in the game locked to their race (the starter set and the hempen)

Well they already said they are talking about removing the hempen restrictions so it probably drops that to 0.4%

Do we really have to make it 0%?

Seriously there should be some distinguishing clothes/hair etc between races...even if just a little bit, stop trying to make it 0%

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Now, job-specific gear - that IS a lock. The only thing preventing a WHM from wearing or glamouring heavy armor is basically a checkbox insisting that they can't

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Huh. The last time I brought up something similar to this like this on the OTHER side of the fence (how dare I assume things aren't simple lines of code), I had several people calling me wrong because "I'm not a dev and don't have access to or knowledge of the code" and demanded proof that I did. which in and of itself totally isn't hypocrisy, so ...Would it be fair if I requested the same from you?


I'm not even sure I can agree that most people WANT casters/healers in heavy plate right now. The chance people get to pitch that idea in a contest and everyone goes for the same flowing robes, sashes, dresses, etc. I didn't really see a whole lot of "armor" lookin' stuff.

But I digress.


I'm generally on the side of "just because we can doesn't mean we should." While Lore might be a "pitiful shield" for such things, I do feel Aesthetics should very much be upheld. After all, Aesthetics are what separate classes. Strip away the particle effects and potency of abilities, and SMN is a BLM with a pet. MCH is a BRD with turrets instead of songs. It's not until we give them more defining abilities and aesthetics that they become their own thing*.

The Aesthetics that separate races right now are starting clothes, idles, facial features, voices, and select hairstyles. I would argue that starting clothes (the things new players see/have to use) are pretty integral to a race's aethetics. it's literally the clothes of the race.

There have been arguments made before that job-restricted items can be previewed on any class. If we were to give this argument consideration, then I must bring up the fact that you can't preview the racial clothes on different races.



*This is a very large over-generalization for the purpose of discussion. Obviously classes arent all copied from eachother.

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Originally Posted by Sil3ntxR3qui3m

I'm not saying that it's impossible, it just doesn't seem right imo. "You aren't one of us, but here, take our clothes because you're cool and stuff. Screw tradition and the legacy of our race."

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I would challenge you to explain how any of the non-Au Ra outfits are in any way beholden to lore. They're just aesthetic. And in some cases (see: miqo'te schoolgirl outfit), really horribly fanservicey aesthetic.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I would challenge you to explain how any of the non-Au Ra outfits are in any way beholden to lore. They're just aesthetic. And in some cases (see: miqo'te schoolgirl outfit), really horribly fanservicey aesthetic.

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Hairstyles are just asethetic, as are all of the faces, and the voices. In fact, the entirety of every race can be shoveled into "Its just an aesthetic"

There is actually some lore, albeit a very small amount of lore, for the starter sets for each race in the lorebook. It's about the style of clothing each of the races prefers, which describes the starter sets for each race. It doesn't mean that it should keep the races from wearing each other's sets, but I do like the uniqueness of the races, even down to the clothing.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I would challenge you to explain how any of the non-Au Ra outfits are in any way beholden to lore. They're just aesthetic. And in some cases (see: miqo'te schoolgirl outfit), really horribly fanservicey aesthetic.

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I doubt they are. I'm not arguing that. What I mean is what other people have said though, that they are unique to the race and I believe they should stay that way.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Why do some people believe that everything has to be accessible to everybody? There is absolutely nothing wrong with some gear or hairstyles being exclusive to certain races. This, too, applies to gender based limitations. There needs to be some perks to choosing a particular race over the others; preferably limited to cosmetics only.

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i am all for race uniqueness, no matter it is cosmetic or perks

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I would challenge you to explain how any of the non-Au Ra outfits are in any way beholden to lore. They're just aesthetic. And in some cases (see: miqo'te schoolgirl outfit), really horribly fanservicey aesthetic.

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Aesthetics are important. If there weren't then there would be no point in having different races in the first place. Aesthetics define character and themes of both races, locations and groups. It's what gives them depth and identity. Remove them and the game world becomes a lot more shallow.

This might seem a strange thing to bring up about the starter sets but the issue becomes where do you draw a line. While it might seem a minor aesthetic the starter sets do identify with the individual races far more than the Hempen sets ever have.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Why do some people believe that everything has to be accessible to everybody? There is absolutely nothing wrong with some gear or hairstyles being exclusive to certain races. This, too, applies to gender based limitations. There needs to be some perks to choosing a particular race over the others; preferably limited to cosmetics only.

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Except for the fact that it makes no sense unless there's some arcane magic stopping people from asking the hairdresser to make their hair a certain way and clothes suddenly evaporate when people try to wear them.

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Originally Posted by Ririta

Except for the fact that it makes no sense unless there's some arcane magic stopping people from asking the hairdresser to make their hair a certain way and clothes suddenly evaporate when people try to wear them.

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In that case, theres no arcane magic stopping people from using contacts, or having facepaint from other races, or plastic surgery horns, or ears, or any of the other racial features. Might as well just make every racial aspect a glamour item and only have Hyurs.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Hairstyles are just asethetic, as are all of the faces, and the voices. In fact, the entirety of every race can be shoveled into "Its just an aesthetic"

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A face (and to an extent, voice) is not aesthetics. It's genetics. Hairstyles though, yes, are aesthetic.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

In that case, theres no arcane magic stopping people from using contacts, or having facepaint from other races, or plastic surgery horns, or ears, or any of the other racial features. Might as well just make every racial aspect a glamour item and only have Hyurs.

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Extending an argument out to absurdity is not a good way to have a debate.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

A face (and to an extent, voice) is not aesthetics. It's genetics. Hairstyles though, yes, are aesthetic.



Extending an argument out to absurdity is not a good way to have a debate.

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Its not really a debate though. You think anything thats not the race itself shouldn't be bound to a race, and lore or dev design isnt enough to make you change your mind.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I think they will drawn the line at racial starter sets. Yoshi P already said while they would look to adapt some racially specific haircuts across to other races, they wouldn't do it with all. Hempen sets don't carry much racial aesthetic. However if you start sharing racial Aesthetics with all races it starts to water down the racial identities that actually exist in game and turn it all into one uncharacteristic blob which is bad for world building and immersion in a narrative driven game.

Simply put, they are going to draw the line some where to insure it doesn't negatively effect racial aesthetics and if pushed to make a choice between opening up more or opening up nothing they would probably go for nothing for the sake of world design.

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The excuse we got about preserving some racial aesthetics rings hollow to me. Mainly because they already totally blew it on that front in the biggest way possible.

http://i.imgur.com/APVrGhN.jpg
In FFXI, face and hair were tied together, and the most popular face for mithra was face 6. It should look familiar.
http://i.imgur.com/AHWOZef.png
It's been in FFXIV since the beginning of 1.0 and used in promotional artwork for 2.0. I may be biased, since it was my hairstyle in FFXI and 1.0 and 2.0 and most of 3.0 until about a year ago, but I would say that it's the most iconic hairstyle in Final Fantasy MMO history. Even if you don't think so, you can probably agree that it is at least a very unique hairstyle.

But SE apparently didn't think it was part of the Final Fantasy catgirl aesthetic, despite a decade of being the epitome of exactly that. And I don't even remember seeing any other races asking to have that specific hairstyle.


http://i.imgur.com/vNoitGX.jpg

Unforgivable.


So, I may be in favor of giving everyone any hair at least partly out of spite. My race specific hair was taken, so why should anyone else get to keep theirs?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

In that case, theres no arcane magic stopping people from using contacts, or having facepaint from other races, or plastic surgery horns, or ears, or any of the other racial features. Might as well just make every racial aspect a glamour item and only have Hyurs.

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This argument is both self defeating and illogical. There is nothing stopping others races borrowing aesthetics from different cultures. Clothing and hairstyle simply have a greater significance to where they originated. Attempting to include actual physical features like horns or ears makes no sense. Translate that to its real life equivalent and... well, I doubt we need to go further on its absurdity. On the other hand, the same cannot be said of clothing or hairstyles.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

This argument is both self defeating and illogical. There is nothing stopping others races borrowing aesthetics from different cultures. Clothing and hairstyle simply have a greater significance to where they originated. Attempting to include actual physical features like horns or ears makes no sense. Translate that to its real life equivalent and... well, I doubt we need to go further on its absurdity. On the other hand, the same cannot be said of clothing or hairstyles.

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Except this very same forum threw a fit over the native american like garb.

The "theres no arcane magic" excuse is in itself ridiculous, therefore, any other excuse is valid :P We have very little in this game that sets races apart as it is. I think they should add more, not take away what we have. and people get plastic surgery or wear contacts with different pupil effects all the time. I also see tons of cat/dog ear hairbands and tails.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Except this very same forum threw a fit over the native american like garb.

The "theres no arcane magic" excuse is in itself ridiculous, therefore, any other excuse is valid :P We have very little in this game that sets races apart as it is. I think they should add more, not take away what we have. and people get plastic surgery or wear contacts with different pupil effects all the time. I also see tons of cat/dog ear hairbands and tails.

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Actually, tumblr did. This forum basically slammed the person complaining about that outfit and near virtually vilified her. In fact, I've never seen it so united against one topic.

But your rebuttal isn't a comparison for the reasons stated. Looking to real life equivalents, we see different cultures borrow clothing and hairstyle choices constantly. Those are not unique attributes because we all wear clothes and have hair. Therefore, we can, and do, change our aesthetic often based only on preference. Some people may find it offensive or whine ala the native american garb but that doesn't stop us from doing it. Physical characteristics differ. I don't care one way or another about race locking some gear but let's not pretend it's some big deal.

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Originally Posted by Sil3ntxR3qui3m

Hairstyles I can understand, not so sure about the race starting sets though. Those are heavy into lore, at least the Au Ra versions (my hubby bought the lore book). I don't know if a quest would do it justice.

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Is there lore behind a Miqote bursting into flames upon putting on Elezen inspired clothing?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Except this very same forum threw a fit over the native american like garb.

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No that lady threw a fit and made a topic. What happened when the patch released? Nothing. No complaints. Everyone lived on normally.

And I'm sure if haircuts and styles were unlocked it would be the exact same as then. They'll be unlocked, people will get upset, patch will release, they stay subbed, everyone will be quiet.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...rUkYpGXZmWm8b8

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Why do some people believe that everything has to be accessible to everybody? There is absolutely nothing wrong with some gear or hairstyles being exclusive to certain races. This, too, applies to gender based limitations. There needs to be some perks to choosing a particular race over the others; preferably limited to cosmetics only.

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Well, we already have size/appearance difference to make thing unique. I don't see you being able to buy another races' clothing later in the game much of a problem.

I mean whatevee gets me closer to Lalaqote really.

I can understand them locking some things, and I'll even buy that clothes need to be segmented. I just really like that torn sash with the spikes.

I mean, hell, we can already dress up as Gnath and Vundu.